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deacon blues 05-08-2012 12:34 PM

Your Greatest Need
 
The other day at our daughter’s soccer game, one of her teammates, a rather timid player whose game lacks confidence, scored her first goal of the season. The cheers from the fans went up as always when any of the girls does something special. But the enthusiasm behind our applause and praise seemed extra hearty knowing the boost of assurance this would give her. The smile on her face, the gleam in her eye, her body language, all underscored the sense of joy and satisfaction that one experiences when we’re being approved and affirmed by others.

We want to be accepted. We want to gain the approval of others. We want people to see us as having value and worth. We hunger for praise, pats on the back, compliments and commendations. Deep down inside we have a need to be accepted. Accepted for who we are. Accepted as we are. Accepted in spite of what we are or what we’ve done. Accepted in spite of what aren’t and what we haven’t done.

There is an inborn sense in all of us that we lack significance. We are but small creatures in this vast universe. Most of us are unknown to the world. Most of us will never be known by a vast majority of humanity. Very very few if us will go down in the history books. Some people are driven to rise above the masses to do things that are noteworthy, that will be recognized by others for generations to come. Some people are motivated to forge significance for themselves and to leave a lasting legacy that won’t be soon forgotten. But underneath it all there’s still the awareness that most of what we do doesn’t change the fact that there is something wrong with us, something dysfunctional, something lacking regardless of what we do.

We watch with sadness as people who have achieved the heights of fame and fortune self destruct using drugs, or alcohol, commit suicide or ruin their reputations beyond repair. With more money than any of us will ever see, with name recognition that none of us will ever know, with accomplishments that most of us won’t even come close to, we scratch our heads in bewilderment as to how these folks could feel so worthless that they would do such things to themselves. It’s because the one thing we are all longing for, searching for, hoping for cannot be found in wealth, popularity or human achievement...

In Timothy Keller’s book, “King’s Cross”, Keller quotes theologian William Vanstone’s book, “The Phenomenology of Love” in which he declares, “…we need to be loved like we need air and water. We can’t live without love. That means there’s a certain mercenary quality to our relationships. We look for people whose love will really affirm us. We invest our love only where we know we will get a good return. Of course when we do that, our love is conditional and non-vulnerable, because we’re not loving the person simply for himself or herself; we’re loving the person partly for the love we’re getting.”

Keller goes on to say, “Nobody can give anyone else the kind or amount of love they’re starved for. In the end we’re all alike, groping for true love and incapable of fully giving it.” I think this is fundamentally why there’s so much pain and loneliness in the world. Sure there are those who find measures of love and acceptance in marriage and relationships, but underlying it all we know that there are limits to how much humans can love one another. It’s never completely pure, untainted, unconditional love. We love with conditions, even if those conditions are few and aren’t asking much.

Keller then says what I believe to be the solution to our dilemma. “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all. Someone who loves us radically, unconditionally, vulnerably. Someone who loves us just for our sake. If we received that kind of love, that would so assure us of our value, it would so fill us up, that maybe we could start to love like that too. Who can give love with no need? Jesus.”

It feels great to score a goal. But within minutes instead of scoring the goal, you’re making a mistake on the field that allows the other team to score. Instead of cheers and praise, you’re feeling the shame of your failure. It’s wonderful to have one say to you, “I love you” and that they embrace you and commit themselves to you and communicate their approval of you in words and deeds. But in time people hurt one another, disappoint one another, fail to live up to the expectations of one another. Some people breakup, divorce, move out and move on in search of, and never discovering, perfect love. Others choose to live with the emptiness and loneliness and embrace the attitude of one songwriter ..who simply declared “Love Stinks!”

This planet is covered with hopeless humanity searching for, hungry for and craving acceptance, approval, affirmation and unconditional love. So many never find it because they think it can be found in another human being. The love and acceptance we yearn for can only be found in Jesus. He doesn’t need us, but He loves and accepts us anyway. His love is perfect. And it’s unconditional. He’ll love you even if you won’t love Him back. And I agree with Keller. The only possibility for human beings to love as He loves is by loving Him and accepting Him and trusting Him. As we accept His grace in our lives, we are changed and transformed into something better and into something brand new. We become like Him. And as we grow up into Christ, we become His mechanism to bring His great love into the people and world around us.

