Women Bishop
 

Do anyone know of any organization among us ordaining women to be Bishop? I heard some disturbing news today.

Re: Women Bishop
 

I'm sure there are some

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Several do it in Brazil...

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What are you disturbed about?

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that is what I was wanting to know too...

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Women bishops, maybe?

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Or that lack of them perhaps? I find that disturbing :)

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Maybe it's this bit-o-scripture concerning the gender of bishops....

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Of course same sex marriages could possibly be a workaround in this instance with two women in a marriage with one the 'husband' and the other the 'wife'. I guess then that a bishop could be a female and the 'husband' of one 'wife'.

:dunno

Re: Women Bishop
 

Stupid post.

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Look, I'm just trying to get by with something scripture is against!!

Re: Women Bishop
 

I don't personally agree with it. But the P.A.W. has no official stance against the ordination of women Bishops and currently has a few ordained Suffragan Bishops, including one in New York, Bishop Eulah Nelson. I believe the organization is open to ordaining women Diocesan Bishops.

Re: Women Bishop
 

Completely lame.

Get a better bible translation for starters.

This argument is laughable considering how much of the Apostolic movement was built on the works of women preachers. Every Oneness org. still ordains women. God has moved mightily in churches pastored by women and great preachers (men) were raised up from those churches.

Explain that...

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COOLJC (Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ) does not. I believe they ordain women missionaries, but not Missionaries in the actual sense that they do "missionary" work, they basically sit in the front of the church with big church hats and lead prayer. Women are not aloud to preach or teach from my understanding and must wear headcoverings. In some churches they can't even stand on the pulpit to do announcements or sing (which I think is stupid and a tradition coming from the old school COGIC churches).

I am fine with women preaching and teaching. I perfer that men pastor churches however. Generally speaking I believe the scripture supports that role being male-oriented. If there is a lack of willing or able-bodied men I understand, I just personally believe the scriptures suggest that the role of a pastor in the church is similar to the role of the father in the home. Just as I perfer there to be a man in a home raising children, but understand there are certain circumstances where women have to raise their children single. I don't believe this to be desirable though. I'm careful not to say that women can't pastor, I just perfer that role be reserved for men when possible (and also perferably men with one wife and children having their home in order as the scripture teaches).

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God is graceful? Even moves under pastor living in sin. Amazing.

Re: Women Bishop
 

1 Tim 3
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I believe the emboldened supports the idea that the role of a church overseer should be male. Apparently, one that has a family is what Paul is SUGGESTING because having experience in leading his home would aid him in leading the church.

But we also know that women CAN and DO prophesy
1 Cor 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

So would prophesying NOT include teaching in the assembly of believers?

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I have listened to some women preachers, and they were excellent. Their styles and methods were different than those of men, but they were as anointed. I just wish that more people would acknowledge that women who are called are as called as men. (In the WPF, we are fully accepting of women preachers.

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Do they accept women bishops/pastors?

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Men preach in their air conditioned churches and condemn women preachers to hell.

Some men make exceptions for the likes of Janice Alvear who as a young girl answered the call to leave the comforts of her homeland for Brazil, to preach the gospel to witches, idol worshipers, and indiginous people.

It's all fine. We call them missionaries, an office that is not named with the 4 fold ministry. Let's dismiss the fact that they are ministering in the spirit of the Apostles.

Mãe Alvear, thank you for answering the call that many men refuse!

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I second that.

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I always think of Oma Ellis when I hear a Pentecostal man rale against women preachers. She was a church planter for decades where there were no Oneness churches. When God raised up a man to pastor that church she knew her work was done and would quietly move on, never attempting to keep for herself what was the Lord's.

I love the idea of men as pastors. I agree completely with truthseeker in seeing the role being best suited to a man and I love the way it was expressed in that post. But a family can also be headed by a good woman and so can a church when God is in it. Given the choice of a strong anointed woman or a weak carnal man, I'll take the girl :)

I did not have any girls but my granddaughters will be raised knowing there is nothing they can not do for the Lord with His mighty hand on their lives, including preach.

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I believe these scriptures pertained to the time period they were written in. It was a time when men were one thing, and women were another, and there was no in betweens. We don't live in those times anymore. There are now women who work, and men who are stay at home dads. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it at the time forbidden for women to speak in a church? We don't go by that anymore, do we? It was simply customs of the times, and we are living in a world where women aren't as...uh what's the word...subjectified maybe? as they used to be.

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I'm not exactly sure, Matt. Paul's argument is that Eve was deceived...

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Exactly.

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What I find in my studies is that bible history is so rich and there are so many nuances that can slip right by us. It is not always easy to know what someone meant just by what they said. One of the best and worst things that ever happened to the bible was the 'arrangement' of it for study. It is not chronologic or even put together by subjects but many of the books are simply put in the order of longest to shortest. Chapters and sentences are numbered. Teaching is often done by picking a sentence from here and one from there and using them to prove a point that was determined before the bible was ever consulted. :)

The history of biblical times was as complicated as our own. We can not compare the social customs of an amazon rainforest tribe to those of a middle class family in the US. In Jesus time there were Jews, Roman, Greeks and others living in cities. Their interactions were complicated and there cultural norms varried. Also most history is about the elite, the bible is one of the very few texts that gives us a glimpse into common life.

