Machine Gun Preacher
 

anyone here seen the movie? It is based on a true story of a drug dealing biker who converts in an assembly of God church and a preacher prophesies that he will go to africa. In the movie, he is baptized in Jesus name. He starts an orphanage in southern sudan and is soon drawn into the war with the north. He takes up arms to protect children. Great story about the line between pacifism and militarism. I loved it. Here is the trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eddnloOFjwY

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Has the movie come out yet in the theaters or on DVD?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

i'm pretty sure it is out on dvd

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

You lost me at assemblies of God.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Go you therefore into all the world and kill as many as you can.
When a man smites thee on thine check, beat him into the ground.
If a man sues thee, burn down his house in the night.
If you neighbor has something against you, go to your neighbor and curse him out.
If any man asks you to walk a mile with him, tell that man he is nuts.
It is OK to lie if it will help someone.
Drink the wine while it is red before someone else does.
Steal if your children are hungry.
It's OK to cheat on your wife as long as she does not know.
Believe anything you what and bring it into your house.
Fellowship with the ungodly, maybe something from you will wear off on them.

Sorry, I was just make believeing inthe world.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

This is like the statement of faith for some AFF members. :spit

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

I'll definitely rent the DVD.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

would you still be a bible believing, sermon on the mount pacifist if someone killed your parents, raped your wife, kidnapped your children to be used as sex slaves? your self righteous hypocrisy is nauseating. this is the reality of the movie and the real life situation in sudan.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Only if it was someone else's parents, wife, or children. It is EASY to forgive someone who kills, or rapes, them.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Are you saying one could not obey Jesus Christs teachings? Would it be self righteous hypocrisy if one did?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

I don't think the teachings are meant to be literal absolutes. If you had the power to prevent a spousal rape, I think you would be justified. Sermon on the mount is about an attitude, a lifestyle. Why don't you sell all that you have and give to the poor? Is that a literal teaching or not?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Preventing a rape and taking vengence over one would be two different things. Perhaps I may be helping the poor more by what Im doing now than giving them the receipts of sale? They would not get much from it.

I have always been interested in finding a real New Testament Church that had all things common.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Well, what happen to faith? Doesn't the angel of the Lord camp around those who fear the Lord.

Doesn't Jesus send his angels to protect us? If not, I'm going to tear every page out of my bible that speaks about my Father protecting me and giving me aiuthority over the chldren of the devil !!

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

are you denying the fact that children get kidnapped and sold into sex slavery? do they fear the lord? where is the angel of the lord for southern sudan which is christian? are you saying that african christians are children of the devil? how do you explain violence in america when christians are the victim? that is the problem with taking the bible literally and not recognizing it as literature. psalms is poetry. true poetry but not literal words of god, imo. that is why people have issues with fundamentalists. why don't you go to china or iran and preach the gospel? see if god will give you authority over those children of the devil.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

i am not advocating vengeance or killing even though the preacher has killed in order to protect children. what if armed men were raping your spouse and you had access to a weapon? would you maim or kill in order to prevent? that is the message of the movie. i bet you supported w when he killed innocent women and children in the iraq war.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Maybe the Father was protecting people by sending a machine gun preacher?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

:heeheehee there is hope among apostolics. thanks for putting a smile on my face today.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

:heeheehee

After all, He sent bears to eat little children who were mocking one of his prophets - why not a machine gun preacher?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

tis true, but that doesn't explain the victims of rape and violence who are christian. where is the angel of the lord for them? i believe that just nations have a duty to defend the powerless. bomb syria!!!

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

This raises a great topic for debate. I mean, we all know that bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people.

The Bible says it rains on the just and the unjust alike. The Bible also tells us to remain strong in the faith, even during tribulation periods.

And, yet on the other hand, the Bible promises that God will protect those who love and serve him.