KeptByTheWord 05-08-2012 01:12 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Wow!!! Amazing words, so very, very true and how much pain could be solved in each of our hearts, if we could really, TRULY understand in our day to day life the concept you have brought forth.

Accepting that Christ's love for us is the ONLY perfect thing we'll ever find in this world.

AreYouReady? 05-08-2012 01:55 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Thank you for posting these words of encouragement.

In these times, we cannot find true unconditional love from other humans, but we can through Christ....and that in itself is so amazing that I have a hard time grasping His concept and His love.

Bro. Robbins 05-08-2012 02:16 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues (Post 1160432)
The other day at our daughter’s soccer game, one of her teammates, a rather timid player whose game lacks confidence, scored her first goal of the season. The cheers from the fans went up as always when any of the girls does something special. But the enthusiasm behind our applause and praise seemed extra hearty knowing the boost of assurance this would give her. The smile on her face, the gleam in her eye, her body language, all underscored the sense of joy and satisfaction that one experiences when we’re being approved and affirmed by others.

We want to be accepted. We want to gain the approval of others. We want people to see us as having value and worth. We hunger for praise, pats on the back, compliments and commendations. Deep down inside we have a need to be accepted. Accepted for who we are. Accepted as we are. Accepted in spite of what we are or what we’ve done. Accepted in spite of what aren’t and what we haven’t done.

There is an inborn sense in all of us that we lack significance. We are but small creatures in this vast universe. Most of us are unknown to the world. Most of us will never be known by a vast majority of humanity. Very very few if us will go down in the history books. Some people are driven to rise above the masses to do things that are noteworthy, that will be recognized by others for generations to come. Some people are motivated to forge significance for themselves and to leave a lasting legacy that won’t be soon forgotten. But underneath it all there’s still the awareness that most of what we do doesn’t change the fact that there is something wrong with us, something dysfunctional, something lacking regardless of what we do.

We watch with sadness as people who have achieved the heights of fame and fortune self destruct using drugs, or alcohol, commit suicide or ruin their reputations beyond repair. With more money than any of us will ever see, with name recognition that none of us will ever know, with accomplishments that most of us won’t even come close to, we scratch our heads in bewilderment as to how these folks could feel so worthless that they would do such things to themselves. It’s because the one thing we are all longing for, searching for, hoping for cannot be found in wealth, popularity or human achievement...

In Timothy Keller’s book, “King’s Cross”, Keller quotes theologian William Vanstone’s book, “The Phenomenology of Love” in which he declares, “…we need to be loved like we need air and water. We can’t live without love. That means there’s a certain mercenary quality to our relationships. We look for people whose love will really affirm us. We invest our love only where we know we will get a good return. Of course when we do that, our love is conditional and non-vulnerable, because we’re not loving the person simply for himself or herself; we’re loving the person partly for the love we’re getting.”

Keller goes on to say, “Nobody can give anyone else the kind or amount of love they’re starved for. In the end we’re all alike, groping for true love and incapable of fully giving it.” I think this is fundamentally why there’s so much pain and loneliness in the world. Sure there are those who find measures of love and acceptance in marriage and relationships, but underlying it all we know that there are limits to how much humans can love one another. It’s never completely pure, untainted, unconditional love. We love with conditions, even if those conditions are few and aren’t asking much.

Keller then says what I believe to be the solution to our dilemma. “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all. Someone who loves us radically, unconditionally, vulnerably. Someone who loves us just for our sake. If we received that kind of love, that would so assure us of our value, it would so fill us up, that maybe we could start to love like that too. Who can give love with no need? Jesus.”

