salvation by works
 

can someone explain the difference between living in communion with the hs and salvation by works? is there a difference between communion with the hs and holiness standards? can u be in communion with the hs and not follow standards?

Re: salvation by works
 

Yes...spending quality time with the Lord. Being intimate with Christ and communing with him daily...your life will become RADICALLY be different.

Re: salvation by works
 

what is hs?

Re: salvation by works
 

I'm assuming it means holy spirit.

Re: salvation by works
 

What are "standards"?

Re: salvation by works
 

What is "salvation"? ;)

Re: salvation by works
 

What is love?

http://bushluv.tripod.com/roxbury/rstone.jpg

Re: salvation by works
 

Luk 1:77
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

This is salvation...

Re: salvation by works
 

OK.

Re: salvation by works
 

Christ seemed to do pretty well at it.

Re: salvation by works
 

I can only share what I have come to believe about this. Many disagree with me, and I’m still learning. I’ll share a bit about myself. I was born again in an ultra-conservative church. No jewelry, not even wedding bands, no television, no shorts on men, sleeves had to be long on male and female, neck line no lower than the collar bones, skirts/dresses no higher than two inches about the ankle (mid shin was acceptable at times), no non-Christian music, had to pay tithes to be in “good standing”, 5% offering STRONGLY encouraged, no colored shirts… men had to wear white button up shirts (long sleeve and must have pocket), no make-up, no cutting hair for women, hair had to be blocked on men (tapered was considered risky), no motorcycles, … I could go on, and on, and on. I eventually left that church for a more moderate church with standards on much of the above, just more well balanced. I faced a storm in my life that drove me from the church into a very personal walk. I dropped all “standards of men” and embraced the Ten Commandments. This led to a desire for Sabbath keeping. God began to deal with me…even striving to keep the Ten Commandments was legalism.

This may shock many. But God’s desire for each and every one of us is NOT to make us “good Pentecostals” or “good Baptists” or “good whatever’s” so that we can go to Heaven. God’s goal isn’t even to make you a “good person” or even a “better person”. This is a tragic misunderstanding among most Christians that I know. God’s singular desire is that you be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus in your very person. Following all the rules of a pastor, church, denomination, or religion will only conform you into the image of that pastor, church, denomination, or religion. All the rules in the world will not conform you into the likeness of Jesus. Jesus is the true Christian’s standard. We are to become ever increasingly like Him in all things. This is done through our spiritual communion with the Holy Spirit.

You see, when you were born again, God’s Spirit filled your entire being. Not like water fills a glass…but like water fills a sponge. The Holy Spirit began to permeate your very being at the spiritual level. Now, you’re human spirit is “merged” with the very Spirit of God. Just as Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Him, now He (through the Spirit) resides in you. You are one with God as Christ was. Your sins atoned by his blood. The wrath that is rightfully yours was propitiated by His suffering and death upon the cross. So you are deemed sinless and worthy to be one with God, through Christ Jesus, by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Now, you must cultivate that union with Christ via the Spirit until He fills your heart, thoughts, and actions. This is dawning the mind of Christ. You are to become a manifestation of Jesus in you. Just as I am becoming a manifestation of Jesus in me. We now are sons of God. Through this union we partake in the divine nature. The natural result are spiritual gifts and a hunger and thirst for righteousness. However, the soul (mind) must be renewed through the study of the Word of God. Your body will be glorified later at the resurrection. Until then, you struggle with the works of the flesh that desire to rise up in you. However, if this union with Christ is cultivated…you will bear the fruit of the Spirit which are:

