Apostolic 101
 

Only by repentance then baptism in Jesus name is ones sins covered by the blood of Jesus. & the curse of sin is lifted. Do people on this forum still believe that?

Re: Apostolic 101
 

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Acts 2:37-40 KJV

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I can't speak for anyone here other than myself.

I believe that a person is justified/saved/born again the moment he/she turns to Jesus by faith. I believe all that person's sins are forgiven/remitted at that moment, that the person is a new creature in Christ, that Jesus lives within them as the Holy Spirit, that they are placed/baptized/plunged into the Body of Christ, and that they are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of the redemption of the purchased possession.

I believe
baptism should follow salvation,
it should be by immersion if practically possible
it should be done in the name of Jesus Christ

I believe that there is an experience available for all children of God known by various terms such as
HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)
being empowered by the Holy Spirit
being filled with the Spirit
being baptized in the Spirit
the Holy Spirit coming upon
the Holy Spirit falling upon

I am stating this as what I believe realizing that among Christians there are differences of opinion and that we will not see these things exactly the same. This is not posted for debate or for a put down. I'm just expressing my beliefs and not throwing down the gauntlet for some kind of debate.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I believe strongly in Jesus name baptism, because it's what we see in the Word and we will never baptize any other way. But I DON'T believe that everyone else who doesn't baptize just like us is going to be lost. Just because I have a truth that they haven't seen doesn't mean I should arrogantly condemn them to hell. There are truths that I haven't seen yet too, I'm sure. We are all growing.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I am going to borrow what Cindy put as AFF's definition of Apostolic.

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.


As speaking only for myself, I believe every bit of what is posted above.

I am thinking that maybe what a lot of dissension here is based on the definition of what holiness is? Some view it as a purely physical manifestation of the inwards called standards. Others view it as both inward holiness and outward manifestation of holiness. Still others do not believe outward laws of how to dress has anything to do with a holiness lifestyle.

That one would be me. Although I do not believe standards has anything to do with holiness, because I have been in churches that people stretch standards to the limit and are still accepted within their ranks.

Holiness to me is how one lives their life. Do not backbite, defraud one another, cheat, steal, fornicate, commit adultery (in other words obey God's 10 Commandments) avoiding emulations, wrath, seditions and other things such as loving one another that Jesus taught to us and Paul wrote about.

But someone, at some time decided what one should look like outwardly and make it a denominational ordinance for an inaccurate measurement about somebody's consecrated holiness to God. Here, I believe lies wherein much, but not all of the infighting

We have people here at AFF who want to reach out to all types of people, not excluding homosexuals in the process. Where would Christ's church be without those who are accepting that call to minister to them?

And if this forum wasn't accessible to atheists and agnostics to discuss Bible, where else could they go? Frankly, in my area of the country, I see no Apostolic outreach to the lost. What has the physical church become?

Yet, I became aware that in other parts of the country, some churches are in full-bloom Pentecostal revivals. We have spiritual feasts and famines going on.

I am missing the people who came and left in my short period of time of being here. Titus2woman brought a lot of goods to the discussions. Even ol Atlanta Bishop had a few good things to say. Yet I see others who hang around here but never join in conversation. I think the few times Michelow came here while I was here...she made me think about some things.

And Timmy....I cannot imagine this forum without him. He knows his bible as good as any preacher here and feels comfortable enough here to stay here.

Point is...we all got our reasons why we are here...hoping, enjoying discussion having debates and getting angry...it's all a learning experience of life. None of us never know what will be said that just might enrich our lives either.:icecream

And like Sam, I am not trying to start any debate...just sharing my thoughts.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

yes !

Re: Apostolic 101
 

Yes indeed! I believe in repentance and conversion through faith in the shed blood of Jesus, the only atonement for sin. I believe the believer must submit to baptism in the name of the one who has called them and saved them.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

:thumbsup

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I will stand with sam some what, though i believe in baptism, I dont degrade or condem those who have been baptized according to matthew 28:19

Re: Apostolic 101
 

No. Because scripture teaches no such thing.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

Acts 2:38 says that repentance and baptism in Jesus name is FOR the remission of sins. How do you interpret that?

Re: Apostolic 101
 

in the name of has always ment in the authority of

this doesnt mean that some one has to call that over your baptism. that is just a oral envocation. while i do prefer it, if remission of sins was based on someone stating a line over you as your dunked under water. then the power to remit sin would be dependant on another mans vocal chord and not your faith.

