Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Just what exactly is THE knowledge of good and evil? I know that it's the ability to tell the difference. We wouldn't have had the difference without the rules (commandments) What I'm asking is--what is the knowledge? Was it that we have the ability to lie? In the garden of Eden we would only have known good and the truth. How did we know what was evil until God gave us the rules and told us what evil was? The only evil that we would have been aware of was that we were to be obedient to God. The was the only rule. When we ate of the tree of knowledge, what was the knowledge we gained? Did we learn that not only can we make our own decisions but we can lie--God cannot lie, he can only tell the truth.
When we were in the garden of Eden and God walked among us--was this heaven? Did we get ejected from heaven? Are we fallen angels? Is this why the devil thinks he has a right to us? Are we the fallen angels--the one-third of heaven that fell? Did God wipe our memories and then remake us into something less than the angels we were?

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

I think that this describes our
development of a forebrain, stated
in terms so as not to offend "creationists,"
(meaning so as not to remove a perceived dichotomy)
who seem to deny God in any work not
miraculous or instantaneous.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

We are not angels nor were we in the Pleasant Garden save in the loins of the the seminal man, ADAM [man].

The Knowledge of Good and Evil fell upon the consciouseness of humanity's parents when partaking of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.


Ge 3:5-7

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

This subject as with a multitude of other subjects finds no universal consensus. One Christian scholar [deceased] has posited the parents detected a bodily change in their constitution upon the ingesting of the forbidden fruit. After all, it had been stated that upon the eating of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil would be the day they should begin their journey into dissolution and eventually, death of the body.

Would not a perfect specimen of full and robust health acknowledge a change in bodily condition, heretofore unknown to them? It would seem so. It has been said that perfect health cannot "feel" the body which explains the pleasure of the drug induced euphoric state of being. The desire to escape "self."

Also there is the moral and the spiritual essence of disobedience but that would require an acceptance of foregone admission of disobedience. The will to rebel against the commandment of God in the matter of the the eating of the fruit of the prohibited tree necessarily demands a "free will" in this particular case. Something once lost can never be recovered. The original parents could not recover their original condition before the Sovereign of the Universe having been denied access to the Tree of Life. Only a slow decline of mind and matter awaited them. Cast out of the garden into the reality of sweat and pain of child bearing until the earth reclaimed them. 'Dust thou art and to dust shalt thou return.'

What is the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL?

Surely they had accurate knowledge of the GOOD.

Perfect health.
Uninterrupted fellowship with the Creator.
A future of endless life upon absolute obedience
The prospect of an extensive family
Access to the Tree of Life which was doubtlessly the panacea of all ills

But the knowledge of the EVIL now also was theirs to know and regret.

Pain in child bearing
Drudgery of work
Earning of bread by the sweat of the brow
Fear and trembling on every side as beset Israel with their many enemies
Non interuppted access to the Creator, sin blocked that continual access
Finally, Paradise Lost. Death of the entity, the grave and sorrow.

The knowledge of EVIL is all that beset the seminal parents AND their many billions of progeny even to this present hour. The ever present knowledge and fear of the death of the body. The rending of the spirit from the tabernacle in which the spirit resides. Every hour one lives speaks of that eventually moment in which that knowledge will over take us. Only those who are alive and remain unto the PAROUSIA of King Yeshua will not see death.

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

some would say knowledge of good and evil will come into play this fall ,i cant disagree :)

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Amen.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

I think the knowledge of good and evil is the knowledge of DO'S AND DON'TS.

It is seeking to know all that is good in order to do good in our fleshly power, and seeking to know all that is evil in order to avoid it in our fleshly power. IT IS ESSENTIALLY LAW KEEPING.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

You took the words out of my mouth.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Is that a bad thing?

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Yep!

And the "Tree of Life" is what we get in Jesus. Basically, I'd say that the two trees in the garden were a foreshadow of the OLD and NEW covenants.

One is trying to figure out good and bad (Rom 7)
The other is just plainly having the LIFE of God (Rom 8)

Btw, nice to see you posting again Bro Blume...

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Is all the "religion" in the world a bad thing? That is the basically what all the religions espouse, knowledge of good and evil.

