This Week's Encounters with Legalism
 

I'm fine if no one responds. I need to get my thoughts down about what happened this week.

The background:

The relationship between my mother and I deteriorated since my father passed away in 2008. Without going into details, she has mad some poor decisions with any rational reasons for doing so. As a result, I limited the contact I have with her. My mother is the classic legalist. She knows her standards better than she knows her Bible.

My mom lives 1/2 hour away. But in order to find out there's a family problem, my sister who lives 6 hours away calls me to fill me in about what is happening. My sister calls me Tuesday evening and says mom was in the emergency room with chest pains. The next morning as I was getting ready for work, my wife got a text mom was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia. I didn't have any intentions of going to the hospital to check on mom. The Holy Spirit prompted me to visit mom. I called my wife and told her I was going to check on mom and that I may be late for church.

I had every intention of building my mother's faith with healings I witnessed the past few years. I told her about praying for someone who doctors said needed dialysis until a kidney donor could be found. I told my mom how this lady testified she felt a warmth flow through her body as if someone was hugging her from behind. She said Troy, I knew it wasn't you because you were holding my hands. The lady testified she went back to the doctor and the doctor said her kidneys were doing great, she wasn't going to need dialysis or a kidney transplant.

I told my mom about a lady diagnosed with falling arches. She developed back problems and was in constant pain. She was at our house. I prayed, rebuked the pain, and with a couple minutes she was healed. She was jumping on that leg.

My mom had to interject a story about God doing miracles. Her story was about someone donating $10,000 to pave a church parking lot. I'm sitting there dumbfounded. I'm thinking God is healing people and the best story she has is about a paved parking lot? I wanted to say something really bad, but I held my tongue and changed the subject.

My mother was sharing the hospital room with a lady who was in for various medical issues. She heard the stories of miraculous healings. A few minutes after I told my mom the stories, her roommate started screaming in pain. I asked if I could pray for her pain. She agreed. She told me doctors diagnosed her with restless leg syndrome. She said the pain was seven out of ten. I began to talk to God for a couple minutes. I asked the lady how she felt, she said the pain was at a five. I continued praying for complete healing asking God to fill the lady's body with His love. The lady said she started to feel a warm sensation in her leg and the pain was gone. A few minutes later, a nurse shows up because someone pushed the emergency button for assistance. The lady said I pushed the button to see if you could bring me a pain pill, but I don't need the pill now.

Ironically I asked my mom if she wanted prayer for healing. She said she would be fine. Again, I'm flabbergasted. A lady with a methodist background is healed. A one God, tongue talking apostolic accepts the illness in her body. Needless to say, I walked out without praying for my mom. She had no desire to be healed. Meanwhile the methodist lady had an encounter with God she will never forget.

Re: This Week's Encounters with Legalism
 

Do you think maybe she was waiting for her pastor or someone from her church to pray for her? If she does not approve of where you are at religiously my experience with a lot of people in old time Pentecost is they think that means you are not a "real" Christian so your prayers for healing would not be valid.

Bottom line is that it may not be she does not believe in prayer. Just not yours.

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Wow...id accept prayer from anybody.

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Tis true.

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tv1, many people will not accept family members witness, testimony, or prayers.

Pride? I think many of us have stories like yours.

Knowing that doesn't make it any easier because we want all our loved ones to share in God's healings.

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Part 2.

I don't put a lot of stock in the spooky of the supernatural. But I had a dream a couple days after visiting my mother at the hospital that disturbed and excited me. I dreamed God was using me in one of our church services to encourage people to receive healing. I remember two things about the dream. There were issues with our PowerPoint presentation and I was wearing only one sock and one shoe. I remember in the dream I kept trying to hide my foot, while trying to encourage people to respond to God's presence. I didn't know what the dream meant. I kind of put it off to the side until the Sunday Morning Service.

Right before service started, we had a couple of unexpected guests. A upci missionary and his daughter. They are related to a family who attends our church. Again the element of legalism was present. I told the missionary I was glad to see him, I told him I loved him, and he still looked as young as he did 20 years ago when I first met him. He literally blew me off with some lame remark. No problem. I know he heard a lot of junk about me. It's hard to receive love from someone who has gotten a lot of negative press.

We were singing a song with the line There's no one like you, there's no one like you Lord there's no one like you in all the earth. Something about that line brought the power of God into the room. I got the cue to come up and to share the announcements. I shared the healing I witness earlier in the week. I didn't mention my mother's reaction. As I told the story, we went back into the bridge of the song. Everyone responded to the Spirit's move except for our two guests. I asked if anyone needed healing and two people came up to be prayed for. The first person said she needed healing for her feet. God healed her feet.

