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Aquila 02-24-2012 08:42 AM

Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
I found this article to be VERY interesting. If you choose to read this please share your thoughts...

The Marks of a Cult
One must be careful to distinguish between the sociological position of what constitutes a cult (i.e., which states that whatever is normative to a given culture is not cultic) and the theological position (i.e., which states that only those groups that adhere to the Bible as the basis for all theology and practice are considered normative, and thereby, not cultic).

From the theological viewpoint, any group or religious system, whether it calls itself "Christian" or not, that offers other criteria as equal to or superior to the Bible, including but not limited to erroneous and/or exclusive interpretations of Scripture, should be considered a cult. From the theological position, then, a cult can be best defined as:

A system of religious beliefs and rituals with a body of adherents deeply devoted to an extrabiblical person, idea, or thing; it cultivates worship in a religion that, with reference to its basis for man's salvation, is considered to be unorthodox, spurious, or false, thereby insulating its members against true salvation in Christ. And inasmuch as the central doctrine of Biblical Christianity is the sacrificial death of Christ for man's sin (Eph. 2:8,9), all cultic deviations tend to downplay the finished work of Christ and emphasize the importance of earning moral acceptance before God through one's own religious works.

From the theological viewpoint, all the groups/religious systems included in the Cult section of the Notebook are obviously cults. They are all centered in religious beliefs or practices calling for devotion to a religious view centered in false doctrine -- it is nothing less than organized heresy.

To be classified as a cult, not all of the following characteristics have to be present, but in most cases, in one form or another, all of them will be:

1. Extrabiblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception: In order to gain favor with the public, and thereby aid in the recruitment of new members, cult "doctrine" tends to be characterized by many false or deceptive claims concerning the cult's true spiritual beliefs (e.g., Mormons are not quick to reveal their belief that God was a man, who has now become the God of planet Earth).

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).

8. Defective Christology: Cults always have a false view of the nature of the Person of Jesus Christ; a cult will usually deny the true deity of Christ, His true humanity, His true origin, or the true union of the two natures in one Person.

9. Defective "Nature of Man": Most cults do not see man as an immortal being; instead they see him either as an animal without a soul or as a being which is being perfected to the point of becoming a god. They usually do not see man as a spirit clothed in a body of flesh awaiting the redemption of body and soul.

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.

12. Entangling Organization Structure: The less truth a movement represents, the more highly it seems to have to organize itself; the absence of truth seems to make necessary the application of the bonds of fear. Cults often demand total commitment by their converts to an organizational involvement that entangles them in a complicated set of human restrictions, giving the impression of passionate and often irrational devotion to a cause.

13. Financial Exploitation: The cultic practitioner strongly implies that money contributed to the cause will earn the contributor numerous gifts, powers, and abilities, and in many cases, outright salvation.

14. Pseudomystical/Spiritistic/Occultic Influence: Occult influence is many times found in either the origin of the group and/or in its current practices.
As found @ http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/marksof.htm

KeptByTheWord 02-24-2012 08:49 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Very interesting article indeed. I find the reference to number ten highlighting what I think is wrong with the majority of the OPs.

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.

One scripture I know for a fact they have based almost their entire movement on (women wearing dresses) is found in Duet. 22:5. They've taken that scripture out of the Torah, excluded all the other laws, and based a huge movement on that scripture. Then they take one chapter in Corinthians and base their doctrine on uncut hair out of that chapter, again, that kind of teaching not found anywhere else in scripture. I could go on... and I wouldn't even have a problem with people believing these things as a personal conviction, but then when it is taught as salvational, then that is where the road splits for me.

bbyrd009 02-24-2012 09:05 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Yup.

Nice, Aquila. Speaks for itself. Hate to post below it!

Aquila 02-24-2012 09:20 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1141122)
Very interesting article indeed. I find the reference to number ten highlighting what I think is wrong with the majority of the OPs.

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.

One scripture I know for a fact they have based almost their entire movement on (women wearing dresses) is found in Duet. 22:5. They've taken that scripture out of the Torah, excluded all the other laws, and based a huge movement on that scripture. Then they take one chapter in Corinthians and base their doctrine on uncut hair out of that chapter, again, that kind of teaching not found anywhere else in scripture. I could go on... and I wouldn't even have a problem with people believing these things as a personal conviction, but then when it is taught as salvational, then that is where the road splits for me.

