What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Everybody has favorite scriptures, seems like. How about the other end of the spectrum? Not saying you have any that you really don't like (though you may!), but come on. You have to like some less than others, and maybe way less! ;)

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

2 Samuel 19:24

24 And Mephibosheth the son of Saul came down to meet the king. He had neither taken care of his feet nor trimmed his beard nor washed his clothes, from the day the king departed until the day he came back in safety.

dirty feet with gnarly toe nails are disgusting

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Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

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:ursofunny

That's one scripture I must have overlooked...or at the least did not pay attention to it.

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Boy this is difficult.

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Too many to pick just one? :heeheehee

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Well it's hard to think of the scripture in a negative fashion.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Then you don't see dirty feet and gnarly toenails as negative?:heeheehee

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BTW, glad to see you again brother Scott. :nod

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

(Cue Ray Stevens) Everything is beautiful, in its own way. :lol

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Yes that I see as negative. A person having the name DODO seems negative to me.

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Romans 16:16
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

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Isaiah 20:2

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

eating poop . . .

Ezekiel 4:9-12

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Judges 10:1

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1 Kings 16:11

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This is my least favorite passage of Scripture:

Numbers 5:11-31 (NIV)
11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the LORD cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the LORD and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

Could you imagine being a woman in this situation? Even if she was unfaithful, this would be absolutely horrifying, and I'd not want to see her go through this. Forcing a woman to drink water that would produce a miscarrying womb. That's just horrible to me.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Exodus 19:13
"Thou shalt not kill."

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Stomps a mudhole in divorce, eh? OT FTW.

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And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: Deut. 28:53

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Another sad sad story...

Judges 19:22-30

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down [at] the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

I talked to a lady one time who was raised in India, and married an American and moved over to America. She tried to convert to Christianity, she was telling me. But then she said she began to read the Bible, and such terrible things in it that she couldn't stand to read it any more. She mentioned this story in the Bible. She told me she would rather not believe in a God that would allow this kind of stuff.... I talked to her for a long while trying to convince her otherwise, but this story really did her in, and she wanted not much more to do with the Bible... at that point anyway.... I pray that someday she will be able to see that there is more to the Bible than that story!

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

I have a dear friend who is an atheist. She is very educated with a Ph.D. in psychology and a M.S. in Biology. She works in neuroscience. She says the same thing about the Bible. She has read it and finds it horrifying and has said that if that is God she never, ever, ever wants to meet him.

Still for years she has kept our dialog open about spiritual things, so I have hope. I recently sent her a copy of a Bible study I was doing and she sent me bake a website called evil bible dot com (warning it is full of profanity). It has been interesting to read what atheists think about something that I consider the core of my being and where I first learned about a lot of scriptures that are never taught in church.... but some of these scriptures you guys are quoting are REALLY freaking me out even more than the website... ewwww....

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What a horrific story. :( :( :(

I think it's important to remind people that the Bible isn't just the "Word of God"; its also a book of records and history. An event being recording in the Bible isn't equivalent to God's endorsement of whatever took place in the story.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Anybody like Numbers 31 less than the rest of the Bible? :)

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Psalm 22



1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the LORD,” they say,
“let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, LORD, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

There are many scriptures, especially in the OT, which are troubling to me, some have been posted in the thread. The question is, how are they reconciled with a loving God? How could such atrocities be Godly in any way? Personally, I have to settle in my heart that the stories are accurate, when they write 'God said to kill, pillage, ect.', is that what God actually told them to do?

I've wrestled with this from several views over the years and finally settled on the view that they are accurate stories reflecting God's instructions, like it or not. What one must realize is that the culture and behavior of the time was one of killiing, pillaging, ect. and for a group to survive, those things were part of survival. The Israelites weren't unique in their survival actions, they weren't different than any of the other groups who were also in survival by destroying their enemies mode. It's interesting that few, if any, point out the behavior of any other group who conquered through violent warlike actions, but because it's our God who's involved in the survival of a group of people who are doing the same as other groups, the actions are rejected and condemned.

If I had lived during that time, knew the hatred and cruelty of my enemies, I believe I would have participated in the actions recorded in those stories of the Old Testament. My survival, my family's survival and my nation's survival would have depended on it. While our survival isn't dependent on such actions today, for the world has changed tremendously since that time, I still participate in the protection of my survival, my family's survival and my nation's survival in the manner of current society and will continue to do so to whatever actions and level I need to assure that enemies don't destroy us.

