Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad?
 

So anyone care to explain to me what is wrong with endorsing gay marriage/civil unions?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

It's like approving of homosexuality.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Personally, I won't endorse it. Genesis 2:20-24 pretty much clears up that marriage was intended to be between a man and a woman. However, I'm sure many of us know where a conversation would go if we bring that very scripture up to someone who either supports SSM or is currently married to a SS partner. The whole "you're being judgemental!" statement would very likely be thrown in.

There's no judgemental anything being thrown in. It's Bible. It's the desgin God chose in order for His plan to be carried out. For me to endorse SSM would immediately contradict the foundation for a Christian marriage.

Now...

Here we are in modern society. SSM is heavily debated, discussed, and many times thrown in our face by the media and Hollywood. Such a heavy influence in those two alone. If someone were to consider SSM, a few questions would pop into my mind:

1) Obviously, "Why?"
2) What was the family structure like during childhood? Overbearing or passive father? Overbearing or passive mother? Gay siblings/relatives?
3) What was the spiritual foundation, if any, like? Consistent fellowship with other believers? Off and on fellowship? No fellowship at all? Influence is key.
4) What type of entertainment would I find? Frequent sexual content? Hate/disrespect toward people of faith, etc? Again, influence is key.
5) Did they just have a sudden change of heart, even though all of the above seemed like they were conducive to a Christian home?

Getting down to the heart of the matter, it would help to know where someone came from in terms of their raising to figure out why they'd consider SSM. To immediately respond with Leviticus and Deuteronomy accounts, etc won't help the other person, I can assure you. Yet, too many people do and wonder why no progress can be made in helping that person come out of their mindset and belief.

The best thing, IMO, for politicians to do is not endorse or deny marriage, period, and leave it to the churches and people to decide from there. I'm pretty sure folks on both sides of the aisle would disagree with what I just said. But, as I've said before, we let government decide what they'll allow/give, they'll also be the ones who can deny/take away. Kinda like what Thomas Jefferson said: "A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...."

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

jf - what do you think the Lord would say about "marriage" between a man and a woman?

What do you think about multiple partner marriages?

Because that is where we are headed next.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

There is nothing wrong with endorsing it.......... in the political arena.

The government and what they do is out of our control, no matter how we vote. They will always stand at odds with the church. I wouldn't expect any different. Their goals in this world are not the same as ours so it really is irrelevant to attempt to protest what they do.

"as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord"

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

You might examine the Q the other way;
"Why is preventing _____ (hospital visits,
inheriting, etc, among gays) bad?

There are supposedly laws for this, and I'm
not quite sure why a power of attorney
wouldn't work? (but I'm the type of guy
who would not need one to go see my
SO in the hospital; this seems contrived-
-but I'm totally ignorant here)

for the record, I'm against gay marriage,
but prolly for civil union.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

I could accept gay marriage if I knew for sure that their agenda would stop there. The truth is that they will continue their pursuit until not only is the gay lifestyle accepted as normal, but wholly endorsed by society and government.

I think that the gay marriage agenda is a direct confrontation to those of religious persuasion. Many see the non-acceptance of gay marriage as the government siding with religion, and as an assault on their rights as a US citizen.

Once a "Christian' nation, our nation is slowly descending into a "non-Christian" nation. It is now open-season on Christians in the US.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Yep pretty much. Just because a politician is non Christian (Obama of course, says he is Christian) does not mean it is OK. Lying and hating is perhaps expected among unbelievers, but that does not make it OK.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Is allowing homosexual doctors approving of homosexuality? What about homosexual lawyers? (Both of these have to be liscensed by the state also). What about giving driver's liscenses to homosexuals? Isn't that approving of homosexuality? What about allowing them to eat in our restaurants? Is that approving of homosexuality.

I think we have a bad mentality here. Approving and endorsing of a homosexuals rights to do something is not approving of homosexuality. So I want to ask how does approving of homosexual marriage go beyond simple approval of homosexual marriage and into actual approval of homosexuality?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Please explain how endorsing the right for homosexuals to marry or have civil unions becomes endorsing homosexuality?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Jesus says to render unto Ceaser the things that are ceasers. Legal marriage is Ceasers. Let Ceaser do with it what he will.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Homosexuality goes against the word of God. I agree.

