UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

David Bernard attended a meeting Co-hosted by Jack Hayford last month.

One historian from Regent University stated, "“This is an historic day. The divisions of a hundred years ago were laid aside today in a wonderful spirit of unity.”

For me, giving official recognition to our brethren in other denominations can't come soon enough! What say you? This meeting was with both Pentecostal and non Pentecostal Leaders.

Here is an excerpt and a link.

LOS ANGELES, CA— On January 13, 2012, an historic meeting of leaders took place at the Central Offices of the Foursquare Church. Welcomed by president Glenn Burris, 18 top leaders of denominations committed to a common emphasis on holiness in the 21st century met as part of the Wesleyan Holiness Consortium (WHC). These leaders represent 13 denominations whose roots are common in the Wesleyan Holiness movement. The WHC was formed in 2006 at a meeting of these leaders in Dallas. Since then, the WHC has expanded in influence involving regional leaders and thousands of pastors from these denominations across the United States and in South America. The denominations represented at this meeting included: Assemblies of God, Brethren in Christ, Church of God/Anderson, Evangelical, Foursquare, Free Methodist, Grace Communion International, Nazarene, Pentecostal Holiness, Salvation Army, United Methodist, United Pentecostal, Wesleyan.


http://holinessandunity.wikispaces.c...e_Jan%2013.pdf

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Wow

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

I wish that I could could say that I was shocked. Considering that so many of them look and dress like the world, I am not particularly impressed.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

DB's in big trouble now!!!! All of that great ultra con pacifying stuff doesn't mean a thing if he has the nerve to associate with trinitarians as if they were brothers in the Lord!!!!! Why everybody knows they serve a "different God". In fact THREE gods! (I said this to beat the cons and ultra cons to it although I see Jay has already noted some of that group considered holiness have not set their holiness zone to the mid 40's-50's like the UPC):icecream

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Times, they are a changing. First the Christmas beards, now a nod toward the past.

The church I'm now attending is a very unusual Apostolic church. There are more people in church who don't follow the "AI" then there are that do. The reason for this is there are more new people from all the various ministries then there are old timers to peer pressure them. And the young people in the church that do know the standards, dress so cute and modern, that they just look adorable.

People comfortably attend the church as they are. Somewhere along the line, possibly in a new converts class, standards are taught, but they are not preached from the pulpit.

The platform definately looks the part, as do the ushers and greeters, but the most of the congregation come as they are.

It is a praying, fasting, soul winning church, with a mightly move of the Holy Ghost, people being baptized and being filled with the Spirit, Gifts of the Spirit in operation. Being part of this Church is bringing joy back into my soul.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Very interesting and encouraging.... Nice to see a little bit of Christian unity happening, for once ;)

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

That's awesome Amanah!! Praise God for those who have found a way to have unity of the brethren, and continue in the spirit of the early church!

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Why would Bernard associate with those who preach a pagan, polytheistic message....according to him.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Only one possible answer. They must be "looking our way!":thumbsup:happydance

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

David Bernard belikeves that Trinitarians and OPs worship the same Jesus, we just have different opinions on whether He is 1 of 3 or just 1 of 1 persons

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

This is true, you can find these quotes from when David Bernard debates Trinitarians.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

What say I? Depends on the intent of this meeting and the intent and approach of Brother Bernard. If he was there simply to represent the Apostolic movement..fine. If he was there to affirm that "we are all in the same boat"...not so fine. For some reason, I can't imagine Bro Bernard going along to get along and trying to identify with those outside the Apostolic Faith as they were "brethren". I could be wrong tho.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

For the record, I visit services, revivals, and perhaps even conferences of those with whom I don't agree. This does not mean that I am identifying myself with them. Nor does it mean I believe the Apostolic message and its neccessity any less.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

KC, I have also attended revival services, a campmeeting, and and other services with those who are not Apostolic much less Pentecostal. However, they were old-fashioned Holiness, and they know that I am Apostolic. I have reached the point that I am very easily recognized by many of them. I am doing my best to show them, and everyone else, that there is more to Pentecost than what they have seen.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

I would not begin to think DKB now "agrees" with them in all areas... it's weird for anyone to assume that he would... Nor would I expect Nazarene's now to invoke "Jesus" at the moment of baptism.

Such musings are really missing the point. The point that we can see and celebrate, is that mature leaders who worship Jesus can get together for causes they agree on, and hopefully further dialog in areas where differences do exist.

I say "Praise Jesus!"

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

And boldly, right there in the middle of the first row in the picture!! LOL.

May the Lord bless him and all these brethen to follow Christ in the leadership of their respective denominations.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Absolutely! When attending functions at other churches I believe it is important that we go representing what we believe and who we are. Any time that I visit a meeting at a church of another faith I want to represent Apostolic Truth. If I preach at a church of another faith I DO NOT avoid preaching doctrine! lol

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

I would if he be careful because sometimes the greetings you send toward others don't come back toward you.
We all know how much some hate and mock the oneness of our faith in one true God.
It's ok to be flexible around people with friendship but I would be very careful about the spirit of political correctness in agreeing with ours as brothers of the faith, especially if I were Bernard.
The devil would love to get even with him.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

The lack of posting on this suggest to me that the conservative corner of this forum is all but gone. 3-4 years ago this would have been the #1 hitter.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

As a member of the Untra-Con I ask, how can we reach the lost, if we do not associate with them? We can shine all we want, but if it just hidden under a bed it is useless!

