Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Here's some late night encouragement for the Saints from one of my favorite preachers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNag...3&feature=plcp

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

He's always yelled quite a bit, but thank you for posting the link. It was a great message for anyone struggling with condemnation. :thumbsup

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

I'm not a fan of preachers who yell.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Me either. I only listened to it because it was 7 minutes. :heeheehee

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Does he always yell when he preaches?

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

i don't understand a word.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

I have only tried to listen to him a few times but in my limited experience the answer is YES!!!!

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

He's an amazing pulpiteer and crowd manipulator.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Really? I have only listened to a few teachings he did in Singapore. I did not get that impression.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

You are exactly right. He has preached the same way for the last 20 something years. No manipulating going on with him, he loves what he does.

Well, the stuff I lis tened to was be fore he went char is matic!

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Well, regardless, his speaking style hasn't changed since I meet him when he was 18 or 19.

However, I didn't agree with him when he said, "the Holy Ghost is for empowerment and is not salvational". I don't know how he reconciles that opinion with Romans 8:9. I don't know how anyone can.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

:thumbsup

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

He has every time I've ever heard him. Unfortunately, I can hardly remember a thing he actually preached about the next day.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Agreed. J. Suber is an excellent preacher and an even better teacher even if he is a "liberal". ;) Crowds are manipulated easiest if they invest much emotion and almost no logic into what is spoken to them. Along with exhortation and an emotional plea to the crowd, Suber offers plenty of meat that would appeal to thinking people.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

The point is, there is no sense for all the theatrics.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Except, some people are naturally more dramatic, intense and loud when they are talking or preaching. It's a personality thing. It isn't just for show. When some speakers are passionate about their topic, they get loud and intense. It doesn't mean they're bad people and it also doesn't devalue their message.

There's room in the church for a lot of different personality types and styles. What ministers to you may not minister to others and vice versa.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

PO'd,

I didn't listen to him but did he say "the Holy Ghost is for empowerment" or "the BAPTISM of the Holy Ghost is for empowerment"? Big difference.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

He didn't say that on this video clip. It was on another clip regarding gifting or something, posted either here or NFCF.

There isn't any difference between the two statements you posted. I've seen you try to explain that before and it doesn't make a lick of sense. You can't leave salvational off of either statement. It is a salvational issue because Romans says it is. If you don't have the Holy Ghost, you do not belong to Him. That means you can't make heaven. Heaven is a salvational issue.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

:thumbsup:highfive

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

It may not make a "lick of sense" to you but it does to a lot of people. My point is that if you are going to quote people at least do it accurately. The distinction between what you quote them as saying and what they may have really said may not mean anything to you but it may to a lot of other people. I am sure you would not want to be misquoted.

I think he said the baptism of the Holy Ghost, as in tongues. That was a long time ago.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Okay, I see I should have had the exact quote. I thought what I posted was the quote, but I see it would be better to be totally exact. I have no idea how I would be able to locate the clip again. Isn't it Sherri that teaches that the Holy Ghost is for empowerment, but not necessary for salvation?

So, since whatever was said makes sense to a lot of people, in your opinion, would you mind explaining it again?

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

I probably will not be the best wordsmith at midnight after a long day so others can help me if they see this.

Generally my understanding is that One Steppers believe that there is an infilling of the Holy Spirit at conversion that happens upon repentance and asking God to save you that is seperate from the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues that is an empowerment after one accepts Christ as their savior.

That is why if you are going to quote a one stepper (or anybody else for that matter) it is important to do so correctly because words mean things!

I am pretty certain that JS nor anybody else I know of would not say that the Holy Spirit is only for empowerment while they would pretty certainly say the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit is after initial salvation and for empowerment.

While you do not agree with the distinction never the less it is important to be accurate. What you did was the same as some ignorant trinitarians claiming that Oneness folks are "Jesus Only" (of course in fairness there are some ignorant Oneness folks who are "Jesus Only" - LOL)

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Yes its very simple when you see the truth of Romans 8:9. Receiving the Holy Ghost IS the baptism of the Spirit.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Can Jesus live in your heart without the Holy Spirit?

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Thanks, this is the view I thought you were speaking of - one-stepper. That means that I didn't misquote JS, and can only disagree with him on his position.

We've already covered the one and three stepper view, ad nauseam, so there isn't any point of going around that tree once again.

The only thing I can say is that it doesn't make sense to say you are "saved initially" and then empowered, at some point, with the Spirit. In the first place, the Bible says you NEVER, at any time, belonged to God without having His Spirit dwelling in you.

Your view would bring the idea of two separate conversions and I certainly do not see that in the scriptures.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Yes, very simple. :thumbsup

Yes, if you are a Baptist, but I'm not a Baptist. :heeheehee

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

PO, I am not following you. My post showed EXACTLY why I believe you misquoted. I believe as a one stepper he would definitely think that the Holy Spirit is "for salvation". That the "baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues" is a later empowerment. So for you to say that he said the Holy Spirit is only an empowerment would not be true. He said the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit was an empowerment.

Your doctrinal position treats being filled with the Holy Spirit the same as being baptized in the Holy Spirit where one stepper's do not. You can at least represent their position by quoting them correctly on their doctrine.

You are missing the point that one steppers DO believe one is filled with the Holy Spirit when saved. However they don't believe that is the same thing as baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

:thumbsup

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

A one stepper view says at conversion a portion of The Holy Spirit is received for regeneration,and at the baptism of The Holy Ghost another portion is received for Power,but where does the Bible teach such ?

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

It doesn't, Scott. :dogpat

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

Really? I wonder where I got that idea? Oooooh, I read it in the Bible!! :heeheehee

Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
 

:yourock