It feels great to score a goal. But within minutes instead of scoring the goal, you’re making a mistake on the field that allows the other team to score. Instead of cheers and praise, you’re feeling the shame of your failure. It’s wonderful to have one say to you, “I love you” and that they embrace you and commit themselves to you and communicate their approval of you in words and deeds. But in time people hurt one another, disappoint one another, fail to live up to the expectations of one another. Some people breakup, divorce, move out and move on in search of, and never discovering, perfect love. Others choose to live with the emptiness and loneliness and embrace the attitude of one songwriter ..who simply declared “Love Stinks!”

This planet is covered with hopeless humanity searching for, hungry for and craving acceptance, approval, affirmation and unconditional love. So many never find it because they think it can be found in another human being. The love and acceptance we yearn for can only be found in Jesus. He doesn’t need us, but He loves and accepts us anyway. His love is perfect. And it’s unconditional. He’ll love you even if you won’t love Him back. And I agree with Keller. The only possibility for human beings to love as He loves is by loving Him and accepting Him and trusting Him. As we accept His grace in our lives, we are changed and transformed into something better and into something brand new. We become like Him. And as we grow up into Christ, we become His mechanism to bring His great love into the people and world around us.

I'm sorry... I'm a simple guy... but so much of what you are talking about here is lauding someone's flesh, and making their flesh feel good... even the little girl playing soccer (and don't get me started bout litle girls being allowed to play sports). Just seems like your endorsing heaping huge praise on people's flesh to make the feel better... I don't see you making a differentiation between their soul and their flesh. Just seems a little out of balance to me... maybe I read it wrong... would be a first time.

Dordrecht 05-08-2012 02:18 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
I saw some pentecostal girls playing soccer while wearing long skirts...it looked funny.

RandyWayne 05-08-2012 02:22 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dordrecht (Post 1160451)
I saw some pentecostal girls playing soccer while wearing long skirts...it looked funny.

Not as funny as a bunch of UPC girls downhill skiing in their jean skirts.

Bro. Robbins 05-08-2012 02:36 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
allowing girls to play sports just promotes them to embrace masculine activities, mannerisms and behavior. We should be teaching our young ladies to be feminine and act like women.... not trying to make them think they are somehow equal with boys.

Bro. Robbins 05-08-2012 02:42 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues (Post 1160432)
We want to be accepted. We want to gain the approval of others. We want people to see us as having value and worth. We hunger for praise, pats on the back, compliments and commendations. Deep down inside we have a need to be accepted. Accepted for who we are. Accepted as we are. Accepted in spite of what we are or what we’ve done. Accepted in spite of what aren’t and what we haven’t done.

To get this back on track... this is the paragraph that really troubles me. You make the assumption that just because this WANT is present, that it should be fed and appeased.

What ever happened to realizing that we are depraved and nothing good resides within us in of ourselves? What ever happened to realizing we are filth, unworthy, not able to ever have anything good within us without Jesus? This just sounds so self centered and like humanism.

RandyWayne 05-08-2012 02:46 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins (Post 1160454)
allowing girls to play sports just promotes them to embrace masculine activities, mannerisms and behavior. We should be teaching our young ladies to be feminine and act like women.... not trying to make them think they are somehow equal with boys.

"Our" young ladies? At the risk of "putting words in your mouth" I am going to assume that you are one of those guys talking about the ladies in your church as "Our women". I believe it is safe to assume that many women don't want to be considered "yours".

As far as acting like a lady goes, there is nothing quite as sexy as a lady at the firing range. :) Can't get much more feminine then that!

Bro. Robbins 05-08-2012 02:49 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 1160456)
"Our" young ladies? At the risk of "putting words in your mouth" I am going to assume that you are one of those guys talking about the ladies in your church as "Our women". I believe it is safe to assume that many women don't want to be considered "yours".

