Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

I've noticed since coming to the Apostolic movement, very few Apostolic churches have "membership". It's pretty much if you attend there, that's your church. Very different, since I'm so used to church's having formal membership.

So, does your church have formal membership, or not? Any reason why one way or the other?

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

If I went to any organized system regularly, I wouldn't join a formal membership.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Well, I have to say that I liked it.... especially from an administration viewpoint.

I like that people make a public profession saying, this is my local fellowship, this is my pastor, and this is my local church family. I plan to support it with my finances, attendance, and unity.... and I plan to be active in it's mission. We also made sure that only members in good standing (supporting the church financially and in attendance) could vote on major issues before the congregation... only folks with skin in the game could be part of the decision process as to where we were headed.

I myself, like the differentiation between someone who is a member of that local church, and just someone who attends there from time to time. Back in the day, when you joined a Church of God, we used to take vows before the congregation.... to enter in unity and convenant with one another.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

the upci that i used to attend had formal membership.

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I was always under the impression that nearly every church had a formal membership roster. Usually there was not a big deal made of it and I certainly can't think of an instance where anyone was made to recite any vows in front of the pastor or congregation (which I wouldn't do -even if I agreed with them). As long as you paid your tithes and attended every service, you were in.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

That's informal membership... just attending and paying tithes. And that's what I've seen at most apostolic churches. Never seen in an Apostolic church where the pastor says, "If you want to formally join this local church as a member, please come forward..." like you see in other denominal churches.

I just like the line of membership/non membership to be more black and white especially when it comes to voting on matters.... but I suppose it doesn't matter if your congregation never votes on matters or has business sessions regarding finances.

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Since spring 2006 my wife and I have been part of a Church called the Hamilton Dream Center. Their web site is http://www.hamiltondreamcenter.org/

We do not have a formal membership. If you go there and consider it your church then you are considered a member. Our pastor says that we are more of a ministry than a church. We have a pastor, a treasurer, and a secretary. We are a non-profit group so I assume there is a board or group of trustees who hold the title of the property in trust for legal purposes. We do not have business meetings but from time to time if there is a problem with finances it will be explained from the pulpit or in a meeting which has been called.

People are given a chance to sign a partnership agreement and expected to support the church in various ways as we can such as giving financially, praying for the pastor and church, attending services, serving in any way we are needed. (note: my wife and I have both signed this agreement soon after we started attending this church) We do not have deacons and elders but I am considered to be an "elder" and do some teaching/preaching. I am an ordained minister through that church but so are several other people that I don't even know who or where they are.

PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT

Covenant partnership is a relationship –-a bond—between two people or parties much like a business relationship. These parties, sharing a common goal or objective, join forces and resources in order to reach their common goal.
In the same way, the Partners of Hamilton Dream Center and its Ministry Team have a common goal: to reach the inner city of Hamilton and give hope to person(s) that are less fortunate. Our message is clear “Jesus is the answer”. And by standing together in faith and prayer, we can reach our part of the world with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Reaching this world is serious business, so the relationship between the Covenant Partners and the Ministry Team of Hamilton Dream Center is also serious and life changing. It is a bond established by God to fulfill His purposes –-not the Pastor or any of the Ministry Team—but His. It is a way of joining hands and joining forces to do more than we could ever do alone to bring the message of faith and hope to the Body of Christ.
Joining together, each of us brings resources and a supply of God’s anointing into this relationship (Ephesians 4:16) as we continue to successfully proclaim that “Jesus is Lord” from the blocks surrounding Hamilton Dream Center and throughout the community.
The Ministry Team of Hamilton Dream Center is committed to fulfilling these goals and dreams as led by the Holy Spirit. It is our desire to be in-line with His desires.
God’s Word tells us that partnership in ministry is the most powerful relationship on the face of the earth. It is a covenant relationship based on the blood of Jesus. It is a relationship of the highest honor. Consequently, it is a relationship of the highest commitment.
I, ________________________________________, dated___________________________, by signing and dating this agreement pledge to be a partner with Hamilton Dream Center. I will actively participate in one or more ministries within the church. I will strive to be led by the Holy Spirit in carrying out all facets of my partnership to the glory and honor of Jesus, my King and Savior.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

i really dont agree with this my self. no such thing ever existed in the bible. and limiting votes to tithers is really showing favortism.

so though i understand where you are comming from, your getting away from the Voice of God going to, we the people.

