You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Volunteer chaplains in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. will no longer be allowed to invoke the name of Jesus in prayers at public events held on government property.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...ing-jesus.html

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Wonder if they can invoke Mohammad?

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

No one prays to Mohammed or Buddha.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Will have to find out from some Muslim friends how they pray. They sure have a lot of prayers.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

You will be surprised who people are praying to.....:smack

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

:heeheehee

today is houston's day for getting smacked in the head.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Cindy - Muslims don't pray to Mohammad!

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Thank you.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

We just gonna have to be like Daniel.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Praying and invoking are not the same, anyway. To invoke is to call upon while you are praying.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

the argument here is , they are allowed to pray, they just simple are not allowed to end the prayer as many of us do. "in Jesus name".


Maybe they would be ok with "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost." :stirpot

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

How do you know? Fox news? May God rebuke you. The Qur'an makes plain in many places that the Pentateuch was given to be studied, and that there is only one God.

Wishing you (or they) were different does not make it so, Dordt.
"Ishmael was blessed of God," so Scripture plainly
calls that a lie.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Are you offended by Muslims, Dordt?

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

what does pray mean in this scripture?

2 Corinthians 5:20

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Actually the koran itself testifies that the God of the Jews and Christians is not the same as the god of the muslims. The god in the koran declares that he is not a father nor does he beget. The God of the Jews and Christians declares of Jesus Christ, "unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given", "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", and "God so loved the world that He gave is only begotten Son".

Diving back into history, the god of the muslims had, at one time, three daughters (who were to be worshipped as goddesses), until their "prophet" decided he was tricked by the devil into revealing to everyone about god's three daughters.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

They should start their prayer with: "Dear sweet clean babysonofMary"

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

I started reading the Qur'an about the time I started on this forum, and I would call this a mis-characterization at best. It states that one should follow Christ, and admits the sanctity of the Pentateuch. While it is written from a different pov, Christians have all the same concepts, and one, even Dordt, would be hard pressed to point to a single passage that they have any problem with.

As I'm pretty sure that all the opinions of any Muslim-haters come from Fox news, and not the Qur'an, I would invite you to post any passages, including any about Fatherhood, that you might have a problem with. When context is taken into consideration, these passages become clear; unless, of course, you pray to Christ (or Mary), or have some other Romish problem.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

The Qur'an does not disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dordrecht (Post 1169597) Don't get me going on the koran, a book designed by satan.

Oh, BAM, get going; what passage in the Qur'an do you have a problem with? I'll just hold my breath...

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

It's NOT a mis-characterization, NOR is it muslim-hating to point out what is written in the koran. Seeing as you have studied the koran, you already know the passages that are written concerning their god not having a son; however, a simple google search will bring up several (not just a few) koran passages that emphatically, and clearly, state the the god of the muslims has not, does not, and has no plans to beget any son (context is very clear). It's not Fox News stating this; it's the koran itself. It is the koran denying that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It is clear from these passages that the god of the muslim is not the God of the Christians.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

I would pray in Jesus name no matter what they threatened to do to me. I'd slap them with a civil rights law suit and scream persecution in every interview and article. Given the nature of religion, the government should be allowed to restrict ANYONE from invoking their god...whomever they might worship.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

I have not read the "Holy Qur'an" as our President refers to it, but it is my understanding that there is a different slant on which son Abraham offered in Genesis chapter 22 and which of his sons was to be his heir.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Would this offend?


Lovely Lady Dressed in Blue

Lovely Lady dressed in blue ----

Teach me how to pray! 

God was just your little boy,

Tell me what to say!

Did you lift Him up, sometimes, 

Gently on your knee? 

Did you sing to Him
the way 
Mother does to me?

Did you hold His hand at night?

Did you ever try 

Telling stories of the world? 

O! And did He cry?

Do you really think He cares 

If I tell Him things-
Little things that happen? And

Do the Angels' wings

Make a noise?
And can He hear 

Me if I speak low? 