So i like to interpret it, the way ananias told Paul, why do you tarry? Get up be baptized washing away your sin, ----- get this (calling on the name of the Lord)

at pauls baptism he was instructed to call upon the name of the Lord. So i believe and the greek supports it, it is a 1st person calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus and not some one stating it over you as you get lowered into water.

and lets say your right and im wrong, which Line do you use?

In the name of Jesus Christ
In the Name of the Lord Jesus

or what about the one that says they were baptized in the Name of the Lord, and didnt even use the name Jesus.

do we use the greek name Iesous
do we use the Hebrew name Yeshua
do we use the arabic Name Isa

I am all for baptism in Jesus name, i just dont preach that it must be something another man says over you to have your sins remitted.

To be honest i had recieved the Holy Ghost and for all you Op (with evidence of speaking in tounges) way before i was ever baptized in Jesus name.

according to the word I had recieved the promise of God, i was given a Spirit of adoption, I was placed in the Body of belivers, i was sealed unto the day of redemption.

but i was still considered in my sins cause i had not been baptized in Jesus name with some one speaking his name over me at the time. Was i forgiven?

so was i a carnal sinner with the Spirit of God or did God deposit His Spirit in me before i was baptized?

Re: Apostolic 101
 

This is from an article titled “The Blood Covenant” by Howard A. Goss which appeared in the June 1954 Pentecostal Herald, pages 6 and 10


... repentance brings the blood of Jesus to a sinner’s heart to wipe out and cleanse him from all sin, he should then be baptized in water as a confession of his faith in the atonement...

When a sinner fully repents and confesses before God, the blood of Jesus atones for his sins , and cleanses his heart from all sin, and when he is clean then only is he a fit subject for water baptism. After that comes the promise “…you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost…” (Acts 2:38)

The blood and power of the Lord Jesus is the only source of regeneration or the New Birth. Water baptism alone has no power to remit sins, else we could baptize infants as do the Catholics. The Roman Catholic teaches regeneration by water baptism, but it is not according to the Word of God. A candidate for baptism in water should be baptized BECAUSE THE BLOOD has cleansed, remitted, forgiven his sins, and not in order to get them remitted, as WATER ALONE CANNOT WASH AWAY SINS. The old hymn goes:
What can wash away my sins,
Nothing but the Blood of Jesus.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

can you tell us more about Howard A Goss, who he was at the time. I remember the name but i forget alot of the person.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

its almost tomtoes/ tomahtoes with you sam

Re: Apostolic 101
 

Agreed on the "authority of", though it has even deeper significance. The best way to show that an event is taking place in the authority of Jesus, is to say so.

It's imperative that the newly converted candidate call on Jesus, but ideally it should be clearly proclaimed to all present that the baptismal ceremony is done in Jesus Name.

Yes, I believe you were forgiven. This is also the position of the UPC AOF.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

First UPC General Superintendent.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

SEE.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

in spanish that means YES!!! :highfive

Re: Apostolic 101
 

i actually equate baptism with romans 10:9-10 we see a perfect picture of this with the ehtiopian and phillip.

The ethiopian Believed. Verbally confessed Jesus is the Son of God then Got baptized.

but the question He asked Phillip what hinders me from being baptized. and Phillip answered you must believe with all your heart and soul.

Thus The ethiopian declared or as you say verbally proclaimed and then was baptized. that is really what calling upon is.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

Howard Goss was one of the "pioneers" or "elders" of the 20th century Pentecostal Movement. He was a minister of the Apostolic Faith ordained in 1906 by Charles Parham. He was a respected leader among those who preached the message of the Holy Ghost Baptism. He was one of the organizers and leaders in the Assemblies of God and then went with the Jesus' Name ministers when the split happened. He was the Superintendent of the PCI (Pentecostal Church Inc) when they merged with the PAJC (Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ) in 1945. He was the first Superintendent of the UPC and served in that office from 1945 to 1951.

His biography "The Winds of God" used to be available from the Pentecostal Publishing House and was, at one time if I remember correctly, required reading for those wishing to be licensed as ministers with the UPC.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

pretty much now it is david bernard stuff ministers have to read..

Re: Apostolic 101
 

That has been debated over and over here.

Both sides cited Greek experts to back up their opinions and the Greek "experts" do not agree with each other.