As far as acting like a lady goes, there is nothing quite as sexy as a lady at the firing range. :) Can't get much more feminine then that!

learning to shoot a gun is not a sport... and that's something everyone should learn to do. And when I say "our young ladies need to learn", I would also say "our young men need to learn" some things as well. The children are entrusted to us as adults, and we have a responsibility to teach them and bring them up to be what God expects of them. Again, your getting this thread off topic... and that's sort of disrespectful to the original poster and the time they took to place the original post.

Jay 05-08-2012 03:11 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
I have no issue with girls who enjoy kicking a ball, swinging a bat, and enjoying such things. However, I do not approve of young people playing in organized sporting events. I know that this flies in the face of modern trends.

RandyWayne 05-08-2012 03:15 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay (Post 1160459)
I have no issue with girls who enjoy kicking a ball, swinging a bat, and enjoying such things. However, I do not approve of young people playing in organized sporting events. I know that this flies in the face of modern trends.

Can I assume that you find no problem with women spending quality time at the firing range then? I would expect my wife to stand by myself as we fought off the inevitable zombie hoards, together.

Timmy 05-08-2012 04:17 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 1160460)
Can I assume that you find no problem with women spending quality time at the firing range then? I would expect my wife to stand by myself as we fought off the inevitable zombie hoards, together.

Be careful: don't shoot Zombie Bill Murray! :lol

Jay 05-08-2012 04:26 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Let me see...Mom went to the firing range with us, she shot a gun, she took the hunter safety course with us boys and Dad, she would walk through the field with Dad when he went preparing for deer season...Nope, I have no problem with women having the ability to hunt and shoot.

Dordrecht 05-08-2012 04:52 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins (Post 1160454)
allowing girls to play sports just promotes them to embrace masculine activities, mannerisms and behavior. We should be teaching our young ladies to be feminine and act like women.... not trying to make them think they are somehow equal with boys.

Are you serious ?????????

Cindy 05-08-2012 05:00 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins (Post 1160454)
allowing girls to play sports just promotes them to embrace masculine activities, mannerisms and behavior. We should be teaching our young ladies to be feminine and act like women.... not trying to make them think they are somehow equal with boys.

Are you kidding me? :blink

Cindy 05-08-2012 05:02 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
I have to find another thread so I don't post something and have to give myself an infraction.

Timmy 05-08-2012 05:04 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1160473)
I have to find another thread so I don't post something and have to give myself an infraction.

:heeheehee

AreYouReady? 05-08-2012 05:06 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 1160463)
Be careful: don't shoot Zombie Bill Murray! :lol

Can't do ol Bill any harm. Remember he threw himself off a cliff on groundhog day and still woke up the next morning?:heeheehee

Timmy 05-08-2012 05:07 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady? (Post 1160476)
Can't do ol Bill any harm. Remember he threw himself off a cliff on groundhog day and still woke up the next morning?:heeheehee

Good point! :lol

Cindy 05-08-2012 05:07 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady? (Post 1160476)
Can't do ol Bill any harm. Remember he threw himself off a cliff on groundhog day and still woke up the next morning?:heeheehee

:toofunny

Michael The Disciple 05-08-2012 05:15 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
From post 1.

Quote:

The love and acceptance we yearn for can only be found in Jesus. He doesn’t need us, but He loves and accepts us anyway. His love is perfect. And it’s unconditional. He’ll love you even if you won’t love Him back.
I dont find this to be true. Where did the idea Gods love is UNCONDITIONAL come from? I see definite conditions if we want to have favor with God.

Does this sound unconditional?

15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love. John 15:10

Jay 05-08-2012 05:25 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1160473)
I have to find another thread so I don't post something and have to give myself an infraction.



Good grief!!

Cindy 05-08-2012 05:37 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay (Post 1160483)
Good grief!!

:heeheehee

Timmy 05-08-2012 06:41 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1160480)
From post 1.



I dont find this to be true. Where did the idea Gods love is UNCONDITIONAL come from? I see definite conditions if we want to have favor with God.

Does this sound unconditional?

15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love. John 15:10

Exactly. E.g., if you don't hate your family (OK, fine! If you don't love God more than you love your family!), you are not "worthy" of Jesus. So Jesus said.