I'll be more extreme. lol

I can respect a person's personal convictions. But I still have a problem with even their personal convictions if they are spiritually dangerous. Paul wrote to the Galatians,
Galatians 3:1-4 (KJV)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
It is a grave error to embrace the notion that one is now made perfect by the fleshly ordinances or standards of the law and/or the traditions of man. The Holy Magic Hair doctrine is occultism. Witchcraft. Why respect one's personal conviction with regards to practicing witchcraft? Paul was this hard on the Galatians for circumcision; imagine how hard he'd have been if they were practicing witchcraft like the Holy Magic Hair doctrine and/or voodoo dolls. And while I believe in modesty and decency, to legislate a certain style of dressing isn't commanded in the NT. Yes, we should have people cover themselves and not wear anything excessively tight. Enough said. We don't see Paul talking about "ankle length" or anything like that. So why should we? Modesty is modesty. Cover yourself respectfully and don't make clothing too tight or provocative. If someone asks, "How do I know if it's decent enough to wear?" Tell them it's obvious that if they're asking the question there is some doubt in their mind as to it's modesty. Explain how this is the Holy Spirit speaking to them. Teach them to listen to the Spirit!!!

Since modesty is a Christian discipline and not necessarily salvational, wait until the next gathering and make a few gentle statements about modesty. Mention things that you think are not necessarily modest. Explain how being modesty displays love for your neighbor. Because who would want to incite someone they love to lust? If in a small group, allow everyone to share their thoughts. Conviction will fall on those who have violated modesty. If someone continues to be immodest you might want to address them in private with a trusted brother or a sister by your side. If they continue to be immodest... bring it before the gathering and have a vote with regards to the individual remaining a member in good standing. The vote will reveal the body's desire. As an elder, it would be your responsibility to enforce their will, seeing that you are a servant to the congregation much like an elected official is a servant to their constituents.

RandyWayne 02-24-2012 09:23 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Although this is not present in every cult it does seem to be the final end game when it comes to ALL of the extreme ones.

15. The cult leader ultimately demands that the married men either give or share their wives with him. He will often cry and claim that he doesn't want this to happen but that god told him as a test of his faith as well as the men he is leading.

http://katyakroupnik.files.wordpress...10/03/flds.jpg

Aquila 02-24-2012 09:27 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 1141139)
Although this is not present in every cult it does seem to be the final end game when it comes to ALL of the extreme ones.

15. The cult leader ultimately demands that the married men either give or share their wives with him. He will often cry and claim that he doesn't want this to happen but that god told him as a test of his faith as well as the men he is leading.

http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uploa...gion-funny.jpg

You're not right Randy. lol

Aquila 02-24-2012 09:28 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 1141139)
Although this is not present in every cult it does seem to be the final end game when it comes to ALL of the extreme ones.

15. The cult leader ultimately demands that the married men either give or share their wives with him. He will often cry and claim that he doesn't want this to happen but that god told him as a test of his faith as well as the men he is leading.

http://katyakroupnik.files.wordpress...10/03/flds.jpg

If my wife looked like that I'd want him to take her! LOL (jk)

RandyWayne 02-24-2012 09:28 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1141142)
If my wife looked like that I'd want him to take her! LOL

LOL

RandyWayne 02-24-2012 09:30 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1141141)
You're not right Randy. lol

Once it gets to the stage the cult members have usually given up their homes and moved to a "farm" somewhere out in the wilderness.

KeptByTheWord 02-24-2012 09:35 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Once men really begin to believe they are hearing straight from God, and can be corrected by no one else, that is when you run.... run... run... as fast as you can .....

Le Penseur 02-24-2012 09:37 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1141118)
I found this article to be VERY interesting. If you choose to read this please share your thoughts...
6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.

This is HUGE! The part I highlighted in red is what I'm currently dealing with, having left after 26 years.

