The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

"Marriage has become a luxury good" socialologist says. Below is a link to a New York Times article about how the new normal is for children to be born out of wedlock.

I think it is clear that the breakdown of traditional societal norms has been accelerating at an incredible rate the last 20 years. This is just one more confirmation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46438194.../#.Tz-5ZPFQ6Ag

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

It's absolutely frightening. To say the least. What type of future are we presenting to this generation of children born with no respect for the institution of marriage and no real concept of what it truly is? This is why public opinion of "gay marriage" is leaning a certain way, becuase this generation has no regard for the institution of marriage... and why would they?

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

And a lot times we got to pick up the tab.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Hard to see sometimes that wheat is growing also, in the tares. We can't pull tares--well, you can try--we are called to grow wheat.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I'm not getting what your getting at????

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I think that he getting at that rather than try to conform the world to our way of thinking and doing it by force we should be growing the kingdom (sorry byrd if I missed).

There are godly people out there doing the right thing... they may seem few but they have the potential to multiply.

We often try to legislate behavior, in example: refusing same sex marriage to gay couples or insisting that people get married if they are going to have children... But what we are missing is that without the spirit there is no reason they SHOULD be wanting to do the right thing. Our job is not to conform the lost to our way of thinking/acting/being but to help them know the God that will change their hearts/minds/lives.

The only way we will see a world that looks like the Kingdom is to expand the Kingdom, one soul at a time :)

The church has failed to really impact society. It's become a business. We need a Revival. No,...a Reformation. My prayer is for this prophecy to come true in our lifetimes,

"The earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." Habakkuk 2:14 (NKJV)

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

:)

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

:thumbsup

That's why I'm not a big fan of Christians being political activists. While I do believe that we should do our best to protect society as a whole from impinging evils, legislating righteousness will not actually bring about righteousness, and often has the opposite effect. People who try to impose righteousness upon themselves without the spirit of God are fighting a losing battle with their own humanity.

Far too often, the Christian who involves himself deeply in politics becomes Peter with a maiming sword rather than a positive, persuasive voice in a dark world.

Behold the glory of the LORD,

Psalm 22:27-28 ESV
All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before you.
For kingship belongs to the Lord,
and he rules over the nations.

Sometimes our vision and eschatology is so bleak and negative, it leaves us hopeless for such a revival.

Legislation will either be righteous or unrighteous. A government by the people for the people will reflect the righteousness or unrighteous of the people. Society is programming our children to embrace godlessness and perversion...and reject the faith and core religious teachings of their fathers and mothers.

The church must begin to believe again.

Father, we pray for a Reformation.

Isaiah 61:11 ESV
For as the earth brings forth its sprouts,
and as a garden causes what is sown in it to sprout up,
so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise
to sprout up before all the nations.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I understand what you are saying but I think it is all in how you go about it. If you have an unchristian attitude in political activism then it is in vain and counter productive.

However if you advocate for good policies, legislation, and canidates who support the same in the right manner I believe you are fulfilling your Christian duty to do what you can to make things the best they can be.

For example if we don't stand up for freedom of religion we will have no one to blame but ourselves when the government starts controlling our churches by limiting freedom of speech there ,etc. We just have to do it in the right way!

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I would still prefer to live under gov that has some morals and thought for right living.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Agree! Like all things, it's about the heart. :)

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I agree with you on principle. A friend of mine posted this video link, which is well worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI

However, in my experience, even with good intentions we are ultimately still human, and often our best intentions do more harm than good.

For the record, I don't recall any scripture that makes it our Christian duty to be involved in politics. These are the things I believe we should focus on:

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

and

Acts 2:40-47 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers....they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

In direct regard to politics and government, this is the passage I believe we should live by, to the best of our ability:

Romans 13:1-7

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honor.

Bottom Line: As citizens we have certain obligations, but as Christians we have greater obligations. When the two conflict, the principles of Christianity need to win out. Our job is to change the world one person at a time from the inside out. Environmental changes are important, but they pale in comparison.

I believe our job is to affect society in any way possible except violence. Waging war against blatant evil, Hitler for example, the only debatable exception.

Society has really suffered as a result of the church retreating into a spiritual malaise.

America used to be a beacon of Christian culture. This was the source of our former glory.