Michael The Disciple 05-08-2012 07:20 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 1160489)
Exactly. E.g., if you don't hate your family (OK, fine! If you don't love God more than you love your family!), you are not "worthy" of Jesus. So Jesus said.

Amen:highfive

bbyrd009 05-08-2012 07:23 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1160480)
From post 1.



I dont find this to be true. Where did the idea Gods love is UNCONDITIONAL come from? I see definite conditions if we want to have favor with God.

Does this sound unconditional?

15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love. John 15:10

Yup, we have plenty of types for those God has turned His back on;
there are those we are directed not to even pray for.

RandyWayne 05-08-2012 08:14 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins (Post 1160457)
learning to shoot a gun is not a sport... and that's something everyone should learn to do. And when I say "our young ladies need to learn", I would also say "our young men need to learn" some things as well. The children are entrusted to us as adults, and we have a responsibility to teach them and bring them up to be what God expects of them. Again, your getting this thread off topic... and that's sort of disrespectful to the original poster and the time they took to place the original post.

"I'M" getting this topic off thread?

deacon blues 05-08-2012 08:28 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1160480)
From post 1.



I dont find this to be true. Where did the idea Gods love is UNCONDITIONAL come from? I see definite conditions if we want to have favor with God.

Does this sound unconditional?

15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love. John 15:10

And what were Christ's commandments? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, love your neighbor as yourself and a new commandment: love one another.

deacon blues 05-08-2012 08:56 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins (Post 1160449)
I'm sorry... I'm a simple guy... but so much of what you are talking about here is lauding someone's flesh, and making their flesh feel good... even the little girl playing soccer (and don't get me started bout litle girls being allowed to play sports). Just seems like your endorsing heaping huge praise on people's flesh to make the feel better... I don't see you making a differentiation between their soul and their flesh. Just seems a little out of balance to me... maybe I read it wrong... would be a first time.

Well, since you're so simple, it shouldn't be difficult to understand that we desire love and acceptance. That's common to every human in every culture in every era of history. Jesus likened our relationship to God, our heavenly Father, to our relationship with our earthly father in Luke 11. He said if we know how to be good to our children, how much more will our heavenly Father give good gifts to those who ask of Him?

First, the article isn't about heaping praise on people. Second, if it was, I don't see the problem. I think compliments, praise, kind words, celebrating someone's achievements are all perfectly fine and actually a very effective way to encourage someone and allow them sense that they have value, they are loved and they are appreciated. But the article is about how deep down we just want to be loved and we can never find pure, unadulterated love anywhere in anyone outside of Jesus.

And Jesus loves all of us, including our flesh. And He redeemed us, including our flesh. And I believe He cares about our insecurities and shame, our loneliness and need to be accepted. He's a good Father who cares about His children. And that's what makes His grace so beautiful. He adopted us, and He didn't have to. He chose us, and we had nothing to do with it.

deacon blues 05-08-2012 08:59 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins (Post 1160455)
To get this back on track... this is the paragraph that really troubles me. You make the assumption that just because this WANT is present, that it should be fed and appeased.

What ever happened to realizing that we are depraved and nothing good resides within us in of ourselves? What ever happened to realizing we are filth, unworthy, not able to ever have anything good within us without Jesus? This just sounds so self centered and like humanism.

No, you miss the point. The need we have for acceptance, but we seek it in all the wrong ways. It's only by understanding how we are accepted in Christ that we find wholeness and are able to be loving to others as He loves.

AreYouReady? 05-08-2012 09:11 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues (Post 1160524)
It's only by understanding how we are accepted in Christ that we find wholeness and are able to be loving to others as He loves.

Now that is something to think about. If we cannot love others as they are, then we may not have the love of Christ in us?

MissBrattified 05-08-2012 09:13 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1160473)
I have to find another thread so I don't post something and have to give myself an infraction.