Does He understand me now? 

Tell me ---- for you know?

Lovely Lady dressed in blue ----
Teacj me how to pray! 

God was just your little boy, 

And you know the way.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

this is lengthy and will have to be split up into several posts but it shows how Franklin Graham handled prayer "in Jesus' Name."



This is chapter 3, pages 21 through 34 of Franklin
Graham’s book The Name which was copyrighted in 2002.

There are factions of society today that hate God and
everything that He stands for. But I did not expect
such a vehement backlash. In America, where our
currency declares “In God We Trust,” it still
surprises me that when a Christian minister does what
he is ordained to do –read and quote from the Bible,
share the truth of the Gospel, pray in the Name of
Jesus –some people view these acts as borderline
subversive!

In January of 2001, our nation was perhaps more
divided politically than at any time I can remember.
The controversy surrounding the presidential election
vote count in Florida had polarized Americans. Even
though most voters were pleased to see a change in the
White House after eight turbulent years, according to
pollsters, nearly 50 percent were disappointed and
even convinced that Governor Bush and the Republicans
had somehow manipulated the outcome. In hindsight,
election officials and even the media concurred after
intense scrutiny and review, that this was not the
case.

My father has had the honor of praying or
participating in some way at eight presidential
inaugurations, beginning with the ceremony for Lyndon
Johnson in 1965. When it came time for Bill Clinton’s
second inauguration, my father was invited once again
to offer an inaugural prayer. Because his health
problems had flared, he asked me to accompany him to
Washington D.C.

During that ceremony, I was seated at my father’s
right side on the inaugural platform. To my left sat
all of the Supreme Court justices in their robes and
caps. Behind was the Democratic and Republican
leadership from both houses of Congress.

This spectacular event always involves much pomp and
circumstance. The election battle is over. The time
now comes for the government of this mighty land and
its citizens to inaugurate a president.

I had been impressed to see members of the opposing
political parties –in heated battle for the prize of
the White House just two months before –now shaking
hands and greeting each other warmly. Life for both
the nation and individuals would move on. Bill Clinton
would continue to govern. Bob Dole would return to
private life, make speeches, and enjoy other
productive activities outside the Senate chamber. What
a great nation and system of government.

When the time had come for my father to pray, the only
help needed was a firm hand to help him stand.

Following the ceremony the dignitaries and guests had
walked up the steps of the Capitol Building to attend
the inaugural luncheon hosted by the Joint
Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies. This
gathering has long been a tradition and serves to
further make the statement that that inauguration day
symbolizes our unity as a nation. My father had been
asked to offer the prayer of blessing for the food,
and so he was seated at the head table. I was seated a
short distance away, concerned that he would need some
help to the podium when it came time to pray. I
approached Vice President Al Gore, seated next to my
father, and asked him if he would assist my father if
needed. He graciously agreed and when my father was
introduced, Vice President Gore helped him to his feet
to make his way to the microphone.

Though the day had been filled with historical
pageantry, I was happy to put it all on the back
burner and head for the hills of North Carolina and to
my mountain home.

Now, four years later as the inauguration of the
forty-third president approached, the inaugural
committee eagerly wanted Billy Graham to participate
in the ceremony. Perhaps more so than for any other
president-elect, my father really wanted to do this
for George W. Bush. Some years before, while visiting
the Bush family at Kennebunkport, Maine, my father and
George W. had had a conversation on issues of faith
that had made a dramatic impact on Bush’s life, as he
describes in his biography, “A Charge to Keep.”