Proverbs 14:34 ESV
Righteousness exalts a nation,
but sin is a reproach to any people.

Proverbs 29:2 ESV
When the righteous increase, the people rejoice,
but when the wicked rule, the people groan.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

This new mindset makes it hard for couples like my daughter and husband, who are trying to adopt. It's just so common now for unwed mothers to keep their babies, even if they're very young. It's the cool thing to do now.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Especially since us taxpayers are forced pay for. If you know you don't have to pay for it then makes having babies less of a burden to avoid.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

It is really hard to blame young women who want a chance at raising their own children, no matter how young or unprepared they were for the pregnancy, when there are 1.3 million elective terminations every year.

I would say that those babies who are never born are a much bigger reason that there are not infants for adoption.

You might want to mention to your daughter that there are tens of thousands of children available for adoption over the age of five. With those who have been freed for adoption with CPS there are no fees, opposed to the $5K to $40K for the private adoption of an infant.

We are planing to adopt a sibling group and not only will we pay nothing but also will get free medical for them until they are 18.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Aquila, despite our different views about Christmas, you and I have more in common than we disagree upon.

I don't find too many people who agree that many, but not all churches become professional businesses rather than emissaries and servants of God.

What is more frightening to me is that there are children and grandchildren of ministers having babies out of wedlock, then getting married 6 months to a year later. Everybody else in the church system gets sat down, but their mantra is to let us forgive and forget... when it is one of their own.

If it is wrong for other people to live this way, it is wrong for the ministry's children to live this way likewise. And if the little boys and girls in the church cannot contain, how then is the church going to be an effective witness to the lost?

I agree. Sadly, morality, faith, and family are under serious attack. And this does affect the church. Our sons and daughters are going to grow up in the society that godless social engineers are constructing. There is a very dark future ahead of us. But I am having faith that there will be a breaking point wherein God will send a spiritual awakening that will ignite a spiritual revolution. But it will call for some "John the Baptists" raising their voices in the streets, parks, and ghettos... not fancy pants preachers behind polished pulpits. It WILL bring unrest. But the glory of God will burst forth as the rising sun when it chases away the darkness of a stormy night.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I guess one would consider Pauls eschatology to be bleak and negative.

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come . 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2 Timothy 3:1-4

He did not paint a rosy picture of the end times. Yet he still believed we should continue to preach the gospel.

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove , rebuke , exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Tim. 4:1

The Earth will be filled with the glory of YHWH. All nations shall bow before him.

John tells us when this will happen.

15 And the seventh angel sounded ; and there were great voices in heaven, saying , The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying , We give thee thanks , O Lord God Almighty, which art , and wast , and art to come ; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned . 18 And the nations were angry , and thy wrath is come , and the time of the dead, that they should be judged , and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev. 11:15-18

Until then preach the good news to those who will hear it. Preach judgment that every man be warned of the fate of the wicked.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

The spirit of whoredoms has filled the land and thats the way most Americans like it. The coming judgment thereof will be horrific.

That's what we need.

We are not in this war alone...

Revelation 19:11-16 ESV
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

The Word of God has been riding forward in war against His enemies since His visitation against Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Only in a spiritual sense. The great tribulation and mark of the beast appears 6 chapters before the Logos comes in glory. We dont want anyone getting confused.

What if Futurism is indeed mistaken, and we are adopting a pessimistic view of the Kingdom? The very same spirit of antichrist was in the emperors of Rome, Popes, Mohammed, Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Mao,...and Christ crushed them all. People who sell their souls to this worlds system are just as marked as those in the theoretical future under a theoretical antichrist. We are losing our culture to Satan's kingdom. This is a very real and spiritual war between two kingdoms. As long as we expect and embrace defeat, that's what we will get. And our children will pay the highest price...their eternal souls.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

:thumbsup

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I do not have pessimistic view of THE KINGDOM. My view of scripture is that FEW will be saved. Why? Because Jesus said so. Few among many. I still witness Christ to unbelievers on the streets of my town and elsewhere. I teach overcoming for all Christians. I dont expect defeat for the Spirit filled Christian. I do not expect that most people in the nations will be saved. If I did I would be doubting what the Saviour taught.

The modern Church has little effect on the culture around us because they teach a false gospel of unconditional love along with the deady teaching we need do nothing in order to be saved except "believe". They teach men they need not be sanctified only "justified" to enter the kingdom of YHWH and escape his wrath.