Seems like a conundrum wrapped in a dichotomy.......topped with a paradox.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

i agree with your assessment. i would also add all of the unanswered prayer. does god intervene in every individual situation? i think we are on our own and must fight and defend justice, mlk style.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Yea but it doesn't matter what the Bible says because it is all just literature and poetry and we are all on our own to fend for ourselves in this life according to _____. In which case I guess Christianity is just a farce.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

???

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

This shows how absolutely DEVASTATING the coming great tribulation will be for especially American type Christians. When the worlds rulers are leading the persecution and mass killing of Christians.

They were never told it would be normal for a Christian to be killed for Jesus name. They were never warned that the Jesus of scripture is a very dangerous person to love. You could be hated by all men for it! They were not taught as in scripture Jesus said himself whoever KILLS YOU will think he does God service.

No instead they are taught they are on their own. They were never taught that we overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony AND ALSO........WE LOVE NOT OUR LIVES UNTO THE DEATH!

This friends is how we overcome the devil. Not by dancing a jig. Not by "hot sermons".

Being obedient even if it means you die by the hand of the wicked. This probably needs to be taught for many months if not years to get the mind set of the Church corrected. So many will fall away in that day. Many fall away for much less.

The first principle of discipleship.

Deny your self. Take up your cross and follow Jesus.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Bump
Yea but it doesn't matter what the Bible says because it is all just literature and poetry and we are all on our own to fend for ourselves in this life according to _____. In which case I guess Christianity is just a farce.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

pilgrum, how do you explain christians suffering rape and murder while the bible says the angel of the lord encampeth around those that fear him? how do you account for millions of unanswered prayers when jesus said ask anything and you shall receive it? where are all the miracles?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Lets see; Abraham went down into the Valley of the Kings and killed women. men, children, and every living thing at the command of God. But that was in a time when, through mankind or His servants he poured out his wrath upon the children of disobedience.

The Jews suffered for 1800 years at the hands of evil rulers from every country under the sun.

Now, are you saying God doesn't answer prayers and we should take up arms and protect the innocent? Or maybe send Hollywood to do it for us.

I honestly find it hard to believe how quickly someone who professes faith can be moved by deceivement of a movie to think that Christians have the liberty at their own choice to take up arms and judge others to the point of execution.

The Bible clearly without any controversy states; Vengeance is mine saith the LORD.
It states; God is saving up His judgement against that great day. It also clearly says He shall repay evil men, not YOU.\ or, Hollywood!

[ When men take the law into their own hands many innocent people suffer, for with men they seek vengeance and not righteousness and truth.] Quoted by Austin.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

BUMP

Please explain your comments.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Look to DM to explain. I was only restating his thoughts/beliefs in my own words. It's called sarcasm.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Sorry, I can't explain. I don't know all the answers. But that doesn't negate my faith in a just God and a Book that He provided for us to help us in our journey in this life.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

This is a difficult subject. Looking at the early church, there are answers to this dilemma, but they are not easy answers, especially for the American Church today as a whole, just as Michael the Disciple says. Can you read any historical accounts of any of the apostles fighting back against the people who tried to kill them? Did any of them bear a weapon against the Jewish leaders, and Romans were were stoning, mocking, beating, scourging, burning, beheading and martyring them?

Just read Fox's Book of Martyr's for the answer to this difficult question. Many if not all of those martyrs prayed for the very people who were killing them.

How does the scenario of the early church fit into our world today?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Good points and serious food for thought.

Could we Christians today follow in their foot steps, or do we come out (or go out) with guns blazing?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Now we are making some sense!

Would Jesus stand inside my home and watch men come in a kill my wife and children and do nothing. No! he wouldn't.

He made a statement predicting his thoughts about such things.

" My Kingdom is not of this world, if it were then my servants would fight." he said that to Caesar.

If someone enters your home inside of your kingdom to cause harm to your family can you fight, yes you can. if you don't want to fight, call me I'll do it for you..

But to take up a sword against all the world, then we will surely perish, for he who
[ lives by the sword, shall also perish by the sword, is what Jesus said.]