Societies have changed, the world has changed and we're many times judging these least favorite scriptures through concepts and ideas which aren't acceptable in our time but were necessary in aeons past.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

True. However, this is a perscribed trial by ordeal for a woman who is suspected of infidelity.

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Contrary to what you are saying, I am finding that the stories recalled here are recorded as being sanctioned by God. Just the fact that these stories were preserved for posterity is disturbing... And I think that many/most Christians have absolutely no idea what is those never discussed/never taught pages and would have no idea how to reconcile them with this loving God we present today.

I mean I am willing to admit right here that I certainly don't. Horrible, just horrible :(

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I agree with a lot of your post. In a way, we're judging what had to be done in ancient times through the lense of Christ and Christian love and grace. Yes, it looks terrible on this side of Grace. But God chose to preserve a nation that would preserve His word and bring forth Messiah. That often required desperate measures. God knew it wouldn't last. He knew He would reveal Himself in Christ Jesus and bring a better covenant.

I praise God that I live on this side of the cross.

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A lot of this is "caselaw". It's just the legal code of an ancient society. It's not designed to be uniquely spiritual, though spiritual truths can be gleaned from some principles in the law. Imagine if someone read our civil code involving the electric chair about 2000 years from now. The stipublations of conviction, chair design, required contraints, voltage, required damage to the body needed to bring death, etc. It would sound VERY barbaric to them no doubt. But it's legal code.

A lot of what we're reading here is the legal code of an ancient nation. God took a race of slaves and gave them a law by which to govern themselves in the world they lived in. The law, as a whole, wasn't designed to make one righteous.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Really? And then what do we do with "I am God, I change not"? I do not believe that this kind of behavior could have ever been acceptable to a loving, moral being.

I am much more inclined to believe that the Bible is corrupt. That it has been used to further an agenda and altered at the whim of man from time immemorial. Anyone who can not see the the hundreds and even thousands of discrepancies in our modern versions of 'the Bible' lives in denial, IMO. I am sure that that Israel's elite had an agenda that included wanting to be seen as fierce and supported by the most high God in their ferocity and so wrote their stories so slanted in some cases.

I see that God does not today keep anyone from corrupting His 'word' and I have no reason to believe that he did so in the past either. Where we ever got the idea that there is an 'incorruptible' book I am not sure. I would guess that it comes from the same place as nonexistent concepts like the immortal soul, man's imagination.

I believe that a lot of what Jesus Christ spent his time trying to tell us was that traditions, writings (even ancient dusty ones), leaderships opinions, etc. really don't matter in the same way that living this life fully engaged and loving and helping humanity does.

I have no problem admitting that I have never given stories like this more than a cursory glance. I find them repulsive and not a reflection of the God that I know and love intimately at all. I was grossed out and completely freaked by reading them here. Again ewwww....

Not trying to rock anyone's boat, just being honest...

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

And yet these type of things still go on in this world. The first family had a murderer in their midst. Instead of trying to do better, Cain murdered his brother.

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We see God only dealing with a nation in the OT. When dealing with individuals, like the harlot in Jericho, or King David, we see a different side of God. We have to realize that God's morality isn't expressed in the law. Just as our morality isn't expressed in the United States civil codes of law. Law is only present to stabilize society and to protect life, liberty, and property. It says nothing of morality or spiritual things.

We truly only see God for the first time, as He desires to be known one on one, in Jesus Christ. The law was abolished... the nation judged. Now the door is open for all men to see the forgiving and gracious God who forgave David and saved the harolot in Jericho.

I want to revisit this statement:

First, we'd have to properly define "loving" and "moral". For example, God allowed for multiple wives and concubines. Is it a moral thing to allow people to live privately as they choose, in relationships as they choose, as long as they are not harming or abusing one another? If so, God isn't immoral by allowing multiple wives and mistresses. However, is it moral to govern man's passions and restrict him to only having a single wife as seen in the NT?