In the meantime while God was healing people, our audio/visual techs were switching laptops because of an issue with the overhead projector.

I don't know why main part of my dream had to do with feet and technical glitches in the video department. I don't know if it's a dream, vision, or as Epley calls it, a case of indigestion.

What's sad is the only people who didn't get anything out of the service were the legalists. Twice in one week God was giving people the opportunity to have something miraculous happen. Twice in one week, the so-called less spiritual received a miracle. Twice in one week, people who claim to be so holy and so righteous declined to allow God to supernaturally meet their need.

Why do people who claim to understand God and His ways more than anyone else, shut down when they realize the narrative isn't scripted the way they think it should read, but the person coming to Jesus with child like faith, goes out changed? Some things I'll be reflecting on the next few days.

Re: This Week's Encounters with Legalism
 

My sister sent me an email that was going around her prayer group at church. A lady was in the hospital and wanted anyone on the pastoral staff to pray for her except for one. She had a problem with him. The preacher took it with a grain of salt.

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A prophet hath no honor in his own country.....

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Just the verse I was thinking about.

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tv1a, will you pray for my healing?

I have several things that I have need of. God knows what they are. I am tired and overwhelmed and I need a move of God in my life.

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yes, remember, "God heareth not sinners"

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TV1a - seems like Jesus had the same problem here on earth. He had no problem with the sinners, and those who knew they needed Him. The real problem Jesus encountered were the Pharisees, the legalists if you will.... the legalist Pharisees were the very ones who CRUCIFIED Jesus.

Don't feel alone. You are walking a road the Saviour himself has already walked before...

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the methodist are the original holy rollers, they have holy ghost filled meetings as well, but your right she wont forget it and it will increase her faith.

Sorry about your mom, sounds like a pride issue. Its a difficult situation for you, you love her cause she is your mom but the other half of her pushes you away. She may not realize it, maybe try a heart to heart talk?

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My Methodist grandmother (who's mother was a 48 year charter member of the Methodist church) heard an old white-haired preacher on the corner of their tiny town, in 1933. At first she got mad and sat out to prove that Pentecostal preacher wrong. She was a Bible reading, praying, Methodist lady, walking in all the truth she knew. She THOUGHT she knew all there was to know about the Word. But her preacher had never preached this message.
How can they hear without a preacher and how can he preach unless he be sent. Her preacher couldn't preach something he had never seen or received himself.

However, God wanted her to go further than she had ever gone before. God had already raised her from her death-bed in 1926,when she lay dying of typhoid fever. God answered her prayer when she asked "LORD, if you would see fit, let me live to raise my three children". My late father was 8 yrs, his brother, 5 yrs, and little sister, 2 1/2 yrs. Dad stood beside his father as the doctor said, "Tom, Lizzie's dying! See the blue on the feet and legs". But God heard my little Methodist grandmother's sincere prayer and let (allowed, permitted) her to raise her three young children. HE allowed her to hold my first grandson in 1983. She died in 1984, twenty days before her 87th birthday.

She was the first of our family to embrace the Acts 2 message of salvation. What would have happened IF Grandma had died. But God knew she would follow through. When that old preacher came to their city, she heard, searched out , believed the WORD and repented, was baptized in Jesus Name and received the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT gave the utterance.

Grandma made a decision that would change the course of many generations of her family. Our two little Great-Grandchildren have begun the sixth generation. Their parents are walking in the same truth Grandma received and embraced in 1933. HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!

GOD is still pouring out His Spirit, as of yesterday when a lady who had come her second time to our church, received the Holy Ghost, during the second song. Was baptized in Jesus Name and came out of the water, rejoicing and speaking in tongues again. GOD sees those who are open hearted and are hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and HE is filling them with HIS SPIRIT!

Falla39

Re: This Week's Encounters with Legalism
 

Yes, my grandmother was methodist...she used to tell me she shouted her hair down!

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sister falla i understand you belive in the apostolic movement and your family does as well. but God is saving souls to this day in the methodist churches, the baptist churches the trinitarian pentacostal churches. He isnt calling them out of those churches to place them in the upci or the apostolic movment.

He is redeeming them in those churches and using them to do wonderful things.

Even Gods fruitfull Spirit in them testifies of this. what your grandmother couldnt do back so many years ago to set out and proove that preacher wrong. I can do so today.

the truth was out even before asuza street. God brought back the power and re-established His gifts in saved people. and to this day there is many people who will be in heaven not because of some oneness doctrine but just because they simplied belived in Jesus.

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tv1a, would you consider your mother an UC or someone who has just spent her life in the culture of the UPC? (or I suppose, both).

I know a number of folks who fall into the latter. They are not UC, or even conservative by any means, but they have "the look!" and the lingo and know how to act in church, down pat.

