Music In The Modern Church
 

I believe I am going to start a study on the subject of music/singing in the church. I intend to do this as a private study, not on AFF-but AFF is always good for different viewpoints and opinions. I desire to build up my doctrinal beliefs from scriptures, rather that popular church opinion/tradition and though I have opinions on the topic, I am willing to allow my presuppositions to be challenged and corrected by the Word (if need be). I welcome your thoughts, opinions, arguments.

Here are some random thoughts. Should we be more conerned for the style of music or the content? It seems like the trend is to sing upbeat songs (that one can juke and jive to) that are very weak on lyrics, some times called "7-11 songs" because a chorus of about 7 words is sang over and over (about 11 times).

How important are lyrics? What if they are set in a musical style that makes them difficult to understand (I.e. rap or hard rock)?

Are secular songs acceptable (like a former AFF poster who spoke of using the Beatles song "all you need is love" or NewSpring church in S. Carolina that used "highway to hell" in one of their services)? It is ok to sing songs that are essentially spirtually nuetral,I.e. not particulary mentioning God or anything definitive, but neither gorifying sin,e.g. "I believe I Can Fly" by R. Kelly? What about using secular songs as one church did at offering time using Pink Floyd's (?) "Money"?

How important is doctrine in song? For example if we sing a song with scripture taken completely out of context, but yet its a catchy tune so everyone likes it, should we rock the boat and quit singing it?

Should we address satan in a song? (Satan you're kingdom's coming down)?

Should singing in church ever manifest a club atmosphere with a "worship leader" using phrases like "get ya hands up, get ya hands up", "uh huh, uh huh", etc?

How does what we accept as praise and worship (especialy churches which favor a very progressive style) compare in spirit and lyrics to 1)what scripture reveals about heavenly worship and 2)what we know about the secular "worldly" music industry?

Should "worship" service be like a concert where the audience isn't actively involved (not counting capping or dancing), or should all members of the body sing "congregationally"?

Just some things that crossed my mind, I've got opinions on nearly all of them, but I'm going to dig deeper in scripture to see those things are so.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

According to my grandfather, music affects the brain in certain ways, Rock and Rap making people more aggressive... Country causing people to become more suicidal, easy listening causing people to become more calm. So basically music affects your brain in the way you think and act, so if say, Rock was played as a Worship song in the church, people would more tend to start acting more aggressive and that is not particularly a trait that God really likes... Same for Rap.

I personally love, ALL music, and do listen to everything, from Classical music to Deathcore. From Rap to Country. From Oldies to old fashion gospel. I listen to EVERYTHING and like it... Except Pop music, I really don't care to much for that stuff... You should do some research first into how music affects people then you can go further in your studies from that part.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Well, in the NT you are not going to find much on music, hence the Church of Christ's stance to have NO music in their churches. So you probably will have to base most of what you find in the OT concerning music.

However, one thing that is mentioned in the NT is singing. I think it is better to focus on what one is singing first, because the words do matter. Singing the 7-11 is just horrible to me. If there is no meaning to the words, then how can you worship with those words to the Lord? They are simply meaningless words repeated over and over with no effectiveness.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

I think if more songs focused on the Psalms, and using scripture as their basis, they would be more meaningful and powerful.

Yet, again, it does all boil down to personal opinion.
Personally, in the little church group we are a part of, we sing a lot of psalms, which are just music put to the words in the psalms. They are so beautiful, and easy to worship to.

I don't intent to use the social sciences in my study. I think such info is so subjective it has no place in the church. Its like saying if you use dark colors in the decor of your home you will be depressed. To me its just nonsense. It goes without saying that we pick up on different tempos and rythms, but I don't believe that "music affects your brain" if you mean it causes us to think or act differently. I would say that is only true inasmuch as someone allows the lyrics of such music to mold their views. For example, if christians choose to listen to pop music constantly finding plasure in lyrics which glorify sleping around, lust, broken relationships, revenge, rebellion, adultery, fornication, covetousness, violent crime, alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic abuse, isolationism, selfishness, and a hundred more ungodly themes, I argue that it will effect their worldview, not because of brain waves, but because of the message they subject themselves to-AND find pleasue in (romans 1:32). Which brings up another question, should Christians listen to secular/worldly music at all, esecially considering eph 5:19, Colossians 3:16, Phill 4:8, and James 5:13? And still yet another question, WHY would a christian even desire and find pleasure in such music? All of which brings us back to one of the original questions, do we justify music because it is "fun" or "catchy" or "has a good beat" rather than actually choose music we listen to based on the lyrics? While the 2 may seem exclusive, they are not, fr often what people like to listen to outside of church works itself into the church.