The word translated "for" in Acts 2:38 in the KJV is the Greek word "eis" and both the Greek word "eis" and the English word "for" can mean "in order to obtain" and "because of" so neither side can "prove" their point by that verse.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I believe the "Winds of God" may have been "revised"...?

Re: Apostolic 101
 

That is a reflection of the "revisionist history" that has been foisted* upon the folks in the UPC.

*foist verb (used with object)
1. to force upon or impose fraudulently or unjustifiably (usually followed by on or upon ): to foist inferior merchandise on a customer.
2. to bring, put, or introduce surreptitiously or fraudulently (usually followed by in or into ): to foist political views into a news story.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I hear what you are saying and do agree. The repentant new believer must understand who Jesus is, and call on Him. This is the crucial and operative question. Nevertheless, a baptismal ceremony, like all meetings should be called and conducted in Jesus name as well.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I don't interpret as you do..."Only by repentance then baptism in Jesus name is ones sins covered by the blood of Jesus". There's nothing in the passage which suggests that the blood is applied to an individual at baptism. If you have scripture which teaches that, I'd be interested in seeing it. Acts 2:38 doesn't mention blood.

I interpret the verse as baptism because one's sins have been remitted by the blood of the Lamb, not baptism in order to have one's sins remitted by the blood of the Lamb.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

SAW.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

see post number 14 above for an explanation from the Pentecostal Herald by former UPC Superintendent Howard Goss

Re: Apostolic 101
 

from an email I sent out a few years ago:

The following is about a man named Howard Goss. He has been dead for over 40 years. I never met him but I have read some things about him. I don't read many books. I have hundreds of books I've only read a chapter or two from many of them. Some of them I haven't read at all. But, quite a few years ago, when my kids were still small, I read a book called "The Winds of God" which was a biography/autobiography of Howard Goss. Over the years I have given away a couple copies of that book and I have read it three or four more times. Howard Goss was one of the old pioneers in the Pentecostal movement and over the years held a position of leadership in several of the Pentecostal organizations and denominations. The first part of the following is a brief bio. of the man. The second part is an article I ran across a few days ago
which was written a few years ago by Jim Cymbala, pastor of the Brooklyn Tabernacle in NY.

Jim Ellis
----------------------------

Goss, Howard Archibald (1883-1964)

First general superintendent of the United Pentecostal Church (UPC). Converted in 1903 under the ministry of Charles F. Parham, Goss attended Parham’s short term Bible School in Houston, TX in 1905. While riding a train with other Pentecostals in 1906, he received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. In the same year Parham appointed him to be field supervisor of the Apostolic Faith movement in Texas. After moral charges were brought against Parham in 1907, Goss separated from Parham and evangelized in Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri, establishing several Pentecostal churches. Goss and E.N. Bell were chiefly responsible for organizing the Assemblies of God (AG) in 1914, and Goss was elected to serve on the first executive presbytery and as the person issuing credentials to ministers in the South and West. E.N. Bell rebaptized Goss in the name of Jesus Christ in 1915. After the division of the Oneness ministers from the AG in 1916, Goss served on the credentials committee of the General Assembly of the Apostolic Assemblies. In 1919 he moved to Canada and established a church in Toronto, serving as its pastor until 1937. In the U.S. Goss was a member of the organizing board of presbyters for the Pentecostal Ministerial Alliance and served as the first chairman of this organization from 1925 to 1932. In 1939 he became the general superintendent of the Pentecostal Church Incorporated. At the merger that formed the UPC in 1945, Goss became the first general superintendent of the new organization and served until 1951. With his wife, Ethel, Goss wrote The Winds of God (1958), a history of the early years of the Pentecostal revival.

Page 343 of Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements, Jan. 1993 edition
-----------------------------------

The Real Thing

I was about seven years old when an unusual man of God spoke at the midweek service of the small church my parents were attending. His name was Howard Goss, and I will never forget the impression he left on my young heart. He was a huge man with a bald head and hands the size of baseball gloves. I never paid much attention to Bible preachers back then, but this man captured my interest. This large, gentle minister radiated something I had never felt before.

Howard Goss didn't rant and rave to make his point. Nor did he use any emotional gimmicks as he delivered the Word of God. He simply explained the truths of Scripture in an easy conversational tone. But he also conveyed an unusual sense of the blessing of God, a fact I grew to appreciate much later in life.

I had been in the ministry for about six years when I visited the city of Manila in the Philippines to speak at a large church celebrating its anniversary. As I browsed in the pastor's study before the service, I noticed a book written by Howard Goss many years earlier. He had died since I had last seen him, but I still vividly remembered the impression he made on me.

