BG And The HGB
 

By “BG and the HGB” I mean “Billy Graham and the Holy Ghost Baptism.”

By “Holy Ghost” I mean “Holy Spirit.” Some of us call Him the Holy Ghost and some of us call Him the Holy Spirit. The two terms are used interchangeably among Christians. Our English language is made up from many sources but principally it comes from German or Saxon and French which were both spoken in England and developed into the English language. The French word “espirit” and the Latin word “spiritus” became the English word “spirit” and the German word “geist” became the English word “gast” and later became “ghost” so we have those two words in our language which mean the same thing. Some prefer to use the term “Holy Ghost” and some prefer to use the term “Holy Spirit.”

I had a preacher tell me one time that a ghost is a departed spirit and after Jesus departed He sent us His spirit/ghost so we should use the term Holy Ghost instead of Holy Spirit.

Billy Graham is a very respected person and religious leader. These are some comments by him about the Holy Spirit Baptism:



This is from page 16 of the February 1962 issue of Voice Magazine published by the FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship International). It is my understanding that it is from a message delivered before a group of ministers at Sacramento, CA.

Be Baptized With The Holy Spirit
by Billy Graham

We have learned much about the power of the Holy Spirit. You know, in the main denominations, we have looked a bit askance at our brethren from the Pentecostal churches because of their emphasis on the Holy Spirit.

I wonder if one of the secrets of Pentecostalism cannot be learned by our main stream churches by placing emphasis on the Holy Spirit. I am sure that my Pentecostal brethren that are here today would agree with me that there have been extremes and excesses that have embarrassed many of them at times, but I want to tell you I believe the time has come to give the Holy Spirit His rightful place in our preaching, in our teaching, and in our churches! We need to go back and study again what Paul meant when he said, "Be filled with the Spirit.” We need to learn once again what it means to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit. I know that we can rationalize, and immediately ten thousand theological questions arise and we try to figure it all out; but brethren, I want to tell you that we need to accept, we need to get something! Give it any terminology you want, but we do not have the same dynamic and the same power the Early Church had.

They had no Bibles, no seminaries nor Bible schools, no radios, no telephones, no printing presses, nothing! However, they turned the world upside down in one generation! What did they have? They had an experience with the living Christ! They had the filling of the Holy Spirit!

Look what we should be doing with our churches and seminaries, and all the other factitious that we have.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

And that is a very good question. Why aren't we?

As I drove along a well-traveled city street today, I looked to my left and saw a Methodist food pantry parking lot all covered up with vehicles. It wasn't even opened yet and people were lined up waiting at the door.

I see Catholic, Baptist, Methodist etc charities and food pantries...but I see NO Oneness Pentecostal outreach ministries in this region.

There is such a need and OPs have such a great opportunity to teach gospel of Christ and give to them with love, the things they need.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

Looks like he was on to something here!! And these are words that are still needed to be heard today!!!!

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Agreed wholeheartedly!!

My husband growing up lived in desperate poverty but his mother attended a wealthy OP church of one of the strictest in dress code, attendance and so on. When they needed food or help with bills, or glasses, it was not their church they went to for help, but to the Salvation Army. If it hadn't been for the Salvation Army, they wouldn't have had the necessary things they needed to live many times, and people in the church could care less to lend a hand, a dollar, or even prayers.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

My experience in OP churches is that it it widely believed that if you are 'living right' you will be 'blessed' and that blessing will be in the form of finances and health. Of course the other side of that coin is that if you are poor or sick there must be some sin in your life that is the cause. And that, I believe is why many OP churches lack not only outreach ministry but also any internal programs to help the struggling except in the most temporary way i.e. bringing food after a death or surgery.

I've yet to find the verse in the bible that guarantees those who love God will always be blessed materially and believe that one can love God with heart, mind and strength and still be financially poor or sick. Moreover I believe that many times what those who have been blessed in these areas do for those who haven't says a lot more about us than them. IOW it's a test.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

So I was going to lave it alone but since MTD mentioned it below... Do you realize Sam that BG no longer believes you need Jesus for salvation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

Re: BG And The HGB
 

As to Billy Graham I guess he never perservered with the revelation he was given. Since he rejected more light he wound up teaching you dont even need Jesus to be saved.