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I KNOW I am going to take alot of flak for this observation before I even put it out here...........

but TV, when I read what you posted, the very first thought I had was that if I were in your Mom's shoes, I am not sure I would want you praying for me either. Not because I am an UC because I most certainly am NOT (I don't even go to an Apostolic church anymore). But you mentioned that you had distanced yourself from your mom before this happened - so much so that even tho she only lives 1/2 hour away from you, you had to hear from your sister 6 hours away that she was even in the hospital. And then, when you heard, did you go to her immediately? No, you waited until "the Holy Spirit prompted" you. Hello? This is your MOTHER!

I am trying very hard not to sound judgmental (I'm not not very successfully. Sorry about that). But what I would like is for you to consider this from your MOTHER's point of view: She has a son who lives a half hour away from her, who distances himself from her because he doesn't agree with the decisions she has been making (even tho she is an adult and has every right to make her own decisions), and who finds out that she is at the hospital with chest pains but doesn't come to her immediately and in fact doesn't even bother to show up until the Holy Spirit prompts him (on Sunday? That's over 5 days later!). I'm not sure I would appreciate your prayers either if I were in his shoes.

Again, I apologize for sounding so harsh. I just want you to consider this from HER point of view. Maybe it's time to examine YOUR heart?

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I had some of those same thoughts about the situation, Margie.
I can't imagine dropping contact with my Mother just because of her
supposed "legalistic tendencies"? At least that's what I gathered as his
reasoning for leaving her alone?? good heavens

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Sis. Alvear,
My late father remembered seeing his mother shout down her long hair in the Methodist church. Hairpins flew everywhere!
He also remembered her cutting her long hair, putting on bright red lipstick and putting on a chemise and dancing the Charlston. This was after her oldest brother, etc., who was in WWWI, came home and the little songs the soldiers sang was no doubt intimidating to the girls, wives, etc. at home.
"Oh the girls in Spain, they go naked in the rain", or "the girls in France, they wear hoocey, koocey pants"! So what might a girlfriend, wife, young mother do! They might try to get even (by trying to out-do the girls in Spain and France, if they didn't have the Holy Ghost to lead and guide them). And the truth had not yet come to their tiny town. But HE was on the way!
Dad said "Mother didn't look like my sweet Mother with this sudden change. So he craweled under the house in the space where their potatoes, onions, etc, were stored, and cried!

Falla39

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"I had some of those same thoughts about the situation, Margie.
I can't imagine dropping contact with my Mother just because of her
supposed "legalistic tendencies"? At least that's what I gathered as his
reasoning for leaving her alone?? good heavens"

Well, but that discounts the power a mother has over a son,
and if the mother is getting pneumonia, I'd say that he may be justified
in staying away. This might seem harsh, but it is often the kindest way
for the son to honor their parent. But then, pneumonia is a sign to me,
like the one shoe off thing. Double-check this, but I think that is a sign of
"unprepared to go."

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And I'm pretty sure pneumonia is
"you are not taking care of yourself."

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I'm sorry....... I read thru this whole thread twice and I didn't see any mention of his mother having pneumonia?? Where'd you get that? Besides which, even if that is the case, the point is that from his MOTHER's point of view, she probably feels very abandoned by her own son. I don't care if she's not taking care of herself. If that IS the case, then he should be stepping in to get her help - not writing her off and walking away. That's not what you do with someone you love. But again - I don't know where you found the pneumonia reference. Help me with that, please?

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Pneumonia is post 1, middle of second actual paragraph.
What about when mom won't listen to anything you say,
and then demands that you go buy her a bottle?
I smell self-pity in her from here,
and kids don't naturally shy away from parents
for no reason, and then go post about it?

Re: This Week's Encounters with Legalism
 

Had some of the very same thoughts myself... seems to me that mom deserves the honor of just being mom... no matter the decisions. I don't remember anywhere where it says to honor your mother and father as long as they treat you right, make decisions that you agree with, or even get along with you..... by being mom she deserves honor. And to go into a public forum and rip her apart like that.... seems like the story could have been told without dishonoring her.... seems like the one wanting understanding, grace and understanding should be willing to provide it....

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Yur in my prayers, that's a tuff row to hoe,
especially with that generation. I'm doing
similar with my dad, who is also fairly convinced
of his own divinity...sitting there in that little room all alone,
sniping about...whatever. Of course, she can't hear you,
but you might direct her to "Codependent No More,"
Melody Beattie. peace.

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I know I'll get crucified for this... but I just can't see Jesus reacting the same way as you did.... and I certainly can't see him going on a very public internet forum to bad mouth someone needing a touch from him as bad as your mom does.... I would imagine his heart broken and burdened over the interaction.... reacting soft to harshness... but this post just exudes pride and disrespect for your mom... no matter what she does, says or how she acts.