love
joy
peace
longsuffering
gentleness
goodness
faith
meekness
temperance

Notice, I’ve not spoken about “law keeping”, “standards”, or “rule keeping”. Are there rules to the Christian life? YES! Jesus explained that the entire law and the prophets are founded upon two fundamental principles. These two principles are commandments that we are expected to keep. These commandments are greater than any law or standard, and they require far more. The first is that we are to love God with all our being. The second is that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves. That’s all. You might ask about the Ten Commandments. Well… they are insufficient to conform you into the image of Jesus. Why? Because while the Law commands you not to have other gods, worship idols, blaspheme, neglect worship, dishonor parents, lie, steal, commit adultery, kill, or covet… you can do all those things without loving. I might easily choose not to steal from my neighbor…but that doesn’t mean that I love them. However, if I love them… I’ll not steal from them. If I love God I will not have other gods, idols, blaspheme, or neglect worship. So the Ten Commandments are fulfilled in this one word… love.

What about standards? Certainly we must be modest right? Yes. But a dress code doesn’t produce modesty. Modesty is far deeper. I’ve known very immodest women wear modest clothing. Again the key is love. If you love your neighbor you will not dress in an offensive or tempting manner. You will not wear anything that would be offensive or tempting. Allow the Holy Ghost to check your spirit about things. So we have no dress codes, dietary codes, Ten Commandments, or standards. We are called to love. And to love liberally and unconditionally. We are to love the unloveable. We are to even love our enemies.

Why? Because in this we become like Jesus.

I pray that answers your questions.

Re: salvation by works
 

thanks for your post aquila, great stuff. i was asking the question mainly to people like DA, who talk about salvation by grace alone, how communion with hs fits into their soteriology. I agree with you that communion is the ultimate goal and essence of new covenant.

Re: salvation by works
 

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Grace makes us want to turn away from worldly lusts...if a person says he's under grace so he's living anyhow, i wonder what sort of "grace" that is. Grace empowers us to live above sin

So from my perspective of grace, I believe salvation is by grace through faith alone. Nothing else can be added to the work of Christ...The work of Christ was perfect. God sees the blood of his Son as righteous enough to purchase our redemption.

Heb 10:14 (NKJV) For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Since the blood of Christ is enough, how then ought we to live?

2 Cor 5
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

1 Pet 4
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Re: salvation by works
 

Re: salvation by works
 

A pox on standards.

Re: salvation by works
 

Re: salvation by works
 

Galatians 5:16
" I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."
Paul got it wrong, he should have wrote "Walk according to Standards...." eh?


:doggyrun

Re: salvation by works
 

We can talk about love, but many of us, including myself become a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal when one disagrees with the other...especially on the subjects of religion and politics.

I think the real test of love is does the person love you after you disagree with them? Will we look at our brother and sister through the eyes of Jesus?

Re: salvation by works
 

Re: salvation by works
 

Does this work for you?

Re: salvation by works
 

Can you walk in the Spirit if you are not born of the Spirit? And if you were born of the Spirit, wouldn't you naturally walk in the Spirit?

Re: salvation by works
 

What is quality time with the Lord and non quality time with the Lord? Isn't any time with the Lord, all good? What is RADICALLY be different?

Re: salvation by works
 

You must have some strong pull with the devil. I am going to have to ask the Lord about you.

Re: salvation by works
 

The truth is you are so far from it...the correct answer and explanation to your questions would be a waste of someone's time.

Re: salvation by works
 

You will never achieve it.

Re: salvation by works
 

No this is not salvation. Who teaches you? You need to find another.

Re: salvation by works
 

A barrier set by God that you cannot passover.

Re: salvation by works
 

Something you have yet to achieve.

Re: salvation by works
 

You are one disrespectful idiot. You are another that must have some pull with the devil.

Re: salvation by works
 

You will never become like Jesus. Not even close. Not even in the same universe. YOU ARE A IDIOT. A STUPID ONE AT THAT.

Re: salvation by works
 

I have not even read what he has posted...but I wager you that I can find plenty of it that is incorrect.

Re: salvation by works
 

I can prove very much of what you said is incorrect...that I started to laugh as I read some of it.

Re: salvation by works
 

I thought I would stop by and pay you idiots a visit.