If we single people out we do no service to God cause we are making " figurative" the poor man sit on the floor, while we reserve a seat for the richman.

The church i attend. the preacher will tell you he cares less if you tithe or give money. He knows the bills have to get paid, but he isnt gonna bash people for not paying tithes or limit them because they dont give.

That is between them and God not him and man. so i personally disagree with this view. I think this is the fault of catholicism and what the reformation took from it. Though i have took a pledge like you stated in the church of God, i can look back now and not agree withit. I was young in the Lord and i figured that church would have stayed my home.

However when a new pastor took over I new i didnt want to stay there anymore cause of what was happening behind the pullpit. so i left that pledge.

My allegiance is to Jesus Christ and in that i will find people in the Body where ever I go.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

If people want to take vows, claim a man as their pastor and local church assembly, support through finances and attendance...I suppose that there's no harm in it.


I also realize and respect that as a non-member, I would not be allowed to vote in church matters. It does not necessarily mean that I would not be providing financial assistance to the church I attend because I take no vows of membership. The church or pastor will never know my contributions.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Yes, our church has a formal membership and we have informal membership. Both are considered equal as for as pastoral care, participation in service (including singing special, ministering, communion, etc), but only formal members can vote during business meeting. We don't make a fuss over this except at any business meeting.

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to be a member of the upci you had to look and act like them. that means if a women wants to be a member she would have to adhire to the dress code set fourth by them.

This was a discussion that me and my former pastor had at one time. also along with the regulation though not as many for man as well. including no facial hair on the platform. this means choir, musicians, preaching etc

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Member or not, I've never written my givings on a donation envelope. Quite honestly I don't want the pastor (or anyone else) to know if I've given 10, 50, 100 or 1000 (or more) on any given week/month/year.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

LOL, was waiting for the "wasn't in the Bible" reply... neither were keyboards, electric lights, air conditioning or pa systems, but they sure are tools that are helpful....lol.

As far as the poor man, rich man... that's a bit of a bad analogy.... that would mean the more one gives the more of a vote the man gets. Not so... it's just saying, those who do not invest in that local assembly shouldn't get equal vote of those who do. They don't tie the vote to the amount of the tithe, but whether or not the person tithes.

But to be in good standing, you also have to be faithful in attendance, and other items. A person could be a member of a church (have their name on the roll), but have not been there in 2 years.... that would be a member "not in good standing.". So they wouldn't have a vote either. See, church's that have formal membership can't remove someone from their rolls except for certain, distinct reasons.... so they then have to have members in good standing or not classifications.

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My parents give cash and never record their giving in anyway, therefore the church has no record as well. However, they both know as well they can't vote in business sessions, and can't serve in any church office, like SS Teacher, Deacon, etc since there is no record to show they support that local church with their finances.

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all though we have Pa systems etc etc. those are material things, and the 1st church in the 1st century shared all material things.

Like i said i understand your part but still i havent seen a reason for such things.

the grecians widows was murmuring because they was being neglected by the hebrews in food distribution. we must be carefull to not allow that to happen.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Thirty years ago, my "instruction" about tithing included that if you give your 10%, you can take it off on your charitable contributions at the end of the tax year. :foottap

I also was told that you cannot outgive God when giving your tithes and offerings. No mention of alms.....:foottap

While this is very true, I am of the belief that giving is between man and God. I further believe that God blesses because of our faith that He will provide for his children, not because I gave a certain percentage of my income to the organized church system.

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and this is a good example of why, and Im not picking at you but this is a really good reason why it shouldnt be a factor of such things. cause your parents have been segregated because of the lack of record because of tithes.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

if you really want to get into tithes it was for the levites, under the old covenant, However God does love a cheerful giver.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

My brother was vulnerable to this teaching when he lived in the northwest. His wife called it "god-casino" teachings.

My brother decided to prove it by going to one of those pay-day loan places and borrow $400 to give to the pastor ...for some reason or another.

To me, that money was not given in faith, but more of a let's temp God to prove if what is taught about money is true or not.

He not only had to pay that $400 back, but he had to pay 40% or so interest.

He threw his wife "under the bus" [figuratively speaking] deflecting the blame why he did not tithe onto her when pinned down by the pastor.