Feeling the SAME way. :foottap

deacon blues 05-08-2012 09:14 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
The message of the cross (Gods grace) is offensive and is resisted for it's simplicity and the fact that it is a finished work. We have a hard time believing it is that simple. It's almost too good to be true.

AreYouReady? 05-08-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Christ made it simple for us. Some just want to complicate things.

Michael The Disciple 05-09-2012 06:22 AM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues (Post 1160509)
And what were Christ's commandments? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, love your neighbor as yourself and a new commandment: love one another.

Those are conditions are they not? What if we DONT love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength? What if we DONT love our neighbor as ourself?

Will UNCONDITIONAL LOVE still save us?

Michael The Disciple 05-09-2012 06:29 AM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
The unconditional love doctrine is pure heresy.

Is this unconditional?

Luke 14:25-27

14:25 Now great multitudes were going with him. He turned and said to them, 14:26 “If anyone comes to me, and doesn’t disregard his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can’t be my disciple. 14:27 Whoever doesn’t bear his own cross, and come after me, can’t be my disciple.

Sounds like its conditioned on taking up the cross and following him.

Sounds like its conditioned on disregarding all others.

Believe me this is just the beginning.

Michael The Disciple 05-09-2012 06:35 AM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues (Post 1160528)
The message of the cross (Gods grace) is offensive and is resisted for it's simplicity and the fact that it is a finished work. We have a hard time believing it is that simple. It's almost too good to be true.

But thats only HALF the message of the cross. Jesus bore his cross. He finished his work. Now we must take up ours and die to ourselves.

I am not resisting Jesus finished work as our sacrifice. I resist the offer of salvation without taking up our cross. I resist the message of unconditional love because it is not Biblical.

Dordrecht 05-09-2012 06:49 AM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
You guys make things complicated.

Bro. Robbins 05-09-2012 06:55 AM

Re: Your Greatest Need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues (Post 1160522)
Well, since you're so simple, it shouldn't be difficult to understand that we desire love and acceptance. That's common to every human in every culture in every era of history. Jesus likened our relationship to God, our heavenly Father, to our relationship with our earthly father in Luke 11. He said if we know how to be good to our children, how much more will our heavenly Father give good gifts to those who ask of Him?

First, the article isn't about heaping praise on people. Second, if it was, I don't see the problem. I think compliments, praise, kind words, celebrating someone's achievements are all perfectly fine and actually a very effective way to encourage someone and allow them sense that they have value, they are loved and they are appreciated. But the article is about how deep down we just want to be loved and we can never find pure, unadulterated love anywhere in anyone outside of Jesus.

And Jesus loves all of us, including our flesh. And He redeemed us, including our flesh. And I believe He cares about our insecurities and shame, our loneliness and need to be accepted. He's a good Father who cares about His children. And that's what makes His grace so beautiful. He adopted us, and He didn't have to. He chose us, and we had nothing to do with it.

Our greatest desire, or want may be acceptance and/or love... but you said it was our greatest NEED. Words are important... and I think you were very loose there with that one. Our greatest NEED is RIGHTEOUSNESS. All the love in the world wont' do you any good if you aren't RIGHTEOUS before God having been washed in the blood of Jesus.

There will be people that Jesus, the church, and others loved.... heaped praise upon... encouraged... that will still be in Hell... there are children there in hell today of parents that gave them tons of chances, bailed them from jail, forgave them over and over, prayed for them, interceded for them, told them they could make it and encouraged them... that the Holy Ghost pulled on the heartstrings of... that God even wrapped Himself in flesh to give Himself for... that God Himself desired they would never perish and he offered them love.... but they still went to Hell.

No, this is some dangerous stuff your touting here. If you called it our greatest DESIRE... I'd have no issue with you... none at all. But you said it's our GREATEST NEED... and friend... I don't need love as much as I need RIGHTEOUSNESS. I need to be saved more than I need someone giving me kuddos and encouragement. My greatest need has more to do with eternity than my self esteem and self concept.


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