I think there is quite a bit more concerning music in the new testament than what people realize. The CoC position is pretty weak IMO. I like singing of Psalms also, as well as old hymns, especially to more modern music. When I listen to modern chruch music, I especially like Chris Tomlin.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

The problem is, ALL music affects the brain, with tempo, beats, pitches etc. You can find this out if you look up, "Delta, Theta, Alpha or Gamma wave music" those are all types of music that affect your brain, however all forms of music follow those patterns of music as well, whether it's the beat of the base, high hat, tom toms, tambourine, even the singers. It would be a good idea for you to look into them, however I can not control you and if you do not see a point in it then well. I don't really have a say in it of course, but it is good to warn you ahead of time just in case you change your mind on the subject...

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

I don't think anyone does that better than Charlie Daniels. :)

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

I do not see much wrong with some of the 7-11s. There are some times that they do have some depth. I have enjoyed some of them, but I also enjoy songs from the book. I am very careful to avoid music that will be ungodly. I will not listen to rock, rap, pop, or most country. I am very careful about the 'gospel music' that I play as well. I tend to listen to Southern Gospel and a limited amount of the contemporary. I also listen to some of the old hymns. I hope that helps.

I do not approve of worldly music being used in the worship service. There might be a few that are clean enough to sing during a 'fun night' type of event.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Maybe you would like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZtwxc423jg

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

What we say is what we think in our heart. Lyrics are very important. Music lyrics, imho should be used to uplift Jesus and edify His church.

Well...I am shocked that a church played the song "Highway to Hell" or "Money"...unless it was during an educational service that taught on the evils of rock and roll music. Many years ago we had an evangelist that held... what I will call a revival...for lack of a better word. He did play Led Zepplin's song Stairway to Heaven, but to demonstrate what the lyrics say and the lifestyle of the authors and what the artists had to say about their choices to sing the type of songs they did. He also revealed what is called backward masking praises to satan in these types of songs. Many people do not believe these songs contain backward masking praises to satan.

There is a minister who has a 10 hour DVD that is called "They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll". He educates how rock and roll got started...and it was not by heavenly inspiration. The artists talked about how "something just seemed to take over their body as they were playing their musical instruments during the songs. They talked about how the lyrics would just come to them as they wrote the songs.

This man goes into depth about the history of rock and roll groups. The Beatles were into illicit drugs to "expand their mind" so that they would write "hit songs". I heard an excerpt of George Harrison talking about his hit song "My Sweet Lord". He was into new age/hindu type worship. He specifically said that he wrote the song in the fashion he wrote because he wanted to start out with a catchy beat, then little by little added praise words to Krishna...so that by then people would be singing along and aloud...exactly what he intended for them to do. In reality, it was a praise song to the Hare Krishna so exalted by some back in the 70s.

Lyrics to the song if one is curious, but only for educational purposes as how one popular singer lulled people into praising his god.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/g/george+..._20059071.html

I was shocked when I heard him say this in an interview because that was one of my favorite songs when I was 14-years-old. It had a very catchy tune and easy to juke and jive to. As a teenager, we got caught up in the lyrics and would sing along with the artist when played on the radio. My own personal conviction now is that when I sing along these songs written for the praise of false gods, I am praising them and not my Lord Jesus. Some may take issue with me on that, but that is my humble opinion and I strive to examine what I sing to these days. Imagine to be in my 5th decade of life and just learning about some of my favorite teenage songs being demonic and I sang along. I did a lot of repenting.

So no...I do not think that secular songs reworked and played in worship services are appropriate for praise to our Holy God. He deserves much, much better than second hand rock and roll or warmed over country songs.

As for one church's using of Pink Floyd's song "Money" in taking up the offering...my husband says that in some churches it could be appropriate. :heeheehee

He told me a happening in one OP Church where an offering was taken up and a preacher lifted up the money in the basket as a "sacrifice" to God. Then pulled it back down saying "The sacrifice was accepted". I was appalled when I heard that!