I am not convinced that a majority of all who have been born will be saved. However, I'm also not convinced that the church will be a weak minority either. Some theologians believe in a coming global awakening or revival just prior to the second coming.

For example, the church has never been a majority in America. However, her affect on society led to America having essentially a Christian culture. We were founded on Christian principles of a God given freedom. This Christian affected culture has been under heavy assault within the past two generations. It happened once by the grace of God. It can happen again.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Aquila,

Can you please show me at what point in American history you believe that people lived as a 'Christian culture'? Please give a date range and why you believe it was so. I have combed our history pretty thoroughly and find the idea that we are a 'Christian nation' or are founded on 'Christian principles' or have ever lived as a 'Christian nation' to be complete fallacies.

Many/most of our founding fathers were in fact Masons and set up our government on the principles of those beliefs, not the beliefs of the bible. Some also claimed a brand of Christianity while others were openly atheist.

We have always had large pockets of immorally living people in the US and continue to do so today. I will not deny that in some ways these people are not more flagrant and vulgar then in days past but I am convinced that most of this is simply a more complete exposure. We now know of every crime that goes on nation wide brought to us in 30 second snippets by our nightly news. People in the past were confined to knowledge of what went on in their own neighborhoods.

Let me give you one small example: I believe that in my generation just as many young girls were molested by relatives as are today. However those things were kept quiet by immediate and even extended family because of shame and even teachers and school officials looked away not wanting to get involved in a family's 'business'. Today there are reporting laws that place responsibility on those who fail to report, leading to more reporting (not more molesting). So now it appears that there is more incest when actually the numbers have not changed, just our ability to count and document them.

I think we can extend this method over all criminal activity pretty much and when adjusted for population our society has not changed much over generations but I hear from people every day that this day is worse than days before.

I wanted to add: I am asking this question of you because you seem to be quite capable of defending your views and I find this a common view. If it has a base I'd sure like to know what it is as I've not been able to uncover the 'Christian Nation' in our history. But if anyone else would like to chime in that would be great too. :)

Thanks.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Sure thing.

Titus2woman, what I’m talking about is “culture”. I know that atheists and sin has always been among us. I know that various sins that were rarely discussed in the open are now discussed and/or reported openly. I know that this can give the illusion that sin is more prevalent. However, my point is that our “culture” was Christian. The very reason why such things were not spoken of openly was because of the social condemnation that would come about in our culture. Nearly 100 years ago our society would be aghast at the notion of the majority of children being born out of wedlock. Why? Christian values in culture. While homosexuality has always been with us, it would have been unthinkable for society to embrace “gay marriage”. In fact, laws were written in many states that even condemned homosexual activity among individuals in the privacy of their own homes…the notion of gay marriage would have been thrown out instantly without debate. Why? Christian culture. To make abortion legal throughout the United States a case had to be taken to the Supreme Court. Why? Because of Christian culture. We used to value the discipline of our children. Grandparents and great grandparents can testify of a time when dad could tell them to go pick a “switch” out of the backyard and punish them with it. Today that would be ruled as “child abuse”… yet their generation was by far more respectful, law abiding, and grounded in traditional values than subsequent generations. Why was this? Because of Christian culture.

The church RETREATED and became ascetic in the Fundamentalist quest for “holiness”. In abandoning the ranks of society to become “pure” we surrendered society to the onslaught of wicked and godless social engineers. If we do not engage the fight feverishly with a righteous rage against evil our children will grow up in a society that values and celebrates married gays, shacked up straights, the right to murder one’s unborn child without discretion, child molestation defined as “love” or “experimentation”, and total moral chaos. I read an article that explained that even in Canada courts are challenging home schooling parents because they are not in the system because of their religious beliefs. Statism reigns. The notion of “God given rights” has gone out the window and now the STATE is the final arbitrator of man’s rights and morality. This is happening because the church worldwide has failed to take a fierce stand against these evils. Church has become merely a place to go to hear spiritually inspiring and self-serving messages that tickle our itching ears and aching consciences. The church has become a business wherein too many “men of God” have become idol shepherds who feed themselves on the flock. Our vision has gone from Kingdom...to campuses. The church has failed in these last two generations. But I haven’t given up on her. I believe she will grow outside the walls of the religious institutions of our day. We will become a mountain that fills all the earth.

