600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,1713215.story

"During one particularly violent weekend last month, 49 people were shot — 10 of them fatally, including a 6-year-old girl as she sat between her mom's legs on the family's Little Village front porch. The violence was largely concentrated on the South and Southwest sides."

Illinois does not issue concealed weapon permits. Time to rethink it??

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Our leaders want to take gun rights away. Oh right now it is the big one like AR 15s and AK47s but it will trickle down to handguns.

How many criminals will give up their guns because the government says so?

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

None. But then again the elites in Gov care nothing about the safety of its citizens other than they want the citizens to THINK they care (more then the other guy).

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

We have FAR more guns in AZ due to our liberal open and concealed carry laws and yet we have no were NEAR the number of gun crimes that the city of Chicago has, even with the active Mexican drug violence which is spilling across our Southern border.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Black on Black or Black on White crime doesnt matter, only white on Black.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

What does this sound like ?
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.co...tist/id14.html

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

The criminals don't care if they use their guns on the citizenry, but if they know that some will fire back, they think twice about going in with their guns ablazing.

I just wonder if this mess in Florida may have something to do with Florida's "stand your ground" law possibly being rescinded?

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

More guns in Arizona with fewer gun crimes does not mean more guns in Chicago would equate to fewer gun crimes. But you done know this Randy..

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I would argue the other way... a criminal is more likely to carry a gun if he knows citizens are carrying guns and a criminal is more likely to shoot a gun if he is placed in a flight or fight situation which would happen more often with citizens that carry guns.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Instead of confiscation of guns why not prosecution to the full extent of the law for gun law violations?

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I really think you may be wrong on this. When these thugs start wondering whether the granny has a 9mm they will think twice about robbing her house and popping her on the way out to avoid recognition.

The key is getting more guns into the hands of law abiding citizens. It does work.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

People that break into houses rarely do so when the person is at home... just sayin ;)

But in any case... I was talking about the number of gun crimes and not the number of crimes total.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Yeah me too. Gun crimes go down when and where law abiding citizens are armed.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

The thugs in places like Chicago already have guns. Your just wanting to take away any 'right' for an Innocent civilian to either defend themselves or even make it less likely that they be attacked if the attacker knows they are armed. Our Rights come from our Creator, not from our Lord and Messiah Nikolia Obama.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

It is a stat that holds true in every single case. Every one.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Even if that was 100% true and I suspect it's not you always must remember that coorelation does not equal causation. It could be that those communities are low crime to begin with and so the added presence of more guns actually somewhat increases that communities already very low number of shootings and fatal confrontations.

Of course this brings another thought to mind... When someone says "gun crimes" does that phrase mean actual shootings or just crimes where a gun is involved and maybe not actually shot?

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I've read that Houston has a higher crime rate than most other large cities. How can that be when Houston is in Texas, the state with quite possibly the most liberal gun laws available?

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I think we should get rid of the CCW permit and make it an OCW only. Make everyone that wants to carry a gun open carry. That way, criminals can see who has a gun before they commit a crime. I would think this would deter a lot of criminal activities. It would also let me know who I want to stay away from.

Most of the CCW people I know are responsible enough to have the permit and are fairly cool headed, but my concern is I only know a tiny fraction of CCW'ers personally.

I view CCW the same way as I view shooting in general. You are only as safe as those you are shooting with. Carrying a gun is A-ok, I just want to know who has them and who doesn't.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

It does have a few benifits - but open carry does not work as well. You would know who has a gun - yes. But so would the criminals. It actually negates the best benefits of carrying a gun - that is the suprise factor. The weak widow, or the frail mother with two children is an easy target.... Or is she?!?

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Btw open carry is and has been legal in most states. It was the conceal carry laws that sharply dropped crime in most states.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I know open carry is legal in most states, it is in mine. I would just rather make it a standard instead of concealed carry.

In your weak widow case, a criminal is probably going to accost her if she does not have a gun on her hip anyways. 99% of criminals aren't going to think she has a gun in her purse, and they probably wouldn't think she could use it if she did. Making her open carry instead of concealed carry takes away the suspense, and if other people around her are carrying openly also, the criminal is going to want no part of that situation.

Mainly though, I just want to see who has a firearm and who doesn't, so I can make a judgment of being in their vicinity or not.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Some might say the "beauty" of it would be, the criminal might be out of commision.

You are thinking different than I. I would rather be closer to a trained, packing individual than not.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

If we ever meet, just stay near me and you'll be safe. :)

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I would much rather be around a trained, packing individual also. That is why I am around myself so much.

However, I don't have as much faith in everyone else. Most of the CCW training classes only cover the bare minimum that is required. Just in talking to people during breaks in my class kind of put me at unease with most of them. It is kind of like being at dinner and seeing a table drink a couple of bottles of wine. That is cool if they want to do that, but I definitely make sure I finish my meal and leave before they can get to their car.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I say quit overcrowding the jails with non-violent drug offenses and put some real teeth and time into the gun laws. Anyone caught illegally carrying a firearm is a much more dangerous threat to others and society as a whole. I'm sick and tired of murderers and such walking in less than ten years because of overcrowding when half of the people we are crowding the prisons with are because of our "war on drugs".

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I'm not surprised.

Just doing a Google Street View of various streets in Inglewood/Washington Park, a suburb on Chicago's south side, would probably reveal where many of these shootings have taken place...

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Criminals will love it when the government takes away the rights of people to own guns. Then they will not have to sell as much dope to our kids because there will be an under ground market for weapons which will bring more money.

When they feel like breaking into your house at night and stealing everything you have they will not fear as much.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

'

How about the alcohol and drunk drivers, don't forget to include them in with the drug users. I'm sure they are non violent and don't mean to hurt anyone.

Where we live probably 85 % of the people own guns. Around 35 % of them carry weapons. We haven't had anyone shot yet. So what is the real problem?

Shooting people over drug deals and robbery to get drugs, and anything else you want..

Theys need to put these criminals out into the highways, parks, public areas and make them work instead of laying up in some prison and waiting for their weekend with their lover in the Tax Payer Motel.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I think that you unwittingly tied into the irony that my previous post suggests. Drunk driving is a huge problem, yet alcohol is perfectly legal.

My point is that Prohibition and pseudo wars on drugs (I don't have the time to get into that) can create more social issues than they solve if it is not approached correctly. "Shooting people over drug deals in Chicago" is the new "shooting people over liquor deals in Chicago".

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I have to say I am not entirely convinced, but I heard the great conservative William F Buckley give a speech that included his endorsement for legalization of drugs.

He had some pretty good arguments as I recall.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

Here, eat this brownie and I'll convince you.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I am opposed to the legalization of drugs. Maybe pot... but not hardcore drugs.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

I don't know, it is kind of like Ron Paul's argument on the morning after pill and birth control. If birth control is legal and available over the counter, then the morning after pill should be as well, since it is just a stronger dose of birth control.

People have a right to do what they want to in their own homes, as long as it does not hurt anyone else. We legalize nicotine and alcohol, VERY strong drugs, yet criminalize marijuana and LSD.

We could possibly look towards Portugal as a case study. They decriminalized all drugs in 2001 along with implementing new treatment policies, and now their problematic drug users are down by half.

Re: 600+ Gun Casualties in Chicago 1st Quarter
 

...and that doesn't even include what happens when you take a very dangerous and lucrative black market off the streets.