However, with weather forecasters predicting a cold,
wet January morning in the Washington D.C. area, my
father’s doctors at the Mayo Clinic had urged him not
to put himself at risk by attending the inauguration,
as it would be held outdoors. The Inaugural Committee,
on behalf of President-elect Bush, called and asked me
to give the invocation in my father’s place. I had
already been invited to speak at the president’s
prayer service at Washington National Cathedral the
Sunday following the inauguration, but to deliver the
invocation at the swearing in was another matter.
Years ago I had told my father that I would stand with
him and help him in any way I could, so how could I
say no? With a deep sense of responsibility, I
accepted the invitation and began to prepare. What an
opportunity –to pray for the new president and his
administration, as well as stand in for the man I love
and respect so much. I also saw this as an awesome
responsibility that could not be taken lightly.

to be continued in part 2

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

continued from part 1

Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, pastor of the large Windsor
Village United Methodist Church in suburban Houston,
was scheduled to deliver the benediction. Reverend
Caldwell was a friend of the Bush family and had
introduced George W. at the Republican National
Convention the previous summer.

I labored to construct a prayer that would invoke
God’s power. Millions would be listening. My deep
desire was to focus the nation on Almighty God, ask
for His blessing upon the incoming president and
outgoing administration, and to bring glory to His
Name.

The nation was still licking its election wounds. I
pondered the turmoil that the country was still
feeling as I wondered how I should close the prayer.
Many times Christian pastors praying in public forums
just finish their prayers with “…in the Name of God.”
But for me to do so would falsify who I am. I would be
disobedient by denying the One I follow. I have always
prayed in Jesus’ Name. I know of no other ground on
which a sinner like me can come before a God who is
holy.

Here is another way of looking at it. England’s Queen
Elizabeth knighted my father in December 2001, but he
was unable to travel to the United Kingdom to receive
this honor. Instead, the queen authorized the British
ambassador to the United States to confer the
knighthood upon my father in Washington D.C., on her
behalf. What if the ambassador had acted on his own,
without Her Majesty giving him that power? His
knighthood would have been meaningless. Similarly, we
have no basis or authority to come to God in any way
except through the Lord Jesus Christ –the
Representative God Himself personally sent to us when,
through our human striving, we could not reach Him.

Years ago as a young man I sensed that if
opportunities came for public ministry they were from
God. Now He had opened a door. I had been given a
larger platform –the opportunity to help direct the
eyes of the nation to God, To honor His Son, wasn’t
even a question. How could I do anything different
than to pray in His Name?

The Friday afternoon before the inauguration, I
attended a meeting of the platform participants
conducted by the Inaugural Committee. We met at a
Washington hotel to review the order of service. It
was in that conference room where I met Rev. Kirbyjon
Caldwell: tall, handsome, articulate –a powerhouse of
a preacher. After introductions, his personal warmth
made me feel as though we had been longtime friends.
We found a few minutes to talk privately, and Rev.
Caldwell said, ”Franklin, I want to ask you a
question. Are you going to pray in the Name of Jesus?”

“Yes,” I answered. “I always do.”

“Good!” Kirbyjon said, flashing a great big smile. “I
am too.”

I chuckled to myself and thought, “I like him; he’s
got guts for Jesus.”

Inauguration day, Saturday, January 21, the forecast
had been accurate. Temperatures were near freezing. A
chilling drizzle fell from the ground-hugging clouds.
My father had made a good decision to stay home.

My wife, Jane, and I arrived at the Capitol Building
at 9 A.M. and were taken to a holding room with other
platform participants. A couple of hours later we were
led to the top of the Capitol steps by a marine, where
a spokesman announced our arrival over the P.A.
system. I was seated in a chair placed in the same
spot my father had occupied four years earlier. I
could hot help but realize how God had used that
experience to prepare me for this day. From the noise
in front of the Capitol, I could tell a large crowd
was assembled, but seeing faces was impossible due to
a large bank of TV cameras in front of the stage that
blocked the view.

I was struck again by this smooth transfer of power as
dignitaries descended the steps and took their seats.
Although the presidential election had been vigorously
contested in a way unprecedented in American history,
the time had come for America to honor and install a
new leader. And in spite of political hostilities, our
country has always risen to the occasion with dignity.

