Visions
 

What if you had a vision where God told you to do something that you knew was wrong?

Re: Visions
 

Example?

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Well, He hasn't done that to me.
If I felt like God was telling me to do something that I thought or knew was wrong, I would figure that it was not God speaking but either my self or satan. If the voice persisted, I would question my opinion of what is right and wrong and I would question my sanity.

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Again, you mean? God would never do a thing like that again? (Acts 10. :D)

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Also, a Messianic believer named Ananias faced that problem in Acts 9:10-18

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God cleared that up before Acts 10.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

(Acts 9:15)

He even cleared that up with Peter before he went to see Cornelius.

Re: Visions
 

AYR,

Infact, he had already cleared that up since Acts 2.

Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Peter just had not caught the full revelation of what God was doing even though he (Peter) had spoken by inspiration.

Re: Visions
 

Jesus had already taught that the old food laws were no longer obligatory as recorded in Mark 7:18-23

18 He replied to them, “So you too are without understanding? Don’t you see that nothing going into a person from outside can make him unclean? 19 For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and it passes out into the latrine.” (Thus he declared all foods ritually clean.) 20 “It is what comes out of a person,” he went on, “that makes him unclean. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come forth wicked thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, indecency, envy, slander, arrogance, foolishness…. 23 All these wicked things come from within, and they make a person unclean.” CJB

The way I understand this verse, the words that are shown in parentheses in the CJB are Mark's comment on what Jesus said. In the Thompson KJV those words are in red as if Jesus said them. There are differences of opinion among those who translate/edit/provide different versions as to whether that phrase is part of Jesus' words or a comment by the author of that Gospel.

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Let's see who can go back the farthest in the NT to clear it up. :D

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Ok Timmy....you were saying? :heeheehee

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Exactly. So, does everyone here believe that God will not again change His mind about what He requires of people?

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:)

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Sam, I don't see that "comment" in the KJV
Mark 7
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Re: Visions
 

In context, the pharisees were accusing Jesus and his disciples of eating without washing their hands prior to eating.

Mark 7
1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

See what Jesus said:

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus' rebuke was AGAINST the tradition of men being UPHELD as the commandment of God.

That is the context of that scripture.

Re: Visions
 

The words I bolded in your quote are what I was speaking of. My Thompson KJV Bible shows them in red as if they are part of the words of Jesus.

In Bible Gateway those words are included in quotation marks in the NKJV as part of the words of Jesus.

In the Amplified Bible, the NIV, and the NLT these words are included in parentheses as a comment by the author of the Gospel of Mark like the quote I gave from the CJB.

Re: Visions
 

I don't know that it is God changing His mind.
Under the dispensation of Law, certain foods were forbidden.
Since we are under grace, we no longer have to comply with the old Law.

Re: Visions
 

As per God changing his mind, God did not change his mind. Under the old covenant, there were specific foods that were unclean for JEWS to eat.
The UNCLEAN FOODs were still unclean until the new covenant was enacted.

God did not change his mind. The gospel of Christ had always been the original intent of God. He enacted the law as a placeholder until the time when his original intent would be manifested.

Gal 3
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Notice that Paul is telling us that God already spoke about the gospel to Abraham (in thy "seed" that is Christ) even before the law was given.

Continuing...

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Paul is showing us God's original intent was to save man through the gospel of Christ Jesus and God had already preached to Abraham this gospel. (The law coming 430 years after CANNOT DISANNUL the promise that was already given)

Continuing...
Gal 3
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Paul is telling us "why was the law given then since it cannot disannul the promise already made to Abraham?"
And he gives the answer right there: "till the seed should come to whom the promise was made"

The law was a placeholder until the time of reformation

Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

So we see that God did not change his mind.
In fact way back in Gen 3:15, he had spoken of the seed to come.

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As for the rules about eating unclean animals, is it your opinion that they were merely traditions of men, and not (originally) commandments of God?

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It certainly could have been God's intention all along to forbid (Jews only) to eat unclean animals, and to remove that prohibition at just the right time. So if that isn't changing His mind, it is changing His requirements. So OK, let me reword my question:

Will God never again change His requirements of man?

Re: Visions
 

Those rules were originally the comandments of God. The traditions of men was what Jesus was rebuking.

I think this statement of yours also answer the above question...