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I don't mind looking like the bad guy. I won't go into details, those who know the situation agree I did the best thing.

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? We aren't exactly CNN here; best thing for her would be to read it prolly, anyway. I don't really understand this post, but I guess a lot of y'all are familiar with each other, each other's churches, etc? Who is Brothomas, anyway? About as anon as you can get, from up here anyway. But hey, if you know them, go talk to her? I'm with Bro, and let the dead bury the dead. Parents aren't supposed to vex their kids, either. The fact he cares enough to seek opinions declares his honor to me, and I've sen no names mentioned.

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His mom wouldn't be comfortable in the same room with Christ, I'm guessing. Quote the "bad mouth" part for me, again? No one should have to stand under a shower of pee, and you couldn't find his mom with an electric-mom-finder, I bet, so...?

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Oh--TV1A. Whatever. You are right to run from that yack.

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Like others I also found the part about not having contact with the mom over "legalism" strange but I am giving televsion one alpha the benefit of the doubt and will assume there is more to the dynamic than we know.

I do detect a lot of undercurrent here. Particuarly in Television's angst over mom not accepting his prayers. While I agree she is wrong for not wanting them I would never be pushy about praying for someone. It seemed to be very important to TV that she let him or want him to do this. In a normal relationship I could see that but in this case where they are estranged by his own account I don't get it.

I couldnt' help but wonder if televisiononealpha didn't have a fantasy of him praying for mom, her feeling a supernatural touch from God, and that causing her to change her mind about his status with God.

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Not really seeing you as the bad guy...its a natural thing for there to be some difficulty with a parent seeing their child as an adult and treating them as such in some instances.Its easy for us to jump on you and say what you should do or what we would have done....the fact is that we aren't you and we haven't walked your circumstances.Ive watched my mother who is over 50 weep because HER mother still treats her like a child and never let her grow up and doesn't respect her decisions.Honoring your father and mother doesn't mean that you agree on everything or that you have to be in lockstep and if you stray from that lockstep you are somehow in the wrong.Sometimes to proporly honor them and avoid conflict you have to have a little distance in the relationship.

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I don't know these people from Adam... names don't have to be mentioned for him to disrespect her position as mother in his life... her nastiness, vileness, even abusiveness does not negate the direction of Scripture to honor her..... to turn the other cheek.... to bless those who curse you.... to pray for those that despitefully use you..... all of those are in our Manual for code of conduct, and those principles stand no matter what the back story is, and no matter if we know the parties personally or not. It's the Word.

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Well, but trashing her? Where is that? I'm pretty sensitive to that stuff, being a Codependent myself, and certainly would have no prob ripping TV if I detected any unforgiveness, which I am not.

As equally abusive as not recognizing your child has reached adulthood
is expecting your kid to be your parent, but being unwilling to follow their advice. I will say I'm detecting that you just have a good relationship with parents that are not codependent, and so this will not track for you. I envy you this.

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Good grief, we don't know the family dynamics of this situation. So it isn't easy to comment. But, I will say this, I hope you aren't projecting your feelings on others, TV1a. Just because someone doesn't react the way we hope they will, doesn't mean they don't need us.

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Please, she's in self-destruct mode.
She has pneumonia, for crying out loud.
She needs professional help, which I'm
guessing she won't listen to.

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I mean that's gotta be a pretty harsh and hurtful feeling when your mom sees you as not only n ot right in her eyes but also not right in Gods eyes.I would have a strong desire to try to reconcile but get weary of the arguing and fighting so I would feel like withdrawing a bit as well.

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Lacey I don't think its a situation of he doesn't want to help her...I think its a situation of that he knows she would reject it.

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The Poster states in the original post..... "My mother is the classic legalist. She knows her standards better than she knows her Bible." Whether that be true or not, doesn't matter. Because it is the poster's mother, a much higher level of respect is deserved than that level of trashing.. NO MATTER WHAT MOM HAS DONE.

There is no exhorting, helpful, or praise worthy outcome that is reached by adding sentences like that into the narrative... all it does is tear the woman down... and no matter what she's done, that's not Biblical to do so.

Furthermore, the poster gives details to that the mom contacts a sister hours away instead of the poster.... again, taking the image of mom down so that the poster's image is raised some.

It's just not appropriate according to the direction of Scripture in how we not only talk/treat our parents, but anyone that we might have ought with. The Scriptures teach us to provide grace back for those that don't even deserve it.... this was just someone venting about how wronged they felt they had been... and someone tell me how that in any way helps in lifting up Jesus????