When the last guests were seated, the president-elect
and his family were announced and escorted to the
platform as thunderous applause echoed through the
fog. Directly in front of me sat the outgoing team of
President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore.
Across the aisle sat the incoming team of
President-elect George W. Bush and Vice
President-elect Dick Cheney.

Anticipation swelled. People of such diverse
backgrounds and political persuasions had come
together in a moment of unity. The Lord, in His
sovereign power, was allowing me the privilege of
telling others about Someone more important than
anyone on that platform –the One bearing the Name
above all other names.

The time of invocation came and I made my way to the
podium. Speaking into the bitter January air, I
offered this prayer to God Almighty as my breath
turned to white puffs.

“Blessed are You, O Lord, our God.
Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power
And the glory and the majesty and the splendor;
For everything in heaven and earth is Yours.
Yours, O Lord, is the kingdom;
You are exalted as head over all.
Wealth and honor come from You;
You are the ruler of all things.
In Your hands are strength and power to exalt
And give strength to all.”

I wanted to make clear at the very outset that as
great a nation as America is, we are still dependent
totally on the mercy of a holy and great God.

“As President Lincoln once said,
We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties
of heaven.
We have been preserved these many years in peace and
prosperity.
We have grown in numbers, wealth, and power,
As no other nation has ever grown.
But we have forgotten God.
It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the
Offended Power,
To confess our national sins,
And to pray for clemency and forgiveness.”

I thought what Lincoln –one of our greatest presidents
–had said was perfect for our present hour, in light
of the previous eight years. Although in the same time
period our country had experienced abundant
prosperity, it was important to remember from where
all blessings come –the mercy of our heavenly Father.

to be continued in part 3

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

continued from part 2

“O Lord,
As we come together on this historic
And solemn occasion to inaugurate once again
A president and vice president,
Teach us afresh that power, wisdom, and salvation
Come only from Your hand.”

“We pray, O Lord, for
President-elect George W. Bush
And Vice President-elect Richard B. Cheney,
To whom You have entrusted leadership
Of this nation at this moment in history.”

“We pray that You will help them bring our country
together,
So that we may rise above partisan politics
And seek the larger vision of Your will for our
nation.
Use them to bring reconciliation between the races
And healing to political wounds,
That we may truly become ‘one nation under God.’”

Our country had never had such a difficult and
potentially divisive presidential election. Many
citizens were bitter and disillusioned by the process
and the outcome. There were more angry demonstrators
protesting on the streets of Washington D.C. than at
any inauguration since the Vietnam War. We needed
supernatural help to forgive one another, to heal
wounds, to move on as a united people.

“Give our new president and all who advise him
Calmness in the Face of Storms,
Encouragement in the Face of Frustration and
Humility in the Face of Success.”

Of course none of us could have realized, when I asked
the Lord to give George W. Bush “calmness in the face
of storms,” just how great a storm would howl eight
months later on Tuesday morning, September 11.

“Give them the wisdom to know, and to do, what is
right,
And the courage to say no to all that is contrary to
Your statutes and holy law.”

“Lord, we pray for their families
And especially their wives,
Laura Bush and Lynne Cheney,
That they may sense Your Presence
And know Your Love.”

“Today we entrust to You
President and Senator Clinton,
And Vice President and Mrs. Gore.”

“Lead them as they journey through new doors of
opportunity to serve others.”

“Now, O Lord, we dedicate this
Presidential Inaugural Ceremony to You.
May this be the beginning of a new dawn for America
As we humble ourselves before You
And acknowledge You alone
As our Lord, Our Savior, and our Redeemer.”

Believing God was directing every word of my prayer, I
had carefully chosen the word “Redeemer.” Naturally, I
was referring to the One who came to give His life for
all who will ever draw breath on this planet. The
redemption He purchased with the sacrifice of His own
blood is available to anyone who will simply accept it
–regardless of creed, nationality, religion, race,
reputation, or personal history. I knew stating that
there is no other Name by which an individual can be
saved would grate on some ears and prick certain
hearts. However, as a minister of the Gospel, I was
not there to stroke he egos of men. My role was to
acknowledge the all-powerful One and please Him. The
Bible says: “Therefore, whoever confesses Me before
men, him I will also confess before My Father who is
in heaven.”

