Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I don't know if Liberal 3-steppers is the proper term.

However I find that a lot of people who don't believe in some of the stricter ultra-con standards also don't adhere to Acts 2:38/John 3:5 being the Plan of Salvation.

I would consider myself a liberal or moderate three stepper. I watch movies, wear shorts, go swimming in public, have a tv, play sports, etc. Probably because I grew up PAW and we were never taught those things were sin.:heeheehee

However I believe in practical holiness. I do not listen to secular music, curse, practice sin, etc I'm split on the women wearing pants issue, but I don't condemn anyone to Hell for it. I believe that one must repent of your sin, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and be filled with the Holy Ghost to be saved. Are there others like this? Especially ex-UPC?

I ask this because I am moving to an area where there are none of the PAW or PCAF churches I grew up in... and there are only UPC churches in the area. I don't know the specific standards because I haven't gotten a hold of the church yet to discuss that with their pastor BUT I don't know how they'll receive an OP like me that's strong on the doctrine, but will probably be keeping his TV... will be going to the movies every once and again... etc. I'm wondering how that will be received.:thumbsup

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I'm also a liberal 3 stepper.

I attend an awesome UPC church where you see the people who practice the full spectrum of "standards/non standards." Some come to church dressed like they were going to the average baptist church down the street, some come dressed UC.

I dress UC for church out of respect for those who hold those standards, but more mainstream for home and work.

I run in typical running clothes, and swim in a one piece, fairly modest bathing suit. otherwise I don't drink, smoke, gamble, flirt, or otherwise behave unseemly.

I have standards and convictions, they are just not old time UC standards.

Did i discuss it with my Pastor or anyone else? No.
I don't want to attend a trinny one stepper church, it doesn't feel like home to me.
But, I'm not running in a dress either.

My advice would be, to be respectful, but be yourself, and dont make it an issue.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Good advice Amanah.


There are UPC churches that have relaxed their strict standards. Maybe you will come upon one.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

You don't listen to secular music but you watch tv?

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I caught that too. TV and movies but no secular music. Seems a weird distinction.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Especially if one hangs around Randy, watching the Matrix blasting that 'hard thumping techno beat' lol!

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Sometimes it's how something makes you feel. I used to go to church with a woman who would NOT listen to Margaret Becker, something about the soulful way that Becker sings brought feelings back to her that were not Godly. I didn't get it, but for her Becker was out.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Typical of most PAW and PCAF churches. I guess that's strange for you all, but it was never strange for me at all. Just about every OP I know personally doesn't listen to secular music but watches TV and movies. I was brought up on the teaching that music was designed by God for worship and should be directly inspired by the Holy Ghost. Do I necessarily believe that music was ordained by God only for worship? No. However I believe music is inspired by God, and I only listen to music inspired by the Holy Ghost. That is aside from commercials and such. TV is entertainment, I believe it can be used for good and for evil... just like internet.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

It may be but it's far more common then you think.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Count me in. Acts 2:38 is the "full standard" of salvation. Beards are godly. Its not a sin for a woman to trim. Praise and worship music 90% the rest between folk and doo wop. We watch Walker Texas Ranger about once a week and a movie once in a while.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I don't watch A LOT of tv myself. I watch cop/detective shows and the weather channel mostly.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Trialedbyfire.... within our organization we have churches that run the full spectrum and get along wonderfully. There are those that are more conservative like myself in the Lifestyle Holiness issues, and some that look like a Church of God or Baptist church. But our doctrine is Acts 2:38 through and through.... and it works for us as an organization.... though, I wouldn't call any of us liberal, as in this part of the world among us, that would mean something totally different.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Hey...I must be liberal too....of course to some that is code for backslidden. Ditto on TV BUT I only watch ESPN, the History Channel and an occasional movie....TV is really a huge disappointment and I have too much to do generally, and wast more time flicking through the channels because I don't like most of what is on...