Timmy 02-24-2012 10:06 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1141147)
Once men really begin to believe they are hearing straight from God, and can be corrected by no one else, that is when you run.... run... run... as fast as you can .....

:thumbsup

KeptByTheWord 02-24-2012 10:12 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Penseur (Post 1141149)
This is HUGE! The part I highlighted in red is what I'm currently dealing with, having left after 26 years.

Yes, I feel for you. It is like tearing flesh off your very bones.. I still have family in this kind of situation, and it is a helpless feeling to know there is really nothing you can do but pray... God will have to lead them out, just as he led us....

Dordrecht 02-24-2012 10:49 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Goes to show you what can happen when people take their eyes off what Christ did on the Cross.

When "works" come into the picture things turn ugly.....

Aquila 02-24-2012 11:58 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Penseur (Post 1141149)
This is HUGE! The part I highlighted in red is what I'm currently dealing with, having left after 26 years.

Good news. God never left you. :)

Aquila 02-24-2012 11:59 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Cults will conform you into their image. The Father desires that we be conformed into the image of Jesus.

bbyrd009 02-24-2012 12:14 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Amen.
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1141147)
Once men really begin to believe they are hearing straight from God, and can be corrected by no one else, that is when you run.... run... run... as fast as you can .....

I dislike this because I believe we are to be led by the Spirit, and not listen to men. But surely we are having a semantics difference here?

Praxeas 02-24-2012 12:31 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1141118)
I found this article to be VERY interesting. If you choose to read this please share your thoughts...
The Marks of a Cult
One must be careful to distinguish between the sociological position of what constitutes a cult (i.e., which states that whatever is normative to a given culture is not cultic) and the theological position (i.e., which states that only those groups that adhere to the Bible as the basis for all theology and practice are considered normative, and thereby, not cultic).

From the theological viewpoint, any group or religious system, whether it calls itself "Christian" or not, that offers other criteria as equal to or superior to the Bible, including but not limited to erroneous and/or exclusive interpretations of Scripture, should be considered a cult. From the theological position, then, a cult can be best defined as:


This seems to be contradictory. A group that has an erroneous interpretation of scriptures is still a group that takes it's theolog FROM scriptures. And that said group probably also looks at other groups as having an erroneous interpretation of scriptures.

This is a subjective definition used by a group to label anyone that disagrees with their view as a cult. The word Cult actually originally referred to any religious sect. I have to wonder why these Christians, usually Trinitarians, adopted the word CULT instead of the more accurate and already in use HERESY. Why? My opinion is CULT has more of a negative connotation in the minds of simple people who instantly conjure images of Jonestown, Waco Texas and other mind control groups.

If we go by the definition in the first sentence the a CULT are groups like the JWs who have their other materials that are elevated to the level of Scriptures, Mormons with their other inspired works and Roman Catholicism and their traditions.

Quote:

A system of religious beliefs and rituals with a body of adherents deeply devoted to an extrabiblical person, idea, or thing;
Again this is subjective. Trinitarians look at other theologies and since they don't agree with their own theology, the say it is an extra biblical idea.

Quote:

it cultivates worship in a religion that, with reference to its basis for man's salvation, is considered to be unorthodox, spurious, or false, thereby insulating its members against true salvation in Christ.
Again this is subjective

Quote:

And inasmuch as the central doctrine of Biblical Christianity is the sacrificial death of Christ for man's sin (Eph. 2:8,9), all cultic deviations tend to downplay the finished work of Christ and emphasize the importance of earning moral acceptance before God through one's own religious works.
Again this is subjective. How? Said group can point to any other group that does not believe like THEY do and say they reject the finished work of Christ and instead emphasize earning moral acceptance. Yet I don't know of any group that rejects the finished work of Christ on the Cross at all. They might interpret how that Finished work is applied or parleyed into salvation but they all look at the Cross as the basis for atonement.

What I find odd though is going by this definition the Catholic churches should all be labeled a cult, but such groups/programs as Christian Research Institute refuse to do that

Quote:

From the theological viewpoint, all the groups/religious systems included in the Cult section of the Notebook are obviously cults. They are all centered in religious beliefs or practices calling for devotion to a religious view centered in false doctrine -- it is nothing less than organized heresy.
Again this is subjective based on ones own doctrine compared to other groups

Quote:

To be classified as a cult, not all of the following characteristics have to be present, but in most cases, in one form or another, all of them will be:
To be classified as a cult according to WHO?

