Great changes are coming...
 

For me. Since being a part of this forum and not because of this forum I have gone through mutliple levels of change in my spiritual walk. Right now is no different. I have come to a place where all that I know in the head doesn't match what the heart feels. It's a scary place to be and I don't know wherethe end result will leave me. I have many, too many questions that in my head I have an answer for, but in my heart I have not been able to reconcile. I have privately communicated with a one or two of you on this matter and thank you for listening and for all the advise. Now I am taking this to a public forum...sorta public that is. Most of you all know I have changed my name on here recently. If you didn't know, my avatar is the same as before and all my info is still intact so you should know who I am.

I am sure each of you reading this have been through something akin to this. Whether it was going Lib to Con and back to Lib or whatever. I may be a different person upon completion of this journey...maybe for the better, maybe not depending on where you are standing and looking from. I know that at the end I hope to be able to sleep better at night and feel better. For too long, even after I left the UPC I have felt a bit of anxiety when talking about my spiritual life and/or spiritual walk. I know who I am, I know what my wants are for my spiritual life. Only a few people really, I mean really know me...those that do would tell you I am a very loyal friend, ferociously in fact. I know that won't change, but all other things may...I am scared and also very interested where this will leave me in the end.

God Bless!

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Well, this sort of begs the question of "What direction are you headed?"

You been reading the Koran?

Been to an Amish barn raising?

Listening to George Norey too much???

Get a big load of incense at Maundy Thursday Mass?

Been feeding the Spirit Guides too much?

Considering a sex change?

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Hope he's not disbanding U2!

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I trust in Jesus. I pray. I listen. I'm not worried

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All the above except the last one. Too pricey. LOL

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No, but I am coming out with a new Country album. It'll be called Irish Country Boy. I'm doing a remake of the Ricky Skaggs hit, "Country Boy At Heart."

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NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO, actually, that might be kinda cool. If Aerosmith can do Gospel awesomely.... :lol

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You really need to stay open minded on all your options... We will start a Jack Shephard SC Fund ASAP.

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LOL

I am very open-minded for sure. But all kidding aside...this really does scare me because things are chagning at a rapid pace and it is a lot to handle. But I am sure I will be able to handle it.

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I hear you. I am sure it could be scarey... You started a thread... Are you wanting to really discuss your thoughts on this or just bounce the idea of changing in general?

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

I think many times this feeling you might be describing in general is maybe God backling away from us so that we may grow out to Him, is the way I've heard it described.

I trust "you are hedged about" here, and much more so after a similar episode recently. If I had any advice, it would be trust those possibly scary inclinations of Spirit, trust that you are closely held there.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

I don't exactly know. There are some people on here lurkers and otherwise that know who I am off of here and they could cause some issues for me or at least ones that issues that could make my family feel weird.

Nothing I am talking about, or sort of talking about here is illegal or something that I could get into trouble other. However, there can be a lot of hurt feelings and last damage to some people I care about.

The best way I can say it without 'spilling the beans' is that it seems that all I have known, spiritually and somewhat none spiritually is being flipped in it's head. Example, we all know what it is like to walk on our feet or if someone has never walked a step in their life, but have spent it all in a wheel chair and then suddenly that condition has changed and they now have to walk on their hands the rest of their life then everything is completely upside down and completely awkward. That is how it is is a spiritual sense for me here. Many, most or if not all of my thoughts and ideology has adjusted and it is something that I am almost convienced about and that means big changes...

Sorry for the run on thought there.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

See there in lies the rub some. I don't know if I have a hedge really or that the or a spirit is leading me other anymore than my eyes starting to see things a bit more clearly than ever. Because of this most of the things I knew or held dear to me is or has changed. I mean some things in radical ways that I know would be counter to many individuals view on those topics. It's strange to feel this way...

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Jack, do you have a wife and/or children in the home?

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Yes to both.

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For me, that would be an absolute primary determining factor in how to proceed in your evolution of spiritual thought/practice.

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I dunno. I evolved without my wife's agreement or following. But we worked it out. We believe what works for us, and respect each other's choices. (Well, to some extent. ;))

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Our emotions are sometimes what satan uses against us the most. Let me tell you a proverb... from proverbs muahahaha

Proverbs 28:26
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

Trust in god and don't worry about whatever happens. Whatever happens will happen good or bad it's how you deal with it that makes the difference.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

When I came into the church, the first two months, my wife got kidnapped and held at gunpoint (she was a census worker for a while). I got into massive amounts of debt and so many things started happening to me. But that just proved that the move I made was the right one, It wouldn't have happened if I didn't make the choice to do so. Satan likes to keep us ensnared and worried by the fears of the world. A grain of doubt can destroy everything if its nurtured enough.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Jack, I have your new avatar ready... hope it works for you! ;)

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...33_DR_PIC2.jpg

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I would agree this can work to an extent... though I would argue respect means deferring some (or perhaps even most) of my rights and "choices" to procure the sacred unity and stability of the home.

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Not sure what you mean.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Practical terms...

Let's say I decided to convert to Catholicism. No one would argue I don't have that right. I am an American adult and can certainly make my own choices.

I am saying it would be better to procure the sacred unity and stability of my home and family, than to thoroughly disrupt the faith traditions I have taught them in the past.

Now, if the family is moving at the same pace, things might be different.