But we have weapons that are greater than any sword or AR-15, we need to use them and we need preachers who are willing and dedicated enough to teach people the truth instead of religion.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

I'm glad I waited to throw my 3 cents in because this is exactly my view. When asking the question WWJD, it is pretty safe to say He would not kill, nor have anyone else kill in His name. But I also believe 100% He would throw His considerable approval at a man fighting to protect his family from armed (or even unarmed) intruders entering his house. He would also no doubt have some unkind words for the man who didn't defend what was his. "Coward" and "infidel" would likely be used in the description.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Agreed with RW and Austin. There is a big difference between being taken to your death because of your faith in Jesus, versus someone attacking your home with your family standing helpless, and you standing there doing nothing, because of your belief to not bear arms.

It must be remembered that David pursued hotly after his wives and children after they had been captured, and no one survived. He made sure of that. 1 Samuel 30:17-20

17 And David smote them from the twilight even unto the evening of the next day: and there escaped not a man of them, save four hundred young men, which rode upon camels, and fled.

18 And David recovered all that the Amalekites had carried away: and David rescued his two wives.

19 And there was nothing lacking to them, neither small nor great, neither sons nor daughters, neither spoil, nor any [thing] that they had taken to them: David recovered all.

20 And David took all the flocks and the herds, [which] they drave before those [other] cattle, and said, This [is] David's spoil.

There is a fine line here, protection of the innocent or dying for the faith. They are two totally different scenarios...

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

So where does the whole "turn the other cheek" thing come into play?

Here's what Jesus said in Matthew:

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

If this scripture is to be interpreted literally, wouldn't it mean that we should NOT fight back? That we should just take the physical punishment, as well as giving up all of our material possessions if someone wanted to take them from us?

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

How about this scripture then, from the mouth of Jesus himself?

Luke 22:35-38

35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here [are] two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Was Jesus here overriding his previous instructions, and telling them to go out and sell his clothing to buy a sword?

I believe the mentality that we are supposed to have is to love God, and love one another. However, if someone were to attempt to kill either myself or my kids, and my husband just stood there watching, and saying I'm going to turn the other cheek, that sounds very weak and cowardly to me. That is protection of the innocent.

However on the other hand, if we were being persecuted for the cause and name of Christ, that is a different thing don't you think? When you look at the early church, you see great suffering on the part of the apostles for the cause of Christ.

Here is another scripture in parable form but I think this also demonstrates a principle here about protecting the innocent:

Luke 12:37-39

37 Blessed [are] those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find [them] so, blessed are those servants.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

As the Lord of Hosts protects us even so should we protect ours.

To be persecuted for the sake of the gospel is a glory for those who can take it.
Jesus made it clear what glory awaits those who have die in his name and for his purpose.

Peace is what God called us to and peace is what we are, but, we are also protectors of our families.

The Holy Ghost speaking through the apostle states, if a man does not provide for his family then he is worst than an infidel. That provide for means to protect also.
Being persecuted for witnessing about Jesus is one thing, for someone to invade your home and threaten your family is another.

The story of the Amish families out in Ohio when that evil manic entered that school and shot all those children. When I saw that I was angry and had I been God I could not have waited for the last day.
But, those people right on public TV stated, they forgave that man and hoped that God would have mercy on him.
Wow, that took more than I could have said....

I think we need to seek the power of Jesus over our lives and our families lives. We need to enter into a level with the Holy Ghost where the power of God is over the powers of the spiritual evils of this world.

Jesus had power over evil men. His disciples told him that men were going to kill him, and he replied with, no man takes my life from me.
How many times did Jesus walk right through the angry crowds and they did not perceive where he was or where he went.
This is what we need as we see evil growing in the world.

Call down the power.
Call down the angels.
Call upon the hosts of heaven.
Declare the blood of Jesus to the devil.
Take your authority that Jesus gave you and use it and quit believing what that preacher is saying when he says it doesn't exist anymore. He's on the other side, don't believe him.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

So, Christians have to take the law into their hands and kill people? Talk about hypocrisy.

Re: Machine Gun Preacher
 

Great thoughts!