A government granting homosexuals the right to legally marry or have civil unions is not against the bible for no prohibition of this can be found in its pages.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

I'd say that this is naive of the meaning of marriage,
as the Bible is pretty clear at "a man and a woman."
I mean, there is no prohibition against pigs flying, either.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Ya, no--"marriage" is a Scriptural institution,
one that Caesar is not qualified to administer-
-hence "civil union."

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

If it was a scriptural institution then only churches would administer marriages. That's not the case. Marriage in this country is a legal institution.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

I have no problem with biblical marriage being defined as being between a man and a woman if that's what a church believes. The question isn't about what biblical marriage is. The question is about what legal marriage.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Endorsing or supporting same-sex marriage goes against the very concept of marriage - companionship and procreation.

Homosexuals can have their companionship in a civil union, but it's ridiculous to pretend their relationship can produce offspring. It's simply a pretense at appearing to be normal and why they want to push the marriage issue. And they shouldn't be allowed to force their view and lifestyle on defined marriage - between one man and one woman.

They get all the same rights under a civil union. Therefore, IMO, it should stop there.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Beats me why there is even an argument about this issue on a Christian Forum.

Goes to show you how some view Christianity!
:foottap

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

That was not what my post meant, JF. You asked a question, that was my answer. Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad? I am assuming that you meant for politicians. If so, it's like they are approving of homosexuality, which to Christians and even some non christians wrong or a sin.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

jf - it really troubles me that you are struggling with this concept.
Also, I notice that you did not address my multiple partner marriage question.
I frankly, rejoice whenever those who rule follow the Bible in their rulings.
I am saddened whenever Biblical precepts are violated.
If you really want to see what this will lead to, just go this this link.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/vid...h-school-stude

The people will not be satisfied until we ENDORSE their lifestyle.
Frankly, many of them believe that we should be locked up or punished if we do not.
This is not about rendering to Caesar.
This is a moral issue that will result in taking down this country.

Come quickly Lord Jesus.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

There are no laws banning infertile people from marrying. Therefore while marriage typically involves procreation the argument can't be made that just because 2 people can't procreate that they shouldn't be married.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

BTW I actually prefer the civil union implementation. I think it's the safest course since defining homosexuals as legally married may have unforeseen legal consequences.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

The concept that endorsing homosexuality is different than endorsing allowing them to legally marry or have civil unions?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

And what my post meant was that your answer that it's like approving of homosexuality didn't make sense to me. I'm willing to hear an explaination on how its more like approving of homosexuality than any of the other things I mentioned.

Supporting the right for homosexuals to marry or have civil unions is simply not the same thing as supporting homosexuality. I'm still willing to hear arguments on how it is. I hear often that it is and it seems everyone has bought it hook line and sinker without giving it any thought because not one person is addressing that question.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions good?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions good?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

"Typically involving procreation" is the bases of the same-sex marriage argument. The Bible never speaks of anything save the relation between a man and a woman. (I Cor 7:1-5; Ephesians 5:22-33; I & II Peter)

It's totally obtuse, IMO, to reach beyond the foundation that the Bible clearly sets as the precedent to accommodate a weak and depraved society.

And if we want to be really accurate about the subject of homosexuality, we can look at Romans 1.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

:thumbsup

That's a great question. Will you answer my question if I answer yours?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

The biblical defintion of marriage is between one man and one woman. So what?

It's the legal institution of marriage I'm interested in discussing. Until Christianscan admit and understand the difference I can see why they have issues bringing up worthy points for this discussion.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Let's see...Who has bought what hook, line and sinker? Thousands of years of almost unanimous belief that marriage is one man and one woman and then sodomites come along and say its not fair that they can't be marries so we just automatically cave in and say they're right? Or could it be that your messiah president has crossed the line and now you're stuck having to defend him/it?