Good question.

Well, let's see. What is God's present requirement of man? Faith. What was his past requirement? Faith (Heb 11 stresses this point)

Now, how that faith is EXPRESSED (perhaps, this is what you're getting at?) is what has changed over time.

Before the law, men like Abraham and Isaac EXPRESSED their faith in God by offering sacrifices (building altars). Enoch walked with God by faith.

Under the law, the EXPRESSION of faith was still through offering of sacrifices. In the NT, the EXPRESSION of faith is by believing in the perfect SACRIFICIAL LAMB of God.

So the requirement is still the same, that is FAITH, but the EXPRESSION has changed depending on what period of time God is dealing with man.

Now, could the EXPRESSION of faith change again (I'm guessing that would be your question?)

To answer this question, we have to know what purpose the EXPRESSION of faith served in the past and presently.

In God's law, the penalty for sin is death and God has by his own counsel and sovereignty determined that blood is required for the atonement of sins.

The EXPRESSION of faith (OT lambs and Jesus the Lamb of God) were a means by which man's sins were atoned for. So we have to get the point that the whole purpose for the requirement was for the atonement of sins.

Now,
Heb 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

This scriptures tells us that, yes, the old testament atoned for the sins of the people (also Lev 16), however, the people themselves did not receive a NEW CONSCIENCE.

So the difference between the WORK of the old covenant and the new covenant is that the new covenant goes beyond just atoning for sins. It CHANGES man's conscience.

So, if a man's conscience is changed from satan oriented to God oriented, then God's purpose is achieved.

Hence, this new covenant has served the purpose of RECONCILING man back to God.

Since man is reconciled back to God, the new covenant has done it all and there is no need to change the formula (ergo: EXPRESSION of Faith)

So,
God will not change his requirement: Faith
God will not change the EXPRESSION of faith: Believe in Jesus Christ
God will not change his purpose: To reconcile man back to God

I hope I was able to answer your question...

Re: Visions
 

I guess we will find out when our Creator decides. Until then... carry on according to God's requirements. :)

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You know Timmy, God prohibited certain animals because they just are not good for our health to eat it. Certain animals are scavengers. They eat anything. Swine carries parasites and when we consume them, all the sodium in the meat messes with our blood chemistry...ya know...like raises our blood pressure for one thing. We can eat certain birds...turkey, chicken, quail etc but when it comes to buzzards/vultures and such... they are scavengers and eat smashed animals or animals that "die of itself" from the ground. God knows such meat is not good for us to eat...that it harms our bodies.

We can still take those food laws and follow them to our benefit, if we choose. God gave them for our benefit, not to deny them from us just because He is God and wants to. That's not the way God is.

Cattle are grass grazers. Clean food here. God designed the cow to be clean and gave it to us to eat for nourishment. Lamb is clean too.

But man has decided to add gmo grain and grind up downer cows, cats, dogs, horses and whatever they can to increase the feed trough and force cattle to eat it by locking them in stalls with just that to eat. Then they add antibiotics to keep them from getting infection from the rotten carcasses they grind up and hormones to fatten them faster. Then they go to the slaughterhouse and to the butcher to cut up and shrink wrap it at the store...and we go and buy it for consumption not giving a thought as to all the harm we are doing to our bodies because we are not aware of what kind of process the meat we are eating has been put through.

All processed foods contain many chemicals and preservatives, sodium and such and we humans gobble it down without giving it much thought. Then when we get diseased, we wonder why? God has nothing to do with this. It isn't His fault we are gluttonous and stupid for putting everything we see into our mouths.

Certain meat have always been clean food to eat until mankind got greedy. The GMO corn has a pesticide spliced into the genes. If pesticide kills worms and other pests that normally feed off corn, what do people think it does in our bodies? Pesticides such as Roundup is meant to kill.

The healthcare industry tells us not to eat red meat because it causes clogged arteries. But they do not tell you why. The above is one reason why. Antibiotics cause human blood pH to become acidic. That in turn, causes ridges inside our arteries to make cholesterol stick. Cholesterol is needed for proper brain function and nerve function. It's not really a boogeyman. Under normal circumstances our bodies would clean it right out.

Added hormones to the body is never good. God gave us the right amount of hormones for our bodies to function the way He designed it to function. So we eat and drink (milk) added hormones from the cow that man decided to alter to benefit his profits.