I see two distinct kinds of morality expressed here. The OT expresses a civil and social morality. Yes, allow people to live as they choose (freedom) and govern them so as to prevent and/or punish abuse. Thus wives and concubines had certain rights protecting them and their children. That's socially moral. However, in the NT, we see a personal morality to espire to as individuals. Ah.... God is now dealing with us one on one.

So we see two distinct categories of morality expressed in Scripture. What is just for a nation and to preserve a stable society isn't always what is personally moral. Take freedom of the press or speech. Is it moral to allow people to publish things we find obsene? Yes, on a social level. However, on a personal moral level... we do well to stay away from those things.

Eh... maybe I'm not making any sense. lol

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Which is more likely?

1. God ordered the carnage, and His chosen people obeyed. God couldn't or wouldn't choose a way to protect and lead His people that was significantly different from methods used by the barbaric nations they faced.

2. A people called themselves "God's chosen", used the methods common to that time and place, and attributed the carnage to God's orders. Perhaps others did, too, but the winners got to write the Book.

Did you know that some Christian sects reject the OT? Some go so far as to say the God of the OT is a different God than in the NT.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

And when it is recorded that God ordered, say, the slaughter of every man, woman, and child (except the young girls, who were taken as spoils of war), do you take that as true? Did God really give that order, or did someone (Moses, in the case of Num 31) make it up, as an excuse to commit atrocities?

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Remember, those nations were enemies of the creator. They had rejected Him and decended into paganism and debauchery.

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That was how the story was recorded by the victors, yes, and I never said otherwise. Could God not be expected to provide protection for His people any other way than to fight fire with fire, so to speak?

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

No more so than people in general today. Would it also now be acceptable to just 'kill them all and let God sort them out'?

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There's a different dynamic when it is a justifiable recompense, albeit an extreme response IMO, than when we're talking about the recording of a woman being unjustly abused and murdered.

There are obviously multiple accounts in scripture where God imposed violent consequences for what He viewed as effrontery or disobedience. However, I don't find examples of those instances when it wasn't justifiable from God's perspective of the absolute. Eye for an eye seems to be God's OT motif; Divine approval of a cowardly man handing his concubine over to abusers to save his own skin and then cutting her into pieces to express his outrage over her abuse--not so much His thing.

Re: What's your least favorite scripture?
 

Timmy... don't you know the Bible? This is a dumb question. You're wrongfully accusing God. I'll share my perspective...

When God led Israel out of Egypt He protected them supernaturally. When Israel entered the promised land He protected them and subdued their enemies before them supernaturally. It wasn't until after they became a nation that something changed... the people wanted a human king. God warned them through the prophet that a human king would tax them and send their sons and daughters into war. They wanted a king anyway. As soon as they got a human king we see Israel increasingly leaning on their own military might and prowess. We also see them drift from God and sink into the mire of sin and idolatry. As they departed from trusting God... God's hand began to withdraw from them. Soon... military might was all Israel was left to depend on. God promised to fight their battles and protect them... IF THEY RETURNED TO HIM AND TRUSTED HIM. But they refused. The prophets repeatedly rebuke them for this. The prophets also rebuke them for not doing what God said was necessary while trusting in their military might. It was all bad all around because Israel wanted to be a nation like every other nation... but with God's assistance. God tolerated this non-sense until He began sending foreign powers to dominate them and bring them to their knees in repentance. In the NT we see that God sent the Messiah and as a last act of defiance against God's rulership... they murdered Him upon a cross. God then swiftly judged the nation, destroying it through the Romans in AD 70.

The stories of the OT are not easily understood by people who don't understand the over all theme of the Bible. Much of the war and bloodshed seen in the Bible is the result of Israel not trusting God and rebelling against Him as their King. God tolerated their choice, tried to help them, and even gave them instructions on what to do on several occasions, each occasion proving that they were NOT in the will of God.

You're wrongfully accusing God Timmy. And why would victors write a holy book that only accentuates their spiritual failure as they grew in power through military conquest? Why would victors write about how their own God brought the world's greatest powers against them to bring them to repentance because of their own evil???

This entire premise is ignorant baloney. The OT accentuates what SHOULDN'T happen. Not what God wants to happen. It's a tragic story. Not a story of victory and glory. A tragic story of a stiff necked, rebellions, pride driven, nation that wanted God's blessings... but not His guidance. A nation worthy of judgment. An example to us... of what NOT to become.