As to OP Churches they are in my experience not trained for fellowship or outreach. They are trained to attend Church and listen to sermons. Now of course they are not all 100% that way just speaking from the most of my experience.

Its a shame because they do have some great truth to share.

That's not what he said.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

Really Houston?

"They don't even know the name of Jesus... I believe they will be saved" BG

Seems in direct contrast to:

"There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

No?

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I've listened to this before and again today. To me it appears that what Billy Graham is saying is the same thing I was taught at the Apostolic Bible Institute back in 1956/1957. This is some times called "The Light Doctrine" and some times called "Three classes in Heaven." It was taught by Ken Haney's father at the Bible college in Stockton, by Bro. Norris at ABI, by F.E. Curts (Ohio Dist. Supt. and Bible Teacher), and by Bishop G.T. Haywood.

As presented by these men those who have called out or reached out to God in their hearts but have not heard, or maybe heard but not understood the Gospel sufficiently to accept or reject it, will be among all those raised at the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5-15; Matthew 25:31-46)

This is what G.T. Haywood said about the second resurrection:

The Second Resurrection.
According to the inspired word of God the resurrection of the
"blessed and Holy" is completed a thousand years before the second
resurrection. It is from this point that we are obliged to note the
difference between partakers of the two resurrections.

After the thousand years expire "the rest of the dead" (those who
did not come forth in the first resurrection) both righteous and
wicked, live again and are made to stand before God. It is then that
Jesus separates them as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goat
according to Matt. 25:31-46.

In this resurrection is included all the righteous men of all
ages who walked in all the light that they were given. It is my candid
opinion that all heathen, Israelites, Christian professors who have
never heard the true gospel of Christ and those who die during
the millennium, walking in the light of their times will be given
eternal life at the last resurrection.

Many righteous people have died without the Holy Ghost and
the question has been asked: "Where will they come in?" They shall be
given eternal life in the last day. They shall inherit the New
Earth where life eternal reigns because "there shall be no more death.
If we desire to take part in the first resurrection we must be
filled with the same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. It
is the church of the First-born that takes part in the first
resurrection. To enter into that Church, which is his body, we must be
baptized into it by both water and the Spirit. (See John 3:5; Rom.
6:3-5; 1 Cor. 12:12, 13; Gal. 3:26-28.

The time for the first resurrection is at hand. Are you
preparing to meet the Bridegroom? You must get oil within your vessels
and have your lamps trimmed and burning. Soon shall we hear the
midnight cry - "BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH."
------------------


Bro. S.G. Norris taught what is some times called "holy, righteous, and wicked." The "holy" are those who have obeyed Acts 2:38 since Pentecost; plus the Old Testament prophets who had the Holy Spirit in their lives; plus the children of at least one parent who had obeyed Acts 2:38 according to 1 Corinthians 7:14; plus those who were martyred in the tribulation. These were all in the first resurrection. Then, at the second resurrection, all who had walked in all the light they had received eternal life at the Great White Throne judgment (second resurrection) and went into the new earth.
---------------------------------

A while back I read a book titled "Prophetic Research, The Study of Eschatology" by Clyde Haney. Actually Than Haney (Clyde's grandson and Ken's son) published the book from Clyde Haney's notes. On pages 53 and 54 in his comments on The Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20:11-14
“The dead, small and great’ --while there are no born again folks raised here, yet we doubt that all all who are raised are cast into hell. Here is the answer to the question asked by many, “What will God do about those who did not have the gospel, but walked in all the light they had?”...some who come up for judgment here will not be cast into the lake of fire....It is evident that these resurrection Scriptures refer not to the Rapture, but the final resurrection; also that the two orders, just and unjust, come up when all in the graves are summoned. Thus the White Throne Judgment will be a great event covering a longer period of time than generally realized. But while the just will be judged, the church, the Holy Order, will not be judged there. The Bible teaches three orders -- the just, the righteous, and the holy. The Bride is the Holy Order. Then cometh the end....
-----------------------

So, what Billy Graham was saying on the tv program is what has been taught in UPC Bible Schools and what is believed by many OP teachers and preachers.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

The Apostolic church I attended for 24 years has a clothing and food pantry spanning many, many years.