It does not work, put it that way.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

It doesn't always work, you mean? IMO, it quite often does work, to have a list of "dos and don'ts" and follow them as well as you can. You will often succeed, not always, but you can do a pretty good job of it. You have probably never murdered anyone, for example. Did you avoid killing by your own will, or was that only possible with God's help? If it's the latter, how do you explain the vast majority of unbelievers who are not murderers?

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Because it works sometimes it is very deceptive. I actually believe this is the entire problem with our lives. WE TRY. In fact, the harder we try the worse we fail.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

That's incorrect. (IMO!)

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Impossible, brother Blume. BEFORE they ate the forbidden fruit, God gave them some DO's and DON'Ts - DO tend the garden, DON'T EAT THAT FRUIT.

They already HAD 'law' - ie commandments to obey.

Otherwise, they could not have SINNED in eating the forbidden fruit, because sin is TRANSGRESSION OF LAW.

Perhaps the knowledge of good and evil meant more along the lines of a 'studied knowledge of good and evil'. We are told to be as babes in regard to evil, but wise in love, grace, faith, etc.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

One is not 'trying to figure out good and bad', but instead (if your analogy is correct) trying to LIVE BASED ON A KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT TO DO AND NOT TO DO. Key term - 'trying to LIVE'. Life does not come from a knowledge of good and evil (which is spelled out by the Law of God), but by Christ (and His sacrifice on the cross) which imputes righteousness to us.

The difference between 'law and faith' or 'law and grace' is not one of keeping God's commands (DO's and DON'Ts) vs not keeping god's commands but one of 'where does righteousness come from? MY righteousness based upon my obedience to God's commands? Or does it come from GOD'S MERCY and power working in me to fulfill the righteousness of the law'? (Romans 6-8).

Just thinking out loud here.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

I t is do's and dont's for the purpose of becoming RIGHTEOUS. Adam was already righteous when God gave him that single rule. I should have clarified that.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

By my experience it is not, in my opinion. :) Think of a struggle and weak area in your life and how forcing yourself to not do it only worsens it. We all got 'em.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

I've always wondered why Satan didn't ask Eve to eat out of the other tree, the Tree of Life.... he must have known that tree holds the key to eternal life... How did he know which tree to get Eve to eat the fruit out of? He must already have known the do's and don'ts too.... otherwise either tree that they were forbidden to eat, he could have asked Eve to eat out of either one of them. But he chose the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to decieve Eve with...

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Nope. Doesn't work that way. It's the opposite. The less I try to be good, the worse it gets.

IMO. ;)

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

It's not that we DO NOTHING, but find our proper place with God in the equation to do what we need to do and allow Him to do what only He can do and thereby LIVE BY LIFE, not knowledge of good and evil.

For instance, we YIELD TO HIM to empower us and not merely expect Him to do so without our volition. And we PRAY and he HELPETH our infirmities. The greek term for HELPETH implies we do something and He assists us. The error is US trying independently of God's Spirit.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Your post to me outlines what the trees actually were; or rather, what they prolly were not. Satan might not direct Eve to the "tree of life," since his goal is death, but A&E should have been running to it, after transgressing? If it were just a physical tree. So I think satan had no choice--he could not lead Eve to the tree of life; and God knew he would lead them to the "tree of knowledge," an obvious euphemism, imo.

Re: Knowledge of Good and Evil?
 

Psalms 49:20
Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.

Prov. !:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 3:19-20 KJV
19 The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.

Isaiah 11:1,2,3
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

Isaiah 35:5
Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

Isaiah 42:7
To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

WHEN WAS THIS FULFILLED!!

Luke 4: 17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Luke 24:45 KJV
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Romans1:28-32
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Wisdom, knowledge and understanding, etc comes from GOD. When were these things going to happen!

Isaiah 35:5
Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

Isaiah 42:7
To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

WHEN THE SEED (JESUS CHRIST) CAME IN FLESH, AND THE ACCEPTABLE DAY OF THE LORD CAME. IT WAS FULFILLED.

THE BITTER TREE OF GOOD & EVIL COULD ONLY BE MADE SWEET BY THE COMING AND RECEIVING OF THE TREE OF LIFE, JESUS CHRIST.

Falla39