It caused real problems between them.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

So...I guess the Apostles would not be able to take part in the building's business. Sometimes God uses the poorest of the poor to deliver his Word to others.
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

(Acts 3:6)


The best teachings would go elsewhere. :)

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

You don't consider "alms", giving to the poor, benevolence, etc as offerings? See, you have to understand here, I don't subscribe to the typical financial system most Apostolic churches do... that tithes to the pastor, and offerings to the church operations.

I believe tithes are to go to the local church, and the salaries of the ministers (if they are salaried), insurance, light bill, christian education expenses, etc should all come from the tithe. Then anything anyone gives above and beyond is an offering, whether it be in the missions offering, extra money in the plate, or handing it to the begger on the street needing food.... to me, all of that is offerings.

And yes, I do believe Pastors should be salaried, and have a set amount per month, so that all churches can operate on a budget, have a forecasted budget, etc and plan for growth, savings, etc. I do not believe that all the tithe should go to the pastor, and do not believe that the pastor should own the building, church vans, property, etc.

I also don't believe in external fundraisers, and that all ministries, ladies, men, youth, children, etc should all be funded from the tithe brought into the church.... I know that will set some off around here, lol.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Yes, we have had plenty of recent conversations on these forums about tithes.

You preaching to a singer in the choir on this subject. :D

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

So because someone is poor they don't have anything to give? Even when I was broke... I had something to give... even if it's a penny......

It sounds like your debate is about giving... and that's not what I started this thread about... so if you want to discuss giving, etc... would be glad to but will need another thread started. This thread is about does your church have formal membership, and if it does or doesn't....why or why not.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Excellent points here. However, looking at the needs and what the body of Christ can do, several non-apostolic churches in my area worked with businesses for their spare and old food and other articles. When they organized this effort, they required any church by a lawfully recognized church (either through the state or federal government). This then necessitated the need for by-laws and membership. It wasn't a bondage on folk but a way to minister to people.

In the latter part of the OT, Jesus taught to render to Caesar and to God what belonged to each. Using charitable contribution deductions, the cheerful giver can prevent Caesar from taxing the things that are given to God and for use in the kingdom.

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Great points... just like with ordination and licensing of ministers. That piece of paper means nothing... but if you want to minister in Maximum Security Prisons in TN, better be ordained.... and have a piece of paper to show it. Licensed minister isn't good enough, must be ordained.

And in dealing with non profit org laws in many places, you must be incorporated, have by-laws, and have formal membership rolls, etc to participate.

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I've always been of the strong belief that time given is also the equivalent of money when it comes to tithes and offerings. The value of which can become pretty nebulous but then again only if your one to count every seed and divide every penny. :)

When it comes to giving we all need to be more like four men at a restaurant, not four women.

Four women go out to eat and the bill comes to 38.78. One inevitably grabs a calculator and starts figuring out what each person owes along with the proper tip.

Four guys go out to eat and the bill comes to 38.78. All four throw in a $20 bill and consider the excess a tip. All walk out happy.

(Granted I do not believe in the tithe as a still-existing law, but I do believe in giving.)

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

It really is only to satisfy the worldly requirements. Callings and gifts come from God, not man nor an institute, but to reach some, you need these things. Paul considered that some flexibility was required on the preacher's part in order to minister the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:22b ...I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

That is a good concept Bro. Robbins, but I never experienced that during my time in a OP church. I was indoctrinated that offerings to go to the organized church system and not for alms.

In this region, when attending an Apostolic church system, I've only known that, as it was explained to me, 1. all tithes went to the pastor and 2. offerings went to the expenses of the church.

Special offerings were taken up for:
Building funds.
Missions.
Sunday School offerings. (Every Sunday, of course)
Ladies Auxillary funded themselves.
Youth funded themselves.
Parents funded children's ministries...if there was one.

If a saint was experiencing an individual crisis, then after all the other offerings were taken up, a special one time offering was taken up for the family in need. Sometimes it is money for the needy, sometimes it was food from the pantry. But most times it was a one time thing.

Sorry, but this is the way I experienced it, which is one reason why I will not hold membership of any church in this region.

And yes, acerrak is correct that tithing belongs to the Levite because the levites had no land inheritance from which to have sustenance for the family. They were God's servants and the rest of the tribes tithed for them, the widows, orphans and strangers.