The church I attend now also has a thriving clothing and food pantry.

OPs giving and ministering...who woulda thought?

Re: BG And The HGB
 

Good. I remember years ago when my father-in-law was driving a Sunday School Bus and a woman and her children came to church. They were very poor. The woman was wearing men's shirts. They needed food and clothing. My father-in-law talked to some of the men in the Men's Sunday School class (all men 36 and up were in that class). He got responses like "This ain't the Salvation Army" and "God will provide for them if they get saved and do right" etc. That really bothered him.

In Galatians chapters 1 and 2 where Paul defends his ministry and message and talks about interacting with the Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem he assures his readers that what he preached agreed with the HQ church. He also mentioned that the HQ church stressed that he "remember the poor" which he said he did in his ministry.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

Did Billy Graham ever speak in tongues? Just wondering... Because a lot of Baptists have been filled with the spirit.

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Seems to me that several years ago I read a quote by Billy Graham that said that he had never spoken with tongues but some of his friends/associates/etc had but I have never been able to find that quote.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

To the best of my knowledge, Billy Graham has never spoken in tongues. He has never felt that it was ever actually necessary in any regard. He was never as adamantly opposed to it as others of his generation were.

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So there goes all that "All trinitarians are going to hell" and "If they got baptized any way but in the name of Jeezzsus... all they got was WET!" preaching by the UPC, right down the drain... Whoosh (that was the flush).

Now how do we get them to stop saying it over pentecostal pulpits everywhere?

The thing I find most disconcerting about the org is that they do not even agree with themselves.

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Re: BG And The HGB
 

I am not going to open that can. Another will do so for me. However, I have not and will not change my position on this topic.

Re: BG And The HGB
 

This is from pages 54-60 of the May 2007 issue of Charisma Magazine. I thought it was interesting because it tells us about a member of the Billy Graham family that we never hear anything about. I think it’s also interesting to hear how the Holy Spirit has worked in his life and the changes that have been made.

Surprised by the Spirit
By Sandra Chambers

Ned Graham, the youngest son of evangelist Billy Graham, discovered a new direction for his ministry when he was filled with the Holy Spirit’s power.

Hues of yellow, orange and red cast a soft blanket of color across the mountaintops behind the log home where Nelson Edman "Ned" Graham grew up as the youngest child of the Rev. Billy and Ruth Graham. Having returned to the family home in Montreat, North Carolina, where he makes periodic visits to oversee the care of his aging parents, Ned has many happy childhood memories of growing up on this mountain.

"I'm definitely at home in the mountains," he admits. "There's a perspective of depth and contrast the mountains offer, as well as a sense of permanence and beauty."

And like the mountains he loves, Ned has been marked by a few deep crevices and dark hollows. Emotional and spiritual forces shaped them, but through God's mercy and deliverance he has escaped their lingering shadows of despair, depression, addiction and demonic oppression. He has emerged with a new understanding of the Holy Spirit and God's love. Being the youngest of his four siblings by six years, Ned says that in some ways he was like an only child.

“Because my brothers and sisters were all older and my sisters got married at an early age, I got to spend more one-on-one time with my parents,” he says. “Growing up, my dad and I always had a very special bond. Dad always hugged me and told me he loved me no matter what. Even when I felt like a failure, he told me how proud he was of me.”

Ned says one of his fondest memories of early childhood was going back to his father’s bedroom, knocking on the door and peeking in to find him on the telephone with some important person, such as the president.

“He’d say, ‘Just a moment, Lyndon,’ put the phone on his chest, and then motion for me to come in,” Ned recalls. ”To me, that said I was more important than the president of the United States! I’d crawl up on his bed, content just to lie there with my head on his chest.”

“Ned will never admit it, but he’s my mother’s favorite child,” insists Anne Graham Lotz, one of Ned’s three sisters. “Mother just doted on him. He was the center of her life --after Daddy, of course-- and I think it’s God’s blessing that Ned would be the one to come back and look after them.”