I fear God in a healthy way. I know how proud the
Father is of His Son. As a parent, I know how pleased
my wife, Jane, and I are when someone says something
nice about our children. Would God not have a similar
response? Would He not be pleased to hear us
acknowledge with honor the Name of His beloved Son? I
want to please my Father in heaven no matter the cost.

to be continued in part 4

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

part 4

I continued:

“We pray this in the name of the Father,
And of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ,
And of the Holy Spirit. Amen”

To my surprise, I heard amens and applause from an
audience assembled primarily for political interests
–not religious. I was gratified that those listening
had understood the importance of seeking God’s favor.
Upon returning to my seat, Senator Hillary Clinton,
seated next to Tipper Gore, who sat next to Chelsea
Clinton to my right, reached across these two ladies,
clasped my hand, and whispered, “Thank you.”

Able now to sit back and take in the remaining
ceremony, I was proud of the president as he delivered
an eloquent and power-filled speech and rejoiced with
the ringing benediction given by Rev. Kirbyjon
Caldwell. He did not hold anything back. He honored
the Lord Jesus Christ and prayed in His Name.

After the swearing in, once again honoring the custom,
the platform party followed President Bush and his
family up the Capitol Building steps to the dome for
the inaugural luncheon. Members of the Senate, the new
cabinet, Supreme Court justices and their spouses were
assembled. Just as my father had done four years
earlier, I offered a prayer for the meal followed by
heartwarming comments by President Bush to the
distinguished guests. During the meal there was a
steady stream of senators, both Democrat and
Republican, who came to the head of the table to
congratulate the new president. It is a day I will
never forget, and I dare say most Americans will not
forget either.

Jane and I were privileged to observe the inaugural
parade down Pennsylvania Avenue from the president’s
viewing box. As the festivities were concluding, I
slipped back to my hotel to put the final touches on
my message to be delivered the next morning at the
Cathedral. Most elected officials from the capitol
city attended. This was specifically a religious
service, the first event sponsored by the new Bush
White House. I felt complete freedom in the pulpit to
say what I believed God had put in my heart.

After this service, I greeted the president and his
family and assured him of my prayers as he shouldered
such a heavy responsibility. That afternoon, following
lunch with friends, I eagerly flew to a more serene
atmosphere…home in the western mountains of North
Carolina.

I thought I had left the inaugural flurry behind.
However, days later, Alan Dershowitz, a man who
described himself as a deeply committed Jew, took
offense at my use of the Name of Jesus Christ.
Dershowitz, a professor at Harvard Law School and an
attorney who has defended clients as diverse as O.J.
Simpson and Jim Bakker, in an opinion piece for the
Los Angeles Times, said: “The very first act of the
new Bush administration was to have a Protestant
Evangelical minister officially dedicate the
inauguration to Jesus Christ, whom he declared to be
‘our Savior.’ Invoking ‘the Father, the Son, the Lord
Jesus Christ’ and ‘the Holy Spirit,’ Billy Graham’s
son, the man selected by George W. Bush to bless his
presidency, excluded the tens of millions of Americans
who are Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoist,
Unitarians, agnostics and atheists from his blessing
by his particularistic and parochial language.”

The entire article continued in the same venomous
vein. Dershowitz did not disguise his outrage: “It is
permissible in the United States to reject any
particular theology. Indeed that is part of our
glorious diversity. What is not acceptable is for a
presidential inauguration to exclude millions of
citizens from its opening ceremony by dedicating it to
a particular religious ‘savior.’”

The Dershowitz article concluded, “If Bush wants all
Americans to accept him as their president, he made an
inauspicious beginning by sandwiching his unity speech
between to divisive, sectarian and inappropriate
prayers.”