Quote:

1. Extra biblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.
Wow..so the same argument can be made of Evangelicals who go by Luther, Calvin and other leaders interpretation of Scriptures as normative...see how subjective this is? I can claim those men are their leaders as the progenitors of their doctrine

Quote:

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).
What about those that base their dependence ON the finished work but feel the finished work is applied when we obey? This may be a wrong view but the fact is those groups do not deny the finished work. Once again this is still subjective. They subjectively decided only THEIR way is the right soteriological view and not any others and so all others are a cult

Quote:

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.
Subjective for both reasons above. Only the author of this definition is correct in their own eyes and so everyone else is a cult

Quote:

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.
While I agree this is wrong this is still subjective in the context of defining a cult

Quote:

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception: In order to gain favor with the public, and thereby aid in the recruitment of new members, cult "doctrine" tends to be characterized by many false or deceptive claims concerning the cult's true spiritual beliefs (e.g., Mormons are not quick to reveal their belief that God was a man, who has now become the God of planet Earth).
This is subjective as before and consider that when Evangelicals try to make converts they don't sit a prospect down and introduce them to every doctrine that group believes. They introduce them first to their core belief, how to be saved etc etc

Quote:

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.
The author of this piece just shot himself in the foot. For he/she is in the position of saying "What we believe is the Truth and what YOU believe is not, therefore YOU are a cult and we are not. We are the church and you are not"...This is again subjective

Quote:

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).
Special discoveries like Luther discovering what was hidden all those years such as salvation grace through faith? Etc etc...this again proves my point about subjectivity..Im gonna end here as time is out

Praxeas 02-24-2012 12:33 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God
I bet any person being a member of a baptist church for a generation and leaves for a Oneness church will be treated by those baptists the same way

The Matt 02-24-2012 01:35 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1141142)
If my wife looked like that I'd want him to take her! LOL (jk)

Bow wow I say, bow wow.

bbyrd009 02-24-2012 02:33 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1141147)
Once men really begin to believe they are hearing straight from God, and can be corrected by no one else, that is when you run.... run... run... as fast as you can .....

Ok, let me rephrase then:

Once men really begin to believe they are hearing straight from God, and can be corrected by no one else, you will see a fig tree bud.

I believe these are both true, but for the first, "What is the chaff to the wheat?"

Titus2woman 02-24-2012 02:51 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1141204)


I bet any person being a member of a baptist church for a generation and leaves for a Oneness church will be treated by those baptists the same way

This is very true. We left the Baptist church that we raised our family in for a Oneness church and were never spoken to again by anyone except when they simply could not avoid us for some reason... The felt we have lost our minds when we received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and were possessed. Or that is what my mother who still went to church there told me they thought. :)

Michael The Disciple 02-24-2012 03:02 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Very flawed article.

Here the Apostle John tells what HE considered a cult.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6

If one varies from the Apostles doctrine they are a cult.

The Matt 02-24-2012 03:06 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
I can't help but think the OP posted this description with my kind of church in mind...

bbyrd009 02-24-2012 03:42 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1141230)
Very flawed article.

Here the Apostle John tells what HE considered a cult.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6

If one varies from the Apostles doctrine they are a cult.

That seems harsh the first, for a description of attributes of a cult which could be called an expansion of your quote? Does it fail in any particulars to you? And I'm sure you would admit that although your quote is valid, was speaking to a similar but different point. Surely you would agree that even the Apostles' Doctrine should be a living part of the Word?

Michael The Disciple 02-24-2012 04:52 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009 (Post 1141247)
That seems harsh the first, for a description of attributes of a cult which could be called an expansion of your quote? Does it fail in any particulars to you? And I'm sure you would admit that although your quote is valid, was speaking to a similar but different point. Surely you would agree that even the Apostles' Doctrine should be a living part of the Word?