Ned and Anne both say that when they were growing up there was no sibling rivalry among the five Graham children --Virginia “Gigi” Graham Tchividjian, 61, author and speaker; Anne Graham Lotz, 58, founder of AnGeL Ministries; Ruth “Bunny” Graham McIntyre, 56, author and speaker; William Franklin Graham III, 54, president and CEO of both the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and Samaritan’s Purse; and Ned, 49, president of East Gates International.

Like his brother, Franklin, Ned suffered through tumultuous teen years, displaying his rebellion through a love for fast cars, drinking and girls. But unlike Franklin, who abandoned his rebellion early, Ned struggled for 30 years with his before he came face to face with the issues that had contributed to it.

Darkness Invades
“When I was a little boy, I had a very pure, unadulterated relationship with God,” Ned says. “But when I was 11 and 12 years old, I experienced two childhood sexual-abuse traumas that opened the door for demonic affliction.”

He suspected in his mid-20’s that he was demonically afflicted, but he chose not to deal with it because he didn’t know enough about it. He was also too ashamed to bring it to the attention of anyone in the evangelical community.

Ned says he doesn’t believe he was demonically possessed from the trauma because Jesus still lived in his soul. “There was a dissonance in my life between what I refer to as ‘Big Ned,’ who was demonically oppressed, and ‘Little Ned,’ who was still very spiritually sharp,” he explains.

“When someone is demonically afflicted it doesn’t mean they are spiritually incapacitated,” he stresses. “I believe there are many good Christians today serving in churches, and even in leadership positions, who are demonically afflicted. All you have to do is look at the pornographic and sexual addiction rate among pastors and the substance-abuse statistics of Christian leaders to see it.”

Though Ned’s family didn’t know the source of his pain, it was obvious to them that he was struggling spiritually.

“I remember watching him as a little boy,” Anne says. “He was very precious and angelic, but as I watched him grow into his teens he became very selfish and manipulative. ...There was not that love or surrender to the Lord.”

After high school, Ned entered Judson College in Elgin, Illinois. He stayed there one year, and then took a year off to teach rock climbing and outdoor survival skills in western North Carolina. During a climb, he fell and suffered serious injuries. He was taken to Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, where he met his first wife.

“I was 20, and she was 26,” Ned says. “At the time I was very rebellious and into marijuana and alcohol, and I naively thought that I knew what love was and that it would take care of everything.”

After recovering from his injuries, Ned attended the University of Minnesota as a pre-med student but later transferred to Pacific Lutheran University in Seattle, where he graduated in 1986 with a degree in communications.

After graduation, he entered Fuller Theological Seminary and earned a master’s degree in theology. While studying at Fuller, he took a position as an intern of adult ministries at Bible Baptist Church. This led to a pastorate, where he served for six years before God called him in 1992 to establish East Gates International.


to be continued in part 2

Re: BG And The HGB
 

continued from part 1

When his first wife filed for divorce in 1998 after 20 years of marriage, Ned says he pushed past the pain. “I’m a rock climber and a mountaineer, and I’d always pushed past pain in my live through sheer strength and willpower.”

Among those who were a support to Ned during his divorce was Christina “Tina” Kuo, who had joined the East Gates International staff a year before as director of training. “Christina had a great heart for China, and she became a great fit with our indigenous Chinese team. We became very good friends as we traveled with our team throughout China.”

Back home, Ned says he would often take his two sons, Alex and Sam (then 13 and 10), and his dog, Pugsley, into the East Gates office with him. “Sam and Pugsley would somehow always end up in Christina’s office,” he says, “One day Sam asked me, ‘Dad, if you ever decide to remarry, would you ever consider Tina?’

“That was the last thing on my mind at the time, but I ended up falling in love with her and even traveled back home to North Carolina to seek my mother’s counsel. Mom said: ‘Ned, if you love her ... follow your heart. Just make sure your heart is following God’s.’”

In February 2001, Sam’s request was fulfilled and Ned and Tina were married by his father in his parent’s Montreat home. One year later, at his father’s request, Ned and Tina returned to the North Carolina mountains to care for Ned’s mother, who was hospitalized and said to be dying.