Imho, yes. We teach children scripture using songs and we ourselves learn scripture by singing. I learned parts of Psalm 27 by singing Lanny Wolf's "The Lord is My Light and My Salvation". Songs should be pure in scripture and unadulterated.

I am not a fan of singing about Satan in a song during church services. I thought that I was a loner and freaky because I am not an advocate of this. Many people would dismiss what I think about this because they would say I am nit-picking.

We once had a preacher who preached a sermon about "priming the pump" and used congregational singing as a source for "priming the pump" with the song leader urging the congregation to worship during song service.
At this point I am neither for nor against it because I have never really thought about this situation. That is subject to change if someone can give sound biblical doctrine supporting their views.

I learned during that "rock and roll revival" years ago that Lucifer was the music maker in heaven before he rebelled and was cast down. Scripture in Ezekiel was given. We can be deceived by Lucifer because he can make some beautiful music...in melody...but the lyrics can be rotten fruits intended to worship Lucifer instead of our Almighty Creator.

Probably not much help to you, but these are just some of my thoughts.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Buddy you need to be veeeery careful about what you listen to...Listen closely to some of the music you listen to. Music is a quick road to whatever you're listening to...Listen to the lyrics, figure out how the "beat" makes you feel. I personally believe that any music not exalting the kingdom is an open channel for spiritual warfare. A lot of things you may be fighting could be from the music you listen to.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

If they would just sink 'The Old Gospel Ship' I'd be one happy camper!

I love the hymns of old, and modern worship music. Chris Tomlin and Third Day are some of my favs. I have a weakness for mass choirs. My media playlists show me a very eclectic Jesus Freak.

I'm pretty much done with secular music except when I get a jones for some good Motown.... I used to be into southern rock, grunge and Metallica when I was a rank Baptist sinner.... of course I smoked a lot of dope then too.

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You are right, I am trying to change what I listen to, but the problem is, since I love all types of music I can't help it... Or I can, but it will seriously take some time!

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

My sweet spot is right there. I have alwaus prefered his version of that song.

I like that one, but would prefer to see I'll Fly Away shot down. I really dislike that song. In thirty more years or so, I might enjoy singing that song.

I will be praying for you conerning this matter. I know that He will help you through.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Umm, it would be good if I actually knew the names of Christian bands O. O the only ones I know are, Steven Curtis Chapman, David Meece, Glory Forever - Gateway, and umm... Upper Room Experience. I think that is about it...

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Fee, Shane and Shane, Third Day, Ten Shekel Shirt, Kutless, Flyleaf, Phil Wickham.... Those are a few, yes I love a variety of music. :)

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I love David Meece! I love the Imperials. I love DeGarmo & Key. I cannot STAND most of the current crop of Christian contemporary which consists of nothing more then boring guitar strumming and a light beat with non-inspired melodies. The 80's were the glory days for Christian music and unfortunately it is gone. :(

Ironically, I just discovered some artists that was always familiar but never listened to. Just bought Queens Greatest Hits I, II, and III! "I want it all!"

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Ha, yikes. I've defended Freddie Mercury here on this forum; but I'm not sure I'd let my kids listen to him, lol. But I can relate. That's why I suggested David Byrne, as he is inspired, imo, and a 20 something or under may have largely missed the Talking Heads.

I've seen some really neat sounding "Christian" music, but with some horrible lyrics. I have always payed careful attention to the lyrics in music that I listen to, never payed much attention to what genre it claimed to be.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Yeah...the 80s were the best!

David Meece had a different style and I loved it! The Imperials were also my fav.

Queen? I would say that they are the most unusual group that ever came to be.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

While I was familiar with many of their hits I was a bit surprised to hear a few songs off their greatest hits that I knew but didn't know THEY did it. LOL

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There was one Christian group back in the 80s that had the sound of Queen ..but I cannot remember their name. I only remember the name of one of their songs. It was called "Mealtime Prayers". They were a strange group, but they had a message.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Keith Green is an artist I've just discovered who I had no idea about. He was a former rock star turned Christian, and wrote some really amazing songs before he was killed in a plane crash in his late 20s.