What was he talking about? I am a Christian. Don’t ask
me to pray like a Hindu. I am not a Hindu. Don’t ask
me to pray to Muhammad; I am not a Muslim, I am a
Christian. That is who I am; a believer in the
greatest man that ever lived –Jesus Christ—a Jew.

The second prayer that Dershowitz referred to was, of
course, the benediction prayed by Kirbyjon Caldwell in
which he had also closed by invoking the Name of
Jesus. Kirbyjon told USA Today, I would have been
misrepresenting who I am and arguably even why I was
there had I not prayed in Jesus’ Name.”

Amen, Kirbyjon!

Alan Dershowitz should remember that this nation was
built on a Christian foundation. Patrick Henry once
declared, “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too
often that this great nation was founded, not by
religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but
on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason
people of other faiths have been afforded asylum,
prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”

I found Dershsowitz’s criticism galling. I had not
excluded millions of Americans from my prayer. I
wanted to ask Mr. Dershowitz, “Since I am a minister
of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, if I am to
express my religious freedom, how am I supposed to
pray?” And who has the right to tell me what I should
pray? As an American, am I not guaranteed freedom of
speech? Freedom of worship? In my prayer, I did not
force anyone to agree with me. I did not suggest that
the inaugural ceremony could not continue until
everyone present “came forward to pray the sinner’s
prayer.” I just did what I do; I always pray in His
Name.

Others chimed in with Dershowitz. Barry Lynn, head of
Americans United for the Separation of Church and
State, said that both inaugural prayers were
“inappropriate and insensitive.” An article in the New
Republic described the prayers that Kirbyjon and I
offered as “crushing Christological thuds” that
“barred millions of Americans from their own amens.”

I was not without defenders. I received hundreds of
enthusiastic letters from individuals, and many in the
media offered support. Jeff Jacoby, a columnist for
the Boston Globe, wrote: “Like it or not, American
Jews –like American Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and
atheists—are different from their neighbors. This
country was founded by Christians and built on broad
Christian principles. Threatening? Far from it: It is
in precisely this Christian country that Jews have
known the most peaceful, prosperous and successful
existence in their long history. In America, a
non-Christian need not answer, ‘Amen’ to an explicitly
Christian prayer. This is a society where members of
minority faiths live and worship without fear, secure
in the hospitality and liberty America extends to all
religions. No American should try to suppress the
prayers of others. ‘Jesus’ should not be a forbidden
word in this land. Not even at a presidential
inauguration.”

A letter to the Jewish press stated; “No doubt any
prayer would be offensive and exclusive to an atheist,
but indulging such sensitivity would effectively give
the non-believer a veto power over the free expression
rights of the believer…I would expect a Christian
minister who deeply believes in his faith to give a
prayer grounded on that faith.”

The opinions expressed by some of those who reacted
negatively should sound a loud warning bell to
followers of Christ in America. For example, a student
at Kent State University wrote, “Graham encourages us
to acknowledge his God alone as our Lord, our Savior
and our Redeemer.” He’s exactly right. I do encourage
everyone to acknowledge the one true God, and His Son
and Him alone.

to be continued

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

final part

I cannot agree with the idea that every religious
leader should be forced to pray “politically correct”
prayers. Allowing someone to pray as he does normally
in expressing his faith does not explicitly discount
other religions. Think about this: If an atheist were
invited to give the invocation at an inaugural –perish
the thought—would we expect him to pray in the name of
Jesus or any god?

I believe that the response to the inaugural prayers
is additional evidence of a disturbing trend in
American public life: Christians who use the Name of
Jesus and insist that He is “the one and only way to
God” are increasingly viewed by many in the liberal
media as narrow minded religious bigots who represent
a threat to the rest of society.

Americans are extremely religious as the Gallup poll
shows. But that religious bent rubs against another
rubs against another value in our society that may
trump all others: tolerance. In our thirst for
personal autonomy, deal we seek is, “I will not
question your beliefs or behavior you will do the same
for me.” Does this now apply to spiritual issues too?