Having worked as a certified nursing assistant throughout his educational pursuits, Ned was well-qualified to assist in the physical care of his mother. What he wasn’t prepared for was the spiritual warfare taking place on the mountain. “When you think about it, Satan would love nothing better than to attack Billy Graham and his family, as evidenced by his attack on me very early in life.”

Although Ned dedicated himself to caring for his mom during the two years he was at Montreat, he says he was still struggling with his own physical and spiritual issues. “I had torn my thigh muscle playing tennis, and I remember Anne telling me I was like Jacob wrestling with God.”

When Ned and Tina returned to Seattle in 2004, Ned’s depression deepened. “I came to a point where I gave up on everything,” he says. “I stopped caring. I no longer feared death or life. I no longer feared failure or success. It was at that point that God could interact with me.”

Although Ned knew nothing about deliverance, he agreed to see a well-known deliverance minister after a friend suggested it. The attempt to free him from his demonic affliction failed, Ned says, and caused even more damage to his psyche.

Tina says she didn’t feel comfortable with the idea in the first place, “And things got much worse, afterwards,” she says. “When you stimulate the dark side in a person and don’t resolve it, it worsens.”

Anne recalls, “I was in Seattle around this time doing a Just Give Me Jesus conference. When I saw Ned, he was barely hanging in there. I thought he was having a complete inner breakdown, emotionally, spiritually and mentally. It was very scary.”

Deliverance and Freedom
Through Tina’s urging, Ned began meeting with inner-healing minister Rita Bennett, who led him through about 15 sessions of soul-healing prayer. Ned says he let go of bitterness, anger and resentment, and allowed Jesus to bring healing.

Then one morning he knew the time had come for him to be fully delivered. He called two friends, who had been present during his healing sessions with Bennett, and arranged to meet them at a church. While traveling the freeway to meet the men, he had to pull over to vomit several times, almost wrecking his car.

“The deliverance was difficult because what affected me since childhood was extremely powerful and there was an apparent hierarchy [of demons],” he says. But several hours later, he says he was laughing and giggling and praising God. “I was a totally different man,” he confesses.

Ned says he was also immediately delivered from the addictions that had plagued him for years, as well as some long-term health problems. Anne say she immediately sensed the change when he called to tell her of his deliverance.

“His voice was calm and strong and clear,” she recalls. “And when I next saw him, I knew I had seen a miracle. Everything that he was as that sweet little boy was shining through with maturity, character, grace and strength.”

At the time, Tina was on a trip to China, so Ned spent the next several weeks alone, reading God’s Word and studying about the Holy Spirit and spiritual warfare. About the third week into his study, he says he was praying when God suddenly gave him a prayer language that has strengthened him in his prayer life.

“Ned now has a straight pipeline to the Lord,” Tina says, “and he listens a lot more. When he was tormented, it was too painful to listen to the Lord. Now when he faces challenges he doesn’t try to escape them. He hunkers down, gets into the Word, and uses his prayer language,” a gift which Tina says she has also received.

“My parents couldn’t help but notice the positive changes in me,” Ned adds. “My mother totally understands what I’ve been through.” When asked about the changes she has seen in her son, Ruth Graham told Charisma: “Ned has been so much more thoughtful and attentive, and he exhibits more of the Spirit of God.”

Although Ned describes this period of his spiritual journey as “coming out of evangelicalism and recognizing and accepting the power of the Holy Spirit,” he told Charisma he does not call himself a “charismatic Christian”; rather, he sees himself as “a simple follower of Jesus.”

Ephesians 3:14-4:16 tells us that the gifts are to be used to glorify God, build up the body of Christ, and to unite us, not to separate or draw distinctions between us,” Ned says. “God did not create denominations. Man did.”

Reflecting on how God has worked in his life, Ned stresses that there are no cookie-cutter relationships with God. “Each person’s relationship with God is unique. I know, because Jesus and the Holy Spirit have uniquely worked in my heart and soul to heal and weld together the little boy that I was into the man that I am now, and into the man that I’m still becoming.”

Sandra K. Chambers is a freelance writer and frequent contributor to Charisma. She lives in Wilmington, North Carolina.