I also am a martial artist which in most cases is frowned upon...except for my pastor does not have an issue with it. I like a wide array of music, but the gold standard for me is Gospel - I do, however, enjoy some jazz and blues, and R & B...I play drums and piano, so I am a music nut and love to hear different styles...I am careful, however, of content and there are certainly songs which I will not listen to.

As much as the old guard of the UPC tries to keep all the distinctives, the organization is changing from the inside...it is slow, but it is happening. What i have noticed in the way of alarm is that ministers between the ages of 25 - 45 are either staying and going more liberal, or they are leaving the organization all together...at least here in MD and DE - I can't speak for other parts of the country, obviously.

I will probably get blasted for that last remark...I am not saying that in an effort to defame or be negative..it is just an observation...and I knoe more then one Ordained minister in my area that has TV...

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

We actually have no TV. What we watch we watch on Youtube.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

If you ever get a chance to watch Pink Floyd's "pulse" concert do so.
It is awesome.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

That is "Mr Anderson" to you......

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I get Agent Smith confused with some half-elf dude...

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I live in NYC, which is not as conservative as other parts of the US of course, so the UPCI churches here tend not to be as strict as what appears to be the norm elsewhere. It runs the gamut though. I was surprised to go to a UPCI prayer meeting recently and see male leaders in short pants to the knees and members in good standing wearing loose fitting muscle shirts. Then again, there are UPCIs here where many of the women wear hats and the men in leadership have no hair on their faces at all. UPCI up here seems to universally frown on hanging jewelry though (chains and earrings, bracelets) whether gold/silver or costume, but not multiple rings and brocades/pins.

As for me, I'm not in UPCI, but definitely believe Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and Acts 2:38 is the New Birth. I listen to secular music and watch TV (though honestly most modern TV shows aren't worth looking at), go to the movies (although I much prefer to watch them on DVD - movies in NYC are $14.00) wear shorts to the knees (even to bible study) and sometimes wear loose fitting muscle shirts in public if it's overwhelmingly hot.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

A lot of COG, AG, COGOP, COGIC and some Baptist churches teach that way.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I consider myself a moderate 3 stepper. Some may disagree but that's their opinion.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Oh my goodness. That is all I can say. Where has the time gone. Where have the people gone?

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Huh?

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

I am a 'three stepper' myself. I ad mit it openly and defend it as best as I can. I am considered liberal by most accounts in that I believe in modesty, not standards. One can have the dress to the floor, sleeves to the wrist, collar to the chin, and still not be modest. I do watch TV, but very seldom. Mostly YouTube myself, and I see nothing wrong with going to a clean movie now and then. But, I am not going to bash the more conservative elements who have a stronger dress code, because that is their walk in the Lord. I could only pray that my walk would also reflect a godly man's walk, to walk in holiness, and bring glory to Christ in all I say and do.

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Have you fully checked the area you are moving to? There are, as you see, many UPC churches that have a variety of stands on these issues. There are also other oneness organizations (PAJC, GNCM, etc.) as well as independent ones.

Good luck!

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Are these 3 step orgs?

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Here in Texas you could find a UPC church that is exactly what you are looking for. Strictly 3 stepper but with pretty relaxed standards on dress and media. Or an independent oneness church with UPC roots like Grace Church in Humble comes to mind. The hard line old timers always like to say that as soon as a church relaxes it standards they stop preaching repentance, Jesus name baptism and HG infilling but it's just not true.

I personally am a three stepper if I had to say but see how people have come to other conclusions. I still wear dresses only pretty much because I love them and own a bunch. I don't have any trouble hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, riding a horse, etc in a skirt. I can't run due to a plate in my ankle but i walk at the local HS track with a bunch of ladies from the local OP church and we all wear skirts and several of the girls from my former UPC church do marathons in skirts. I love how they hide my huge rear end the way pants never could :)

I don't enjoy secular music much and listen to gospel and contemporary Christian music mostly but I'm not offended by secular music that is not trying to be offensive (some is). I drink wine but don't get drunk. I use whatever language is appropriate to the situation believing that what is a 'cuss' word is decided by the time and place... I don't 'curse' anyone ever and try not to be offensive with my language, but alas have failed a time or two with those constantly looking to be offended.