An eloquent advocate of Christian faith, Ravi
Zacharias wrote in Jesus Among Other Gods, “We are
living in a time when angry voices demand with
increasing insistence that we ought not to propagate
the Gospel, that we ought not to consider anyone
‘lost’ just because they are not Christians. ‘We are
all born into different beliefs, and therefore, we
should leave it that way’ –so goes the tolerant
‘wisdom’’ of our time…When people make such
statements, they forget or do not know that one is not
born a Christian. All Christians are such by virtue of
conversion. To ask the Christian not to reach out to
anyone else who is from another faith is to ask that
Christian to deny his own faith.”

None of this discussion and fuss really amounts to a
hill of beans if Jesus Christ was just another “great
teacher.” But what if He is more that? He is the One
who said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No
one comes to the Father except through Me.” A loyal
follower of Jesus does not concoct personal ideas
about these matters. All he or she does is faithfully
represent the words of the Master. But this is
increasingly considered suspect and even subversive in
America.

Most “burning issues” in our day flame out quickly.
Such was the case with the inaugural prayers. The
media attention span is short, but at least for a few
days in early 2001, the Name Jesus was heard in public
discourse as something other than a curse word.

The bold reentry of the Name would not happen again
for many months, until a shocking Tuesday morning in September.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

"Ishmael was blessed of God," and this silly obfuscation @ "God's Son" is pointless. If your God is not their God, that is your problem. You four and no more can go wherever you like, but if you pretend that a Muslim is hell-bound because of some difference of religion you are deceived.

You would do much better to hate on Catholics or something, as all this Muslim-bashing, which is what you are doing whether you want to admit it or not--it is screamed from some thread titles--is quite ridiculous. You become what you warn about. I'm not scared of them; I'm scared of you.

Just like a Christian's, a Muslim's relationship with Christ--who has more names than you know, and is not confined by your definition of Him--is their own business, and the Qur'an plainly states that Christ is the Way; yet you choose to dwell on semantics.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Your sole aim becomes apparent;
"How they are different from us."
Justify it all you like.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

You seem to go out of your way to twist and misread many of the posts. We are not muslim bashing, we're critical of islam...two very different things. muslims have souls that need Jesus...islam is a satanic death cult.

Actually what you call silly and pointless, the Christian Apostle John calls a warning against the spirit of anti-christ. We are not obfuscating, but are quite clear...and the koran is quite clear...it denies that god has a son. In denying that god has a son, it declares itself to be anti-christ, according to the Christian Apostle John.

Again, we're not hating or bashing anyone, muslims, catholics, or whoever.

muslims have no relationship with Jesus Christ, and islam most certainly does not consider Jesus to be their Savior, He serves as a herald declaring another savior.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Well, I've yet to read of any other savior in the Qur'an,
and it plainly states that Christ is to be followed.
I might have a problem @ "God's Son," too,
but taking (Romish) history into consideration, and knowing
quite a few Muslims, and the fact that Christians
on this site have admitted to praying to Christ,
let me say that I'm at least persuaded that claiming
Islam is Satanic makes you look bad.
Your own garden is plenty full of weeds?
And really, pounding on this "God has no son"
thing, which the Qur'an hardly dwells on,
just comes across as another ignorant witch hunt.

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Thank you for calling me ignorant, looking bad, and on a witch hunt. I do admit that my garden is full of weeds and that I definitely need Jesus (perhaps more than others).

Please comment on islam's stance that Jesus did not die on Calvary nor did He die for my (or anyone else's) sins. The following link will help since it was put together by muslims to educate Christians: What the koran says about Jesus

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Are they going to arrest me if I pray in jesus name?:heeheehee

Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
 

Actually I should note that there is no slant on this story at all, at least in the Quran. The truth is that the Quran is silent on which son was sacrificed and simply tells the story of the obedience of Abraham.

Leaving this open as a 1200, 1300 year debate LOL