The Apostles doctrine IS the word. We must conform to IT or we make ourselves into a "cult". We are not allowed to have private interpretation of the word. The Church is to follow the faith once delivered to the saints.

bbyrd009 02-24-2012 06:28 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1141253)
The Apostles doctrine IS the word. We must conform to IT or we make ourselves into a "cult". We are not allowed to have private interpretation of the word. The Church is to follow the faith once delivered to the saints.

Surely, however there are dispensations, and times, and the current ongoing debate about...everything, and my knowledge that we are here to bring a Kingdom, which may be restated "grow a new thing" imo, we're planting seed, there is a crop, I could go on, tells me that Grace should overlay what sure sounds almost like Law to me in such a way as to by definition be a new and unusual thing, while certainly still conforming to the spirit of your quote.

I'm sure we can agree that the fruit of any branch can't long be hidden, there, and I see the Church coming into an age where it might even be argued that your quote will more spiritually be adhered to, while possibly not following the characterization you seem to imply. (unless your like a Mennonite or something, in which case I agree with you totally, lol)

I think we'll end up at a semantics, or possibly doctrinal discussion about some defs in

"The Church is to follow the faith once delivered to the saints,"

mostly.

Jay 02-25-2012 02:16 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Yawn...Seen this repeatedly over the years. I have reached the point that this type of thing is actually rather boring and mundane. We can thank the cult hunters for this. The simple fact of the matter is that most people who wish to call us cultists do not know what they are talking about. In fact, many times you can not even get them to see that we use more than one Scripture (many more) to support our doctine.

Again as I said, this is more than slightly boring. If anyone could create a better argument, then I might get interested.

bbyrd009 02-25-2012 06:44 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Hmm, to that I would say that I wasn't aware of whichever argument you mean? I see a list of attributes of a cult that seems thoughtful at least, and we have Michael, who for some reason seems to dislike it. That's all (I) know?

crakjak 02-25-2012 07:50 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Jesus is our example, He has made all the difference. He came to be the Savior of all humanity, and at that He will succeed. He reserved his rebuke for those "religious leaders" that abused the folks, manipulated them for their own power and control, thinking the were doing what God want them to do. But they like many religious leaders today miss the whole point of God's purpose.

Again I recommend every believer to read "Spiritual Terrorism" 'Spiritual Abuse from the Womb to the Tomb', by Boyd C. Purcell Ph.D. spiritual abusers, terrorisers, and killers are clearly identified. Some of it is kind hard to read, but if you will persist you will be enlightened and your spiritual life greatly enchanced. He was kicked our of his pastorate, became a hospice chaplin, read his stories of counseling many at the end of life, dealing with the baggage of lives of sin and of religious indoctrinations of all sorts. He helps them come to understand God as He really is, and to die in peace.

bbyrd009 02-25-2012 08:40 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
"Spiritual Terrorism is about the effect of fear-based religion on people's lives who have been spiritually abused by a negative conception of God through eternal hell-fire preaching and teaching. The doctrine of eternal punishment in literal fire is at the heart of many forms of spiritual abuse and all forms of spiritual terrorism which is the most extreme form of spiritual abuse.

This book effectively explains the symbolic use of fire in the Holy Bible and other Holy Books. The common misunderstanding of the metaphorical usage of fire is the primary cause of spiritual terrorism. Dr. Purcell clarifies the confusion over the Christian doctrine of salvation by grace and judgment which is based on the deeds of life-good or bad. This allows readers to grasp the liberating truth that people are totally free to live their lives but are also totally accountable, at the end of life, for how they have lived their lives.

God will ultimately teach universal empathy and bring about perfect justice for all without violating anyone's free will. Spiritual abuse has the potential to affect all stages of life: in the womb, childhood, youth, young adults, older adults, end of life, and bereavement after the deaths of loved ones. Spiritual abuse may also affect all areas of life: marriage/divorce, emotional/mental/physical abuse, medical treatment or refusal of such treatment for self and children, and domestic and international terrorism.