I don't own a TV. Many of my more educated secular friends including a lesbian doctor don't either, so I don't see a lack of TV as any kind of 'holiness' statement. It is just a mind numbing retard box I don't need sucking up the time I have to get other stuff done. I watch interesting stuff on the internet and occasionally (very) go to movies which I just see as a bad bargain... lot of money for little entertainment.

Of course I don't currently 'go' to church anywhere and that seems to be suiting me better then I ever believed it would so maybe my opinions shouldn't count :)

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

Myself I am looking for more than just a three step, liberal concerning the dress code Church. I cant abide the pre trib and preterist teaching out there. Setting end time Christians up to fall. Of late we (mainly my wife) reached out to a UPC Church in the area.

A lot of formalism. She really gave it her best shot going regularly for months. We set up a visit withsome people there and they acted shocked that we did not go for the dress code. We were told if we were seeking fellowship the Pastors wife would be glad to teach us a Bible study.

Then my wife was unable to attend over the next 3 weeks or so as she has had a lot of sickness in later years. No one called. Nothing from the Pastor. Finally one elderly lady called and said she missed her and hoped she would be coming back.

It worked out about like I thought. My wife still wants to attend and I may go now and then. Im trusting before we die we will find a real New Covenant Church we can fellowship and labor with.

I have never discovered one of these liberal Apostolic Churches whether one step or three. Of course when I say liberal I certainly have no interest in a Church that is not seeking Jesus and obedience fully to his word. So if I ever find one in my area I would give it a try but I feel there must be something beyond "Apostolic Churches" where I will find my place.

When I say I am a "liberal Apostolic".

All modern TV shows that Im aware of are terrible. I have not heard any modern secular music but the snippets I have heard dont draw me to it at all.

Now and then we watch a Youtube movie or an old TV show. Once or twice a month we may listen to some old love songs or music that touched our lives in some way. I do not use "cuss" words tho a few of them are Biblically rooted and if not spoken in anger would not offend me.

I like Dogs, shooting, hiking and camping.

As to Christian music the only thing modern I am enjoying is IHOP. I like old style Charismatic, Christian Rock, and Messianic. Old hymns and k-love brings up the rear to me.

I hate wearing suits. The only times I have is when I officiated at weddings. In summer pullover short sleeve shirts and jeans do fine. In winter flannel shirts and jeans since I was 10 years old.

My wife usually wears long skirts or loose pants.

We both enjoy witnessing. We share the vision of an anti christ system soon ruling the nations for a time and then Yeshua coming back in blazing fire overthrowing all nations to gather together the Children of light that they may rule and reign forever.

We spend most of our time toward the things of him.

We believe only overcomers will gain eternal life and that most people who think they are Christians will wind up in Hell.

Jesus said FEW would be saved.

A 3 step "liberal".









It

What I don't understand is why people who don't fit in a church don't start a church, then turn it over to someone well grounded.

If I go by MTD's example, I should forget about finding a church. I'll just pray and read the Bible at home.

There is not a church nearby that believes like I do anyway...

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

1. Is what you believe the truth?
2. If it is how much can you compromise?

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

What do you believe Houston? What would be important to you in a church?

The wonderful thing about Tigger is that I'm the only one, I'm the only one. GRRRR!


Oh, I believe the Bible. I lean 3 step. Wish 3 step crowd would place more emphasis on "by grace are ye saved." Can't hang with the "saved at faith" crowd. I'm not comfortable with leading people through a prayer and announcing that x amount of salvations took place. My eschatology leans partial preterism, but I'm not completely sold on anyones interpretation of prophecy.

I'm not a "standards" guy. But, I looooove Pentecostal chicks (when they are not straggly and look like they crawled out of a trailer park that was hit by a tornado).

Re: Liberal "Three-Steppers"
 

It is much easier to live a consecrated life when you are encouraged to do so thru associations with other people who are trying to live a consecrated life. MTD has associations that encourage and support him I'm sure.