My son is five years old. I’m terrified at the world he’s growing up in and will inherit if we don’t take a stand and turn things around. We NEED a national revival, a national spiritual awakening, a REFORMATION that will rock the foundations of our society. And only GOD can do this. I fear it will take knocking America to her knees to do so. In order for this to take place…there must be a significant collapse of our society. There has to be a danger so great that it demands a fundamental change in thinking to survive. An event that will leave the next two generations having conversations about how grandpa and grandma survived “the fall of America” and all the trials that followed. How they stood with men and women to re-stabilize and bring peace. How they struggled and worked to rebuild and gain all that they have. Conversations much like those had with those who survived the Great Depression and WWII veterans. All the opinion pieces, articles, and sermons in the world will not turn the tide. This will take the hand of God. And we need to realize that such an event would be for our benefit, not our hurt.

I also feel that in a lot of ways our pessimistic view of the future has contributed to this. I mean...why not retreat to our monastic congregations wherein we separate ourselves from society to stay "pure" if we think we have no hope of making things better? If we have no hope for revival? I've heard campaigns to oppose gay marriage and abortion in society as "polishing the brass on a sinking ship". I've even said it myself. But is defending the family (the bedrock of society) and unborn children an option??? Is it "polishing the brass on a sinking ship"? No wonder we've not made a real difference.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Consider this passages:

Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

How long shall Christ sit at the “right hand” (define it as you will theologically) before returning? The answer is, “…until I make thine enemies thy footstool”. Christ’s enemies will be subjugated through the church while He is at the right hand. Christ will return to a glorious church that has gained the victory over Hell on earth. However, it is this revival, this awakening, that will bring the satanic backlash of the end times (however one wishes to define it).

I am believing for a massive revival just prior to the end. If Futurism is correct, this revival might happen as the "Antichrist" is rising to power. If Futurism is correct, the Beast is Hell's answer to a church victorious.

(Dan 2:35 NIV) …But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

(Mat 13:31-32 NIV) He told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. {32} Though it is the smallest of all your seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and perch in its branches."

(Mat 13:33 NIV) He told them still another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough."

(Mat 24:14 NIV) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

(Rom 16:25-27 NIV) Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, {26} but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him-- {27} to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

(Rev 15:4 NIV) Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed." (With Preterist consideration)

We will have dominion.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

Aquila, I understand your feelings, but we must remember that Scripture says that sin will increase, and that evil will wax worse. I agree that for too long we allowed wickedness to grow. 'Christians' abandoned the field after the Scopes trial. It was at that time that many stopped contributing any more than their vote, and in addition many listened to smooth talking politicians as they slowly corrupted the schools and government.

When I was in college I was looking through an archive of Time and Newsweek magazines. In one of the volumes, they predicted that divorce would be so common that it would cease to have a negative impact on the psychology of children, abortion would be a common practice for ending unwanted pregnancies, as well as many other statements of grave moral concern. They have so far been nearly 15 years off concerning their predictions, however each of them is coming true, with the exception that these have not produced the benefits promised.

We should be willing to stand now against all evil and wickedness. We can no longer play with the sin, wickedness, and evil that now infests our land. This means in all of its forms no matter where it is found.

Amen!

I'd only add that while I agree that sin and wickedness will increase, simultaneously the church will expand throught the world, be felt in culture, and spread the knowledge and glory of the LORD until it covers the earth as the waters cover the sea.

It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Have FAITH! lol

Amen.

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

*clap clap clap clap whistles* whoooooooo!

Re: The New Normal - A Child Out of Wedlock
 

I have to start by saying I have not read all the posts, so don't know if anyone addressed this or not...children born out of wedlock is better than abortion! Over 50 Million babies have died at the hands of abortion doctors (I hesitate to call them doctors) While it is tragic that families are so fragmented, and few fathers are in the home anymore, I still would rather a child is born, then murdered in the womb. I am a birth Mother, I gave my child up for adoption, it was the most painful thing I ever had to do, don't know if I would do it now looking back, but I am so grateful I didn't abort her. We were re-united when she was grown, and if I had murdered her I would not have had a second chance. I didn't know the Lord when I was young, but I do now and again I am grateful she is alive!