The pastor noticed the book I was leafing through and abruptly exclaimed, "You know, his son goes to church here."

"What, here in Manila?" I asked.

"Yeah, he lived away from God for many years, went through a divorce, and ended up in the Philippines. He's married to a Filipino woman, and their two boys go to church with him all the time."

There was plenty of time before the service began, so I asked if I could meet him. Within minutes a tall, hulking, middle-aged man walked in--the exact double of his late father, complete with the large, balding head and huge hands. I was stunned by the uncanny resemblance. As we sat and talked, I explained my interest in knowing more about his dad. He told me about his father's conversion, long years of preaching ministry, and beautiful marriage. Then he opened up to me even more:

"Even though I drifted away from God, I never could get away from my parents' prayers," he told me. "The farther I strayed, the more they interceded for me. Dad was always seeking God. I would so often see him on his knees in his study. His heart was so sincere before the Lord that I couldn't take being around him when I was living so terribly. One night he and Mom prayed a long time for me and waited up until I got home from my carousing.

"'Son, you're coming back to the Lord!' they said. 'God assured us in prayer tonight that it's just a matter of time. Hallelujah!' And they were right, as usual. I ran for a long time, but the Lord just got me into a corner and that was it. I surrendered my life back to him years ago, and my two boys are now fine young men of God. I just wish my dad had seen with his own eyes the answer to his prayers. "You know, Pastor, my dad really walked with God. He was so unusual compared to most of the ministers I saw while growing up. He was quite famous in his circle of churches, and everybody wanted him to speak, especially at those huge summer-camp meetings. He was a good writer and became an elder statesman to a multitude of younger preachers and congregations. But all the acclaim and popularity, all the invitations and compliments, never affected him except to make him more humble before God.

"I'll never forget one big camp meeting up in Canada when I was a kid. Every famous preacher was invited, and the crowds were tremendous. Our family arrived a day early, and the leaders were making out the schedule for the speakers. Meetings were held all day long-morning, afternoon, and night-and the visiting preachers all wanted to speak during the night rallies when the crowds were largest. The preachers actually jockeyed around, hoping to get the biggest meetings for their preaching assignments.

"Suddenly one of the leaders asked where my father was. He was in the prime of his ministry and was highly respected by everyone.

They wanted to consult with him, but no one seemed to know where he was. They finally heard that he was last seen in the kitchen and dining hall area, so I went with them to find him.

"They could scarcely believe their eyes when they got to the kitchen. There was my dad on his hands and knees scrubbing the floor with some of the other workers!

"'Brother Goss,' they said, 'what are you doing here? We're making out the preaching schedule and wanted to know your preference.'

"'Oh, brothers,' my dad replied, 'you've got so many good preachers here that you don't need to worry about me. But I found out that they're short of help here in the kitchen so I thought I'd lend a hand."'

Tears welled up in our eyes as the son reminisced about his father, whose godly heart had left such a deep impression on so many.

"My dad was sure different, Pastor;" he said. "He was the real thing. His heart was so humble before the Lord that he had a special power in prayer and in preaching. The Lord was really with my dad."

Cymbala, Jim. The Life God Blesses. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 2001, p. 82-86.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

If this gospel is hid, it is hid to them which are lost. Anyone (adult) not baptized in Jesus name has not been born again of the water. Which is essential. John 3:3,5.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

I agree with Goss.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21 KJV)

Re: Apostolic 101
 

Nobody I've met believes that baptism saves us, especially oneness Pentecostals.

Now, again, where does the bible indicate the blood of the Lamb is applied by water at baptism?

Re: Apostolic 101
 

The bible doesn't say anyone is born again of water, not John 3:3-5, not anywhere. The bible doesn't say anywhere that the blood of the Lamb is applied by water or words said over a person at baptism.

Re: Apostolic 101
 

Indeed, because we are buried with Christ, baptism does speak of the salvation Christ purchased for us - and identifies us with Him. It is truly a part of the initiation into the body of believers.

I question the experience of anyone not desiring to submit to baptism.

Yeah, in English.

It depends on what the meaning of Eis is.

Baptism is the Gospel? Paul said he was sent to preach, not to baptize.

Right. Those who have been washed in the blood are baptized because their conscience has been cleansed.

He who believes and is baptized shall be saved....

Believers are baptized.