So you see, God's intentions toward humanity has always been pure. He's tried to keep us from disease and death. But man has always been hard-headed.

I don't blame God for anything that happens here on earth. Maybe God "changes His mind" in order to find ways to keep us from destroying ourselves? Maybe God just loves us enough to do that?

Re: Visions
 

How will we know when He changes something? Oh, silly me. He will inspire someone to write it. :lol

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Is not God all-powerful?

He surely will let us know in a spectacular way. :)

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Inspiring a book is kinda spectacular, don't you think?

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Your insinuation that God capriciously changes His Mind to suit His Moods or something is complete yack. It is us who caused the "changes," akin to how you might treat a 2 year old diff from a teenager.

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Never said it was capricious. (Every few thousand years? Capricious? :toofunny) Asked if He might do it again. Think He will? Are we young adults now, perhaps?

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No.

I wrote a book and was told it was written fairly well ...for an amateur. But there was nothing spectacular about my inspiration.

Mankind is out to kill ourselves with our lifestyles. God is always trying to save us...which we do not deserve.

Mankind is always throwing God's love and concern back into his face. I wonder when God is going to say "ENOUGH"!

Re: Visions
 

"Never said it was capricious. (Every few thousand years? Capricious? ) Asked if He might do it again. Think He will? Are we young adults now, perhaps?"

Do what again? Send another Savior? And I have to pretty much agree with
all of AYR's words--see how satan is able to make perfectly healthy red meat, eggs--
um, I see "bananas, never eat them..."--into bad things, while millions of Frenchmen
eat a dozen eggs a day, and live to ripe old ages, laughing in your general direction.

BAM, continue sucking down your sterilized cow milk, and being scared
of butter, or Muslims. Quack.

"Are we young adults yet?"
The wheat grows with the tares,
leaving us with the dichotomy there, imo, so
the best answer is yes, and no?

Are you (2nd you) running from evil,
or voting for it? The Revelation is quite plain to me,
that things will change when believers refuse to participate
in the earthly kingdoms, and not before then.

"When will God say "ENOUGH?"
Never. Not gonna happen. A couple human near-extinctions,
with a few thousand year detour to illuminate the folly
of having an earthly "king," are absolutely no sweat to God.
Heaven does not change. God will not override our free will
and "make" things perfect here; that is the job of the
"Prepared Bride."

Until we are...prepared, to stand up non-violently,
to the death, for what is right--
--The kingdom of Heaven beside us--
nothing is going to change.

If you are scared of satan? and Armaggedon?
Get behind me.

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"Every few thousand years? Capricious?"

Ok, and this accepts the illusion of time,
which a first-year physics student has seen past?
Not interested in being...accused of dope smoking again,
or anything, but surely it isn't too hard to see that there is no
"time," to God.

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Bananas?

Tell me about that one.

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:blink

I was just wondering if God might change the requirements for humans again. Sheesh!

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Sigh.

OK, if "there is no 'time' to God", then how come He has completely different methods of saving us in the OT and in the NT? Try sacrificing a goat now, and it won't work. It did work 3000 years ago. (At least, according to typical Christian theology, which you don't have to agree with, if you don't want to. Of course. ;))

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I meant when God inspires someone to write a book, and it turns out exactly how He wants it do, and it's infallible. Isn't that spectacular?

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On the web? The little ad, "5 things to never eat."

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They have never changed yet. Be perfect. We'll get there, imo, 3 steps forward and 2 back, mostly.

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Um, "if" there is no time to God? "A thousand years is to God a single day," etc. Do you not grasp that the Law was given to show sin, and the need for Grace? To man. We did not do sacrifices for God's benefit, but to illuminate that sin=death, and blood must be shed.

Then, when it became obvious that we could not follow
10 really obviously good rules, the need for Grace becomes obvious;
but accepting Grace is much more difficult than offering sacrifice.
Yes, it "worked" 3000 years ago, but not like is commonly supposed.
Meanwhile, nothing has changed for God, and nothing will change
in that sense, ever, for Him; perfect is perfect.

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I suppose it would be time for some serious prayer!

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Who said 'there is no time to God'?

BTW, sacrificing a goat didn't work back then either, according to Hebrews.