All major world religions are addressed: Judeo/Christianity, Islam, and the Eastern Religions-Buddhism and Hinduism. Included as well are Native American Beliefs. There is a theme running through all major religions of God's unconditional love, amazing grace, infinite mercy, perfect justice, and a universal homecoming."
http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=KGaKGkg4ZRIC

bbyrd009 02-25-2012 08:45 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Not sure I'm comfortable with the mix of Universalism here with the death centricity introduced into Christianity at the Councils, pretty clearly (with hindsight) for the benefit of empire builders...

Ya, part 2 "The Solution to the Problem"
part 2a "Christian Universalism"

So this amounts to an accurate assessment of death centricity,
but amounts to a Universalist invitation, and so confuses an issue, imo.

bbyrd009 02-25-2012 08:54 AM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009 (Post 1141384)
Hmm, to that I would say that I wasn't aware of whichever argument you mean? I see a list of attributes of a cult that seems thoughtful at least, and we have Michael, who for some reason seems to dislike it. That's all (I) know?

bump

Michael The Disciple 02-25-2012 02:04 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).
This concept is confusing and is itself cultic. If we read this as is one would think that a Christian need do nothing. Jesus said we must do many things if we want to enter his Kingdom. Deny yourself. Take up the cross. Hate your life in this world.

Many things. Grace is Gods favor in ones life. If his favor is there you will have a great desire to do what he says. Cults love to teach you need do nothing. Jesus said if we dont do his will he will tell us "depart ye that work iniquity".

Praxeas 02-25-2012 02:06 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009 (Post 1141384)
Hmm, to that I would say that I wasn't aware of whichever argument you mean? I see a list of attributes of a cult that seems thoughtful at least, and we have Michael, who for some reason seems to dislike it. That's all (I) know?

because it's contrived and subjective? That's all (I) know? Do people really talk like this! No?

Praxeas 02-25-2012 02:07 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1141394)
Jesus is our example, He has made all the difference. He came to be the Savior of all humanity, and at that He will succeed. He reserved his rebuke for those "religious leaders" that abused the folks, manipulated them for their own power and control, thinking the were doing what God want them to do. But they like many religious leaders today miss the whole point of God's purpose.

Again I recommend every believer to read "Spiritual Terrorism" 'Spiritual Abuse from the Womb to the Tomb', by Boyd C. Purcell Ph.D. spiritual abusers, terrorisers, and killers are clearly identified. Some of it is kind hard to read, but if you will persist you will be enlightened and your spiritual life greatly enchanced. He was kicked our of his pastorate, became a hospice chaplin, read his stories of counseling many at the end of life, dealing with the baggage of lives of sin and of religious indoctrinations of all sorts. He helps them come to understand God as He really is, and to die in peace.

what does this have to do with the contrived subjective criteria for a cult?

Michael The Disciple 02-25-2012 02:46 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false.
This perfectly describes the Protestant Church. Thousands of "Apologetics" sites litter the internet bearing witness of this. Unless you believe in Trinitarianism they declare you deceived.

Unless you believe in their false "Christ did it all once saved always saved theology" you are counted as a legalist works preaching cultist.

We are supposed to bring our doctrine to Protestants and allow them to judge by their standards whether we are a cult? WHAT?

What about rightly dividing the word of truth?

The most dangerous cult for seekers of Christ is the mainstream Protestant Churches.

Michael The Disciple 02-25-2012 03:01 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

9. Defective "Nature of Man": Most cults do not see man as an immortal being; instead they see him either as an animal without a soul or as a being which is being perfected to the point of becoming a god. They usually do not see man as a spirit clothed in a body of flesh awaiting the redemption of body and soul.
So ridiculous. Paul taught in conformity with all scripture that men are MORTAL and our journey in Christ is a journey toward IMMORTALITY.

A careful reading of and belief in what Paul taught the Romans is sufficient to prove he did not see men as having immortality, eternal life apart from Jesus Christ.

Romans 2:6-7

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Why would Christians be seeking for something they already have? Again its the opposite of Protestant doctrine that is true. Cults teach man has his own immortal soul through which he already has eternal life.

Michael The Disciple 02-25-2012 03:10 PM

Re: Interesting Article: The Marks of a Cult
 
Quote:

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.
Cults deny the need for the resurrection by teaching we immediately are with the Lord at death. Rather Paul taught at the second coming and resurrection THEN we would BE WITH THE LORD.