Since the last time I was here and you disrespected me and then banned me

The Almighty Lord God of all the Heavens and Heaven and Earth...you know...the one you are always trying to impress.

He has promoted me to a higher authority and with very much more power of the Holy Ghost and prominence within His great and awesome Kingdom.

I love God more than all of you put together...and then some.

lol

Jesus talks to me everyday.

lol

The Spirit of the Lord comes upon me everyday.

lol

The Lord God loves me more than all of you put together.

Re: salvation by works
 

Here let me teach you idiots the truth about the Grace of God.

The Grace of God is a Spirit.

The Spirit of Grace.

1 of the Seven Spirits of God.

Re: salvation by works
 

The unlearned believe

The grace of God is the mercy of God.

IT IS NOT.

Here is an example I will give you so as to maybe give you some

understanding to some degree the Grace of God.

The eagle soars and glides with the greatest of ease,

with the grace a creature sculptured just for that

purpose.

When you see a sand crane fly, you do not see the grace, God gave to

the eagle.

The sand crane has none.

Re: salvation by works
 

Hovie

You are a idiot.

I will debate you if you or anyone on here or anyone you want to go get if you have the courage and the spirit.

And prove you are a idiot.

I will check back if the Lord be willing to see if you have the courage and the spirit.

To match Spirits with me.

The Seven Spirits of God live in me.

*NOTE

I know you clowns believe you have the Holy Ghost.

So if this is true...you all should easily defeat me in a debate about the truth.

So there is no reason you should decline to be put to the test.

That is of course you are afraid you really do not have the Holy ghost.

Till next time...clowns.

lol

lol


lol

The Lord is God.

Re: salvation by works
 

Good point! lol

Re: salvation by works
 

Well... first... calling people "idiots" isn't necessarily Christlike.

Second, you obviously don't understand the fulness of what happens to a person when they a filled with the Holy Ghost. A process of regeneration begins. Theologically this means that their dead human spirit is brought to life through the now present spiritual union with the Spirit of God. They are "one with God" or "one spirit" with the Lord at that moment. Yes, you and God are one organism if you have the Holy Ghost. It is through this union that born again believers partake in the divine nature and walk in the Spirit.

Third, you don't distinguish the difference between your regenerated spirit and your unregenerate mind that must be renewed through the Word of God. You are a treasure in an earthen vessel. You must renew your mind to keep your soul (mind) and spirit (living essence) in harmony. Else guilt, shame, depression, etc. can result. Opposing yourself in this manner will lead to a failure to produce fruit... which could very well lead to God "pruning" one from the vine.

Fourthly, you aren't fully aware of the doctrine of glorification. When born again believers are raised from the dead or transformed at the coming of Christ they experience the final phase of redemption... Glorification. Our mortality takes on immortality. Our corruption takes on incorruption. And then we shall be like HIM (Jesus). Our bodies and our minds will be fully regenerated and we will be void of all sinful tendencies of the flesh. We will be just like Jesus. However, don't think that we will be little "gods" in the pagan sense. No. We are branches of the vine. Christ's own divine Spirit and power will illuminate us and empower us because through His Spirit we are one spirit with the Lord. We are branches fully matured and connected to the vine, Jesus Christ. In that day... God will BE ALL IN ALL.

Our future is truly glorious and sinless. So yes, one day born again believers who overcome their flesh and this world through the grace of God WILL be like Jesus.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

For more on this theological concept research the biblical roots of theosis. God became a man, so that man could become God. Not in the sense of becoming "a god"... but in the sense of becoming HIM through spiritual union. Becoming one with the Father as Christ is one with the Father. Jesus is the prototype of all that we are to one day become.

Re: salvation by works
 

I like him... Can we keep him????

Re: salvation by works
 

No one has saught to offend you TWM. We're only sharing our thoughts. Why do you do that which is not pleasing to the Lord and loving in His sight?

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire

I forgive you. However, there is one greater than I whom you should make peace with on this matter.