This one is going to cost him politically. It might cause the media to tingle, it might cause Hollywood to right fatter checks, but there are 32 states that have written some form of defense of marriage act or constitutional amendment or a ban on gay marriage. 32 states against and only about 6 for and the other states with nothing either way. The presidential election is not a strictly popular vote. Its a state by state election. It was a stupid political move and its going to cost hime some states.

So again what makes gay marriage good? What makes polygamy good? What about a man who says he and his dog have consentual relations and love each other? Some woman and her horse? Perversion takes on many forms frog...who are we to judge who should or shouldn't get "married"?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Personally, I have two main thoughts on this issue, and they are surprisingly liberal:

1. I wish churches had jurisdiction over marriage ceremonies. Religious ceremonies should be held for those who want them, and everyone else can form secular (civil) unions. Giving this power back to the church and having the state only take care of paperwork and names and dates is the way it should be, IMO.
2. I don't really care WHO wants to form a civil union--whether its for the sake of sharing a household, sharing incomes, sharing dependents or sharing a bed--I really don't care. That's a legal issue that has nothing at all to do with the sanctity of God-ordained marriage between a man and a woman. IMO, if roommates want to file a civil union for the 4-8 years they attend college so they can share household expenses, etc., they should be able to do so. It's a practical matter.

When I was about 13, we lived next door to a monogamous gay couple. One of them worked at the hospital as a nurse, the other one was a businessman. They had two very fat, spoiled, sweet basset hounds. I don't remember my parents ever being rude to them or complaining about them living next door. I certainly was never bothered by them, and I find it interesting that my parents didn't seem particularly bothered by them either.

My point is: I don't see the point of Christians digging in their heels and trying to prevent people from sharing bank accounts and filing joint income tax returns.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

:highfive :thumbsup

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

It's not a bad mentality. We don't necessarily have to know if a doctor, lawyer, or Indian Chief is a homosexual. But we know if two men are marrying each other they are.

Giving two men the right to marry each other is giving legitimacy to homosexuality.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

BTW :thumbsup

One comment though: What you have described in the bolded is marriage ;)

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Yall keep on repeating yourselves. It's not enough to loudly shout repitevely that gay marriage legitmizes homosexuality. How does it go from legitimizing homosexual marriage to legitimizing homosexuality? There's a step missing there.

I think that not having laws banning homosexuality gives legitimacy to homosexuality. Giving homosexuals the right to marry or have civil unions only gives legiimacy to such marriages and not the lifestyle itself.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

I don't agree. A wedding is a celebration of a marriage, and a marriage is a covenant. A marriage is making a commitment and taking vows before God and man(e.g., a wedding)--and then keeping those promises. Business is part of the package like having children is often part of the package, but that isn't all it's about.

That's like saying that couples who live together are already married. No, marriage is about declared commitment and follow-through.

My point with making the business part vague is more to say that if two friends who have no romantic interest at all wanted to live in the same household and share income and file joint returns, why couldn't they? A civil union is a business arrangement. I don't really care who enters into a business arrangement together or why, as long as it isn't for criminal purposes.

From a purely political perspective, conservatively speaking, ANY adults who want to do *business*, save on their taxes, share a bank account and throw a party to celebrate the arrangement should have the freedom to do so. Making homosexual unions illegal does NOTHING to discourage homosexuality. So why are we concerned with it? Are we trying to answer a sin problem with legislation?

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

FTR, though, Obama isn't endorsing gay marriage because he's for minimal government and business arrangements. He's showing support for homosexuality in general and trying to get the gay vote. It's a ploy and it's for all the wrong reasons.

I don't care about civil unions because I don't think we should care about other people's legally binding contracts and I think religious ceremonies should be the jurisdiction of the church--not the government. It's not about endorsing someone's lifestyle; it's about believing the government should keep their noses out of personal lifestyle choices, unless there's something criminal going on.

Re: Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad
 

Gay marriage is not separate from the gay lifestyle. No gay lifestyle no need for gay marriage.