What I look at in trying to decide Jesus' or Pauls feelings about women ministers/teachers/preachers is how they acted toward women engaged in these activities. I find that both accepted and even encouraged women in ministeral roles. Jesus accepted women ministering to him personally. Paul called them his fellow laborers as if they were equals.

Now that we see preachers and bishops as positions of power rather than as servants of the flock we feel that these positions should go to men as most postions of power traditionally do in our society. When we again view those who are preachers/pastors/bishops as servents to those around them, as not only the strong but also those who have a tender heart senstive to God's leading, we will see that women are equally equipped to serve in these roles.

You can take all the 'verses' you want to and stack that up against those facts but it really won't change them.

Peace.

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Which bible translation is acceptable to you?

The problem is with folks picking and choosing from the bible, explaining away scripture that's a plain as day. The bible says a Bishop must be the husband of one wife. Now, if folks want "husband" to = a male, then women cannot be Bishops. End of story.

Re: Women Bishop
 

Absolutely.

Again I'm not saying women can't preach or teach. From my understanding COOLJC does have a problem with that, correct me if I'm wrong TGBTG. I'm PAW and I know and have listen to many women preachers and teachers. However I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of women PASTORS because from what I see in the scriptures a key requirement for a Pastor is that they must be able to oversee a good home. We know according to the scripture the man is the head of the household in the same way the pastor is the head of the church. I would therefore assume that it is perferred men take the role of head of the church.

Re: Women Bishop
 

There still is a standard in the home however. Society may have changed when it comes to the education of women which I understand... and that's a perfect argument for women preachers. THERE WAS a time when women couldn't preach and teach in the church, but most women at that time were uneducated. That's not the case in this day and age, and I don't see a problem with women preaching.

However, when it comes to the role of the pastor, it is compared to the role of the father in the home.

When we are look for an individual who is qualified to be a Pastor through God's eyes we are looking for someone who rules their house well. Then the reasoning is given if a man can't rule his home how can he take care of the house of God?


My question is, society has changed in regards to women's education, rights, etc, but has God's gender roles changed in the home? Are men still the head of the home? (I believe so). If so shouldn't then men be perferred in positions of leadership in the church? (I believe so).

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I still say that has to do with the times and customs. Take a single mother for example, something I'm sure wouldn't have been done in those times. Though emotions may be different, when put in that position some women make wonderful heads of the household.

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One that was not written with the intent of supressing the laity or in making women appear the downfall of man. Try The Christian Bible maybe... but I am sure there are some others.


Literalism and Legalism are joyless

“The letter kills, it is the spirit that gives life” (2Cor. 3:6) :)

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But then who are we supposed to blame for all our troubles?

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I dunno Matt... do we really need a scapegoat?

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Ahhh and therein lies the crux... I don't believe that there is a 'house of God' in the same sense that you do or that 'pastors' or 'preachers' are "preferred positions" in the church. I believe that the church (called out believers) gather together, that preachers are simply people who has been given a word from God to be shared with the group and that pastors are shepherds, caretakers, or servants of the people. Those with wisdom and age who have life experience and are able to be spiritual examples and guides through the power of the holy ghost. Man or woman they need for their own homes to be in order so that they are not a distraction to themselves or to thoses who would look to them as an example. As part of that they should not be divorced and remarried as that is always a messy situation and a distraction. Therefore the spouse of one only. I believe that today women can and do fill that rold as completely as men. And God smiles :)

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YES! :heeheehee

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The WOMAN was deceived, not the man.

The NAGGING WOMAN caused the man to sin. He got tired of hearing her, so he caved.

That's BIBLE! I just don't know what is culture or edict, so I am somewhere in the middle.

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Must be nice if you don't like scripture that's against your belief to just write it off as customs of tthat day.

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According to my parent who were there when these questions were discussed, this issue was mentioned, and all heads swiveled as the men handed the question to Bro. Booker whose church in Rialto was founded and pastored by a lady. While they did not say no, they did not issue a ringing endorsement of the practice. I do not believe that there will be many ladies who will pastor churches in the WPF.

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Yes it's very nice to understand what is history, what is law, what is grace, what is God's love and mercy. There is a great commision, we are to fulfill it. The kingdom is a big place and is spirtually and culturally broader than most of us can imagine. We make our plans and our niches and our comfort zones and God laughs :) I'm pretty sure you can find that written somewhere.

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It's hard to take that scripture as anything but that when in a church full of people being used in the gifts, miracles happen, good humble people with plenty of if not all of the fruits, all under the authority of a woman. But I guess I can be guilty of having a biased view. It cuts me for a flip when people don't take other scriptures that I can see myself as being meant to be taken literal in their way, but I don't try to discourage them in believing that way. I state how I believe, and that's it.

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What is the problem? Scripture is very very plan concerning bishops and women. Women are NOT to be bishops, bishops are to be HUSBANDS of one wife.

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Or the wife of one husband (not a polygamist or a divorced and remarried person). Most things addressed to people were addressed to men for ease of language. It is still done today. Please tell me that you do not believe that because I am female I can ignore all of the things that the bible says are applicable to 'man'.