I am saying that, to me, family is a sacred institution and deserves our primary respect and consideration.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Ah! I see. In fact, I did that for a while, kind of. I kept going to church even after pretty much turning away from "the faith", basically for reasons you give. But eventually, I decided it didn't really help to go through the motions. Not that I lied to anyone about what I believed (it just didn't come up in conversations much. ;)), but it bothered me to sit there and hear these sermons that I really didn't buy, anymore. So I quit going.

Most of my kids were grown and going their own way, so that's a factor, I suppose. If the kids were still small, I don't know, maybe I would have done things differently.

Anyway, I see what you're saying, and I agree that one's family is very important. More important than religion. ;)

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

That is awesome!!!!!

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Timmy, this is my major concern. With regards to my spouse we have conversations that with be of a different nature than the ones that my lil girl and I will have. I worry much, much more about my lil girl than my wife in this respect. If my wife could function in life without me if she had to, but my lil girl couldn't quite do the same. That statement wasnt so much about the wife and I, but more so about my concern for my lil one.

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Ya know, it's funny, when I was in church, everyone said that the husband is the spiritual leader of the family. Now that I'm out, nobody ever mentions that! :lol

(Edit: not that you're on your way out or anything. I'm just sayin'. :))

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Funny you mention that because I may be on my way out. Prophet Timmy ;).

I think I know how and where this ends. It's bad, but it's counter to how and where I am now. I found myself becoming someone I've feared be becoming because of what the naysayers would think. But I don't really care anymore. Idk why exactly I feared this, but it's not what I thought it would look like or feel like. I know some people will leave me, but if they leave they werent meant to stay in the end.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Jack,
it's very hard to comment on this in open forum with the limited informatiOn you have given. Please don't do anything hurtful to you or those who love you and are close to you.

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As long as your not turning into a liberal Dem, I'm good. :)

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True. That would be a terrible thing!:highfive

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Uh oh....


Not happening.... I don't think.

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I have no plans to hurt anyone.

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It's funny how the image we have of turning to God is "to the Light," when I'm pretty sure (but don't know why) that bliss to God is pitch dark and silence (like silence one virtually cannot achieve here)

I'm struck by how Hoovie's answer seems to negate "hate your family" here, to me, and, although this will surely cause me to go look in the mirror for a while, have to go with Timmy's answer, in spirit anyway...although I wouldn't toss the baby just yet, I would expect that your baby is growing, and like what Dalton said a couple pages back--

I stepped off a cliff, similar to the one I see you looking at, a couple of years ago; but then, I have no dependents. "It's bad" How do you know? It's bad like surgery is bad, imo. "Yea, though I walk through the valley..." you have to walk through the valley for this to apply.

Some great advice, prolly, that just came to me (God's Psychiatry, Charles L. Allen) is to say the 23rd Psalm, 5 times a day, thoughtfully. Like a prescription. No cheating after you memorize. Thoughtfully. He claims that one's life will be altered in a week.

We have completely smothered the "Via Negativa" here, which is what Timmy trumpets right now, imo. Amen. A kernel of wheat has to fall and die to grow. I pray God's will for you.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

So you have seen the light on Universalism??? Hey, there is life after hell fire and brimestone.

However, if you are coming out of the other closet, I recommend a book by Jim Reynolds: "Lepers Among Us', available on Amazon.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Byrd,

No it does not negate Christ's instruction to "hate your family".

Assuming Jack Shephard's family is presently "in Christ", I see two possibilities happening.

1. Jack is moving to a new, deeper, different understanding in his Christian walk.
If this is the case, "hating your family" would not apply since both are in Christ. Love and respect is in order first. Your own pursuits and personal explorations of your journey are a distant second to the God given obligation to protect the sacred unity of the family. Therefore the couple moves and grows together, and major decisions affecting the family are made as one.

2. If Jack is moving away and outside Christ (and I am not saying this is the case!) then the scriptures are no longer sacred, and the "hate your family" instruction is a moot point.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Well, everyone must interpret this for themselves. I would disagree at the bolded, quite strongly actually, especially if you are a man. This defines "hate your family," for me. your "family's" unity derives from their acceptance of your authority; and, they should be relying on the same source, ultimately.

Your family is surely way too spoiled, anyway; it'll be good for them : )
My feeling here is "kiss 'em goodbye!" with a "I'm following God, wherever He leads; you are free to follow (your obligation to me as the head of the fam), or not! Hosanna, baby.

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I do disagree. If both husband and wife are Christian, then love and respect is the primary consideration. The husband directs and leads like a good pastor, but never arbitrarily imposes his choices in secondary issues just because he can. Love demands deference over rights.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Sure. One now must decide what issues are "secondary,"
in the context of "Count the cost."
Surely most would advocate your decisions here-
is what I read.
God demands preference over family.
This is the essence of "Hate your family."
"This is a hard teaching..." and
"You do not want to leave me, too, do you?"

This is the Good News.
Jump off that cliff, and don't even worry about holding your nose, imo.
If you want to show your wife true respect, give her a kiss,
and tell her to go take a leap, too. Your relationship will def turn.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

I respect and honor my wife's spiritual discernment at least as much as my own. Even when we come to different conclusions... So I do not "tell her" to take any leaps of faith. If that makes me a weak person, or ineffective leader so be it. The "hating" one's family only comes into play when loving God is prevented by the family.

Re: Great changes are coming...
 

Ya, it's easier to spout when you're single, lol.