Here is one of them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ3lv...ayer_embedded#

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Hmm, thought I'd dig it up, but there's 4 pages of "mealtime prayers," and 7 of "...prayer!"
Interesting hits, tho-yours is prolly in there somewhere?

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

I am well pleased with this kind of music. Almost all scripture from Rev. 5, 11, and 19.

Justin Rizzo Worship Team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEpR...ure=plpp_video

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

I think it was the 1960's and 70's. Of all the new songs that have come out in the past 25 years, I think "Shout to the Lord" is one of the best.
I get weary when the sing the same short chorus for 15 minutes; I liked it when they would sing a chorus for 5 minutes then move into another one. Sometimes this can be done without missing a beat.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

For worship in Church Charismatic music from the 70's to the early 90's is the ultimate. I liked the Christian Rock from the 70's through early 90's also for edification and enjoyment but not for Church. Same with Bluegrass. I really like it but not for the meeting.

I dont think any secular music should be played in the Church meetings. Now and then my wife and I play some romantic type songs like 50's doo woop. I dont think Christians should make a habit of secular music.

I also have a playlist of songs from my youth that tho not specifically Christian they did point me to believe in Christ.

As to modern music the only thing that really moves me much in recent years is Misty Edwards and some of the other IHOP artists.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

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I don't listen to many music except that which is based on the word and which praises God. There was a lot of power in the old time songs and you know what, there is a lot of power in the old time songs.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

KeptByTheWord said: Keith Green is an artist I've just discovered who I had no idea about...

Oh I love Keith Green :) I found him a few years ago when we were sharing songs on a Christian Homesteader forum.

I like Christian music that is in a musical style I enjoy... so heavy guitar riffs, harmonica, sax... strong vocals... but yes lyrics are everything. There has to be a message that speaks to me.

Do I think 'my' music has a place in church... well...no, not really. People are so different in their tastes and styles of music that what is joy to my ears may be like fingernails on a blackboard to another. And no one should have to 'suffer' through the music.. I find that when a church gets a big music program going it tends to control the tone of fhe services and I find that disturbing.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

actually you see the same "control the tone" thing in smaller churches too...always the same certain songs gets everybody running....

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Nearly 7 years later and curch music has gone from bad to worse. Nearly every "worship leader" thinks they're on American Idol. Hard to find good church music. I'm glad to go somewhere where there's a healthy dose of hymns. I love 'em.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

We use metrical psalms almost exclusively now. Not that we're against hymns or even original compositions, but we just generally prefer God's songbook to any other. :)

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As far as music to praise and worship God in a Church setting there is a great treasure chest of music to choose from. I can listen to wonderful Youtubes for hours at a time, ranging from the 70's to present.

For my part what we have over that period of times is deeper and more spiritual than what was available in the Hymn books when I started attending Church in 1974.

Now as to just listening to Christian music not particularly in Church like KLOVE is another story. For me its difficult to listen to songs 90% of which say nothing but "God loves me with an everlasting love.....even tho I sin everyday" message.

And even then Youtube is our friend. Using it I think I could spend ALL my time finding good music from across the years.

Charismatic, Messianic, Classic Christian Rock, Bluegrass, Country and Black Gospel and Hymns.

Just my opinion of course.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Souless...milktoast white bread. But its got fancy lights....

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Can you or anyone for that matter present examples of what music you feel is souless and milktoast? I mean like posting videos of what you are either criticizing or even commending?

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

A lot has to do with the presentation, not the song itself. An example:

Years ago our family and our pastor's family visited his home church (where his pastor was). The church music group did "I Can Only Imagine." Absolutely POWERFUL, I'm talking old time revival level impact (the rest of the service turned into a two hour prayer meeting).

Couple years later we visited an AoG that was supposedly in revival with "visitors from hundreds of miles around". They did "I Can Only Imagine." Let me just say I've seen more worship at a Campbellite church with a woman "evangelist" than at that AoG.

Soulless and milquetoast.

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

you already posted some of them:happydance

Re: Music In The Modern Church
 

Be specific. Post songs that I posted that you think are "souless" or "milktoast".

See who agrees with you.

Let us see what people think is spiritual or what is carnal.

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I think arguing about which songs are spiritual and which are carnal is very carnal.

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Most any song by Hillsong, Bethel, iHOP, etc...