1 Thess. 4:16-18

. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Aquila 02-25-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila
I found this article to be VERY interesting. If you choose to read this please share your thoughts...

The Marks of a Cult
One must be careful to distinguish between the sociological position of what constitutes a cult (i.e., which states that whatever is normative to a given culture is not cultic) and the theological position (i.e., which states that only those groups that adhere to the Bible as the basis for all theology and practice are considered normative, and thereby, not cultic).

From the theological viewpoint, any group or religious system, whether it calls itself "Christian" or not, that offers other criteria as equal to or superior to the Bible, including but not limited to erroneous and/or exclusive interpretations of Scripture, should be considered a cult. From the theological position, then, a cult can be best defined as:

A system of religious beliefs and rituals with a body of adherents deeply devoted to an extrabiblical person, idea, or thing; it cultivates worship in a religion that, with reference to its basis for man's salvation, is considered to be unorthodox, spurious, or false, thereby insulating its members against true salvation in Christ. And inasmuch as the central doctrine of Biblical Christianity is the sacrificial death of Christ for man's sin (Eph. 2:8,9), all cultic deviations tend to downplay the finished work of Christ and emphasize the importance of earning moral acceptance before God through one's own religious works.

From the theological viewpoint, all the groups/religious systems included in the Cult section of the Notebook are obviously cults. They are all centered in religious beliefs or practices calling for devotion to a religious view centered in false doctrine -- it is nothing less than organized heresy.

To be classified as a cult, not all of the following characteristics have to be present, but in most cases, in one form or another, all of them will be:

1. Extrabiblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.

Cults don't value Scripture as final authority. They add their own body of scripture, or a single man's interpretation either as an individual church or organization.

Quote:

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).
Cults deny the reality of the atonement, justification by faith, regeneration, adoption, sanctification, as a work of God. Instead salvation is probationary, depending upon how one "obeys, the rules", which are man made standards or standards based on the Law of Moses.

Quote:

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.
Salvation is probationary, the believer living in constant fear and uncertainty regarding their position in Christ.

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4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.
Faith is focused on pleasing the pastor or prophet, not Christ. The prophet's abuses are excused and ignored.

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5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception: In order to gain favor with the public, and thereby aid in the recruitment of new members, cult "doctrine" tends to be characterized by many false or deceptive claims concerning the cult's true spiritual beliefs (e.g., Mormons are not quick to reveal their belief that God was a man, who has now become the God of planet Earth).
Cults hide their errant beliefs from outsiders and reveal them progressively to new converts as they are indoctrinated.

Quote:

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.
A cult teaches that their church or their organization IS the kingdom of God.

Quote:

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).
Cults believe their visions and revelations trump the Apostolic witness if the Bible

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8. Defective Christology: Cults always have a false view of the nature of the Person of Jesus Christ; a cult will usually deny the true deity of Christ, His true humanity, His true origin, or the true union of the two natures in one Person.
Cults often deny the divinity of Christ or His full humanity.

Quote:

9. Defective "Nature of Man": Most cults do not see man as an immortal being; instead they see him either as an animal without a soul or as a being which is being perfected to the point of becoming a god. They usually do not see man as a spirit clothed in a body of flesh awaiting the redemption of body and soul.
Self explanatory.

Quote:

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.
Ignore the whole of Scripture.

Quote:

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.
Deny eternal punishment. Seek to grasp individual godhood.

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12. Entangling Organization Structure: The less truth a movement represents, the more highly it seems to have to organize itself; the absence of truth seems to make necessary the application of the bonds of fear. Cults often demand total commitment by their converts to an organizational involvement that entangles them in a complicated set of human restrictions, giving the impression of passionate and often irrational devotion to a cause.
Cultic organization of men.

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13. Financial Exploitation: The cultic practitioner strongly implies that money contributed to the cause will earn the contributor numerous gifts, powers, and abilities, and in many cases, outright salvation.
Greed. Justifies exploitation with the Bible.

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14. Pseudomystical/Spiritistic/Occultic Influence: Occult influence is many times found in either the origin of the group and/or in its current practices.

As found @ http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/marksof.htm


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