Today, the Holy Ghost is the earnest of our inheritance, which is worth far more than the 10% tithe.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Let me remind you that when you started this thread, you said this:


So with what you posted in mind and me knowing that all members with the above rules would not really be a member in good standing without the "financial support" you made giving an issue.


Furthermore, if it was a "giving" debate with me, as you just posted, then I would not have posted this:



Your quote:




But because you posted that your own parents follow their convictions about giving cash and that they would never be allowed to participate in church ministry because there is no record to show that they support their local church with their finances....I would say that this thread about church membership includes finances. You, yourself would say that a person who does not give of their finances would not be a member in good standing.
So...yes...church membership includes giving and how it is spent.

Even though I was at one time a member of good standing, I still had no vote in how the monies given were spent. The pastor told it and that was the way it was.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

No, and some threads around here stay on point. And not everyone will agree with each other.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

My momma always told me that some threads on AFF were like a box of chocolates...

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

And you can tell a lot by a thread. Where it's going... where it's been....

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Actually, many times the 'informal membership role' and the formal role are very similar. It is not just always well advertised when one moves into that position. Obviously, anyone who leaves the church (moving, backsliding, etc.) are considered to have changed membership. This is why there are letters of transfer that will often be exchanged. This allows for an official transfer of membership to the new congregation.

Most churches are required by law (or good common sense) to have a church constitution or by-laws detailing who may be an official member generally this includes paying tithes, living according to the Bible, and adhering to the standards of the church. Official members are also voting members. Most churches have the formal requirements, even if it is not well advertised.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

let's not take this thread off into the tithing controversy.

Christians don't agree on tithing.
Some think it is no longer in effect for us under the New Covenant.
Some think it is a principle which goes beyond law and grace.
Some think it is a way to get more money back from God like "let's make a deal."
Some think it is salvational.

Jesus knows what we all have and what we all give. He speaks about that in Mark 12:41-44. The amount given is not important but the attitude of the heart of the giver is supremely important.

YES! I think it's great.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

We have no formal membership, however we have what are considered voting member guidelines. Before a business meeting pastor will read the requirements and ask that if you do not meet those requirements, please don't vote. Off the top of my head the voting requirements are the new birth experience (Acts 2:38), faithful attendance for a year, faithful in tithes and offering, and living the Holiness standards of the church.

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

that is formal membership... there may not be an induction, or a taking of vows, but there are formal requirements that make you a voting member. I've been shocked at how few OP churches even have these formal of requirements, but to be honest, I'm surprised at how few of them ever have business sessions, vote over major decisions, or even publish a church financial statement....

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

however that still isnt tithing but i agree with same that we shouldnt turn it into a tithing debate, its just when people are segregated because they dont openly show the amount they give and then are not allowed to teach as bro robbins describes i do have issue with. and they do go sorta hand and hand

Re: Does Your Church Have Formal Membership?
 

Acerrak, could I present to you a hypothetical, but very prominent scenario? Happens all the time. A church needs to build, and will be taking on a significant amount of debt to do so. For this to happen, the pastor will be providing the details in a business session of just how large the loan would have to be, the payments, what the budget of the church would need to be to do so and still continue other ministries, etc. This vote is a huge deal.

Do you want someone who doesn't even support the church with any finances, isn't faithful in their attendance, and doesn't support outreach able to have the same vote as you who supports with your finances, gives of your time, and is involved? I certainly don't... It's just not fair.

And if a pastor just says, before we vote... only those who truly are faithful in your support and finances are allowed to vote, but no official list is kept.... how are we sure everyone is honest? Because if someone won't give to the work of God, they're probably not above lying so that they can vote either.

If there's a better way to remedy situations like this then I'm all for it, but I've not seen any other way than keeping rolls, membership lists, and finance records....

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I actually wasn't using that reference for tithing, but in the general sense of any charitable contributions to the church. Many give after receiving a paycheck which has been taxed by Caesar. Declaring charitable contributions on your income tax is the way to get back tax money that shouldn't have been levied in the first place.

Some states, like my state of Maine, has laws concerning unorganized (unincorporated) churches. Based solely on their attendance and contributions, they are "formal members" in the eyes of the state and have a say equal to the amount of their contributions. If a group of contributors got together, they could significantly and legally change the direction of the local assembly.