There is a difference between associating with them and being a part of them.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Great post!

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

This seems to have been a meeting that was more than just associating, and closer to joining. I am concerned that this is just going to be the start of greater compromises. I read the pdf, and this sounds like a meeting where doctrinal distinctives and truths were ignored in favor of compromise. I would say that this was closer to a meeting of used to be holiness groups.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

I can tell you this, Rev Bernard is no slackie when it comes to Holiness Standards. He teaches it right out of the bible.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

From what I have seen, it does not seem as if there is much holding the UPC to its roots. There are still many good men in it, but it seems as if there are many attempting to remove the remaining standards that they hold. Then with DKB attending this meeting, it looks like the overall situation is made for compromising everything.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Jay is your church/background WPF?

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

We are aligned with the WPF, we are perhaps in a more moderate postition now, but we would be allied to the more conservative faction (and t.here are conservatives and liberals).

I am very distressed to see the way that the UPC is going. I know of good men who have said that they will not remain if it changes much more. I will not name names.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

So I think any thoughts you have about DKB "compromising everthing" is suspect at best.

He is after all, responsible for making WPFers choose between the UPC and a newly spawned group formed in protest to allowing old advertising technology!

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Could this be used to let people see the truth of Jesus name baptism and Holy Spirit baptism? I pray this could be the outcome of this whole situation.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

This may be an opportunity for all that attend to learn more about each others real beliefs. and maybe a chance for them to find out how to search the scriptures for the truth.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Bingo! I am very happy that David Bernard is engaged, and humble enough to contribute to discussion of diverse brethren with similar goals.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

The irritating issue here for me is that there still seems to be this "assimilation" mentality amoungst both UPC and WPF folks, which is to say that unless all Assilimilate to the form and function of the group - in this case it is ALWAYS about appearence, standards, etc., then there is a great letting down, a forsaking of the old paths, etc., etc.,

I have no problem with Holiness, or with standards...believe it or not. What I have a HUGE issue with is the contention it seems to cause and the demand for uniformity or else! Every one of these discussions always ends up a circular argument with essentially two sides trying desperately to persuade the other that their view is "off" or not "Biblical" - and the bottom line is IT NEVER ENDS.

In the meantime, while there is all this contention there are souls hurting and dying by the thousands...ridiculous. I for one applaud any effort to try and build a bridge to others who preach Christ but have different takes on doctrine....not in an effort to compromise what we know as truth, but in an effort to understand what makes the other factions tick and what the heartbeat is.

I remember reading a scripture somewhere that applauded those who preach Christ....I mean seriously, IU believe there are many opportunities to continue to help lay some foundation for those of different persuasions by sitting down and listening to them..

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Could it be that Bernard considers those Trinitarian, baptized Father, Son, Holy Ghost, non-tongue talking individuals equals as born again children of God?

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

No. Bernard is a politician.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Actually, we would have left over the issue of television alone. However, there was far more than just that one issue that influenced our leaving. There were events at Youth Congress, youth camps, General Conference, etc. that all had influence on our decisions. The forcing of the issue was only the last in a series of events.

DKB actually had very little influence in causing many of those who joined the WPF to do so. For many years now, he has been more concerned about the organization than the issues of holiness he once wrote about nearly 30 years ago. He has said that as long as the Oneness and Acts 2:38 are preached, all other differences should be set aside.



I do not mind listening to other people, and attempt to make careful inquiry into their beliefs. The best way to win people is to be their friend.

Further, the WPF has only a few standards that are universally agreed upon. Bro. Booker and others are against Facebook (my inference from listening to what has been said). Bro. J. Godair has put video of messages on his church website. My church is against video but uses Facebook. There are various points of view concerning sleeves, jewelry, and other things as well.

Lastly, we are not a police state where conformity is strictly enforced


I would say that he appears to lean in that direction from some of what I have seen him partake in, and from some of the things that he has said.

This is also very true. I would say that he is a likely a very good one.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Funny how some are strong against church on tv but have stream lining services on the net. Kinda kind preaching against rings with a gold watch on. Shows most of us have blind spots even though sincere.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

The people who are members of the UPCI, are not the only ones going to heaven. If anyone thinks that, they are way off. Sorry, I have to make that statement because I get sick of hearing it all the time that no one is equal to us because of what we believe, and how we live.
I know a lot of UPC people from ages ago and even now. Funny how when you leave there group all the things you have done to minister to them through out the years seem to mean nothing, because, you can't even get them to call you and ask, Brother we haven't seen you in church lately.

Love should be as strong as self proclaimed power!

People need to wake up, if you have revelation in the spirit then start acting like it.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Funny. I have nevah heard anyone say that only UPC will be in heaven.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

Me neither.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

I've heard folks preach that only those who 1) Repent, 2) are baptized in Jesus name, 3) spoke in tongues and 4) living certain 'standards' will be the only ones in heaven.

Re: UPC at Wesleyan Holiness Consortium
 

I think most of us have heard that.