Christianity and War
 

Do you believe the Bush Doctrine (a political ideology, not a theological one) which states that if our nation perceives another nation a threat that we should preemptively attack them first before they get the chance to attack us?

If so, how does that idea comply with the Christian virtue of "turning the other cheek?" After all, America is a "Christian nation," right?

Re: Christianity and War
 

I have some strong and unpopular opinions about war Dante...

But I noticed something from your thread about transgendered persons... You really never participated or shared your own opinion about any of it.

While I think it's OK that you may want to stir things up with controversial subjects, I do not think it's OK for you to sit on the sidelines in cowardly fashion.

I would like to see you start by giving your own opinion about the subject in question, please.

Re: Christianity and War
 

Where can we find the source of his "doctrine"?

Re: Christianity and War
 

Scripture will tell you that God
does not even recognize your nation's
sovereignty; which seems weird after
all the free will stuff...and "Christian
nation," ya, I think that came later?

To put it simply, if you had to give up
your citizenship, would you become a Christian?
Because that is what you have to do, and
anyone who tells you different is lying to you.

And just juxtapose your instructions with
Bush's doctrine, and see why God laughs
at your leaders:
"Turn the other cheek"
"Preemptive strike" :lol

And if you think that you are
picking up your gun today to
defend something of God's,
or mine, think again. Satan
told you that.

Re: Christianity and War
 

(Wondering why I bother, but nevertheless....) Got scripture for that? Was Paul a Christian? Was he a Roman citizen?

Re: Christianity and War
 

Ever hear the old adage that actions speak louder than words?

Re: Christianity and War
 

No thanks! :)

Re: Christianity and War
 

Well now...I think T2w is right.
That's not exactly fair Dante. Surely you have some opinion on your own subject or you would not have posted it for a topic.

Re: Christianity and War
 

I had actually planned on sharing my opinion, but that was before T2W resorted to immature antics by calling me "cowardly." I'm not obligated to share anything other than guide discussions.

Re: Christianity and War
 

No antics. I see those who do not participate except to stir a pot as the very worst kinds of cowards. Participate or don't, matters not to me but I don't plan to be used. Healthy boundaries is my middle name :)

Re: Christianity and War
 

Well I planned to share more but now I am done on this subject.

Coward

Re: Christianity and War
 

:lol

Re: Christianity and War
 

Good grief

Re: Christianity and War
 

I am for Christianity and war.

I have participated in both.

...says the chef.

Re: Christianity and War
 

I am against war.

Re: Christianity and War
 

Just War:

Principles of the Just War

-A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All non-violent options must be exhausted before the use of force can be justified.
-A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority. Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups who do not constitute an authority sanctioned by whatever the society and outsiders to the society deem legitimate.
-A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered. For example, self-defense against an armed attack is always considered to be a just cause (although the justice of the cause is not sufficient--see point #4). Further, a just war can only be fought with "right" intentions: the only permissible objective of a just war is to redress the injury.
-A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.
-The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace. More specifically, the peace established after the war must be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the war had not been fought.
-The violence used in the war must be proportional to the injury suffered. States are prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the injury suffered.
-The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Civilians are never permissible targets of war, and every effort must be taken to avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.

I don't believe that a Christian should participate in an unjust war.

Re: Christianity and War
 

Ok, you don't temporally have to give up your citizenship, ok?
Stay a democrat, and see if you can follow Christ.
I did not pick up my cross to follow Paul.
Extrapolate "deny your family, yourself; everything you love"
however you like.

Re: Christianity and War
 

No kidding. Good grief, indeed. what a bunch of hypocrites. America is the world's largest arms dealer. Let me give you a little warm-up of the look you are going to get when you start saying "I'm a Christian" at judgement, k? :blink

and I'll say again that not you
or any of your relatives, grand dads included,
ever picked up a gun and protected me,
or Christianity, from squat. God does not need
your help to keep the Kingdom safe, k?
"Just war" included, what a crock.

"Let the dead bury the dead."
None of this should even come up
on a "Christian's" radar.

Re: Christianity and War
 

If you don't know, just say so! :lol

I follow Paul. The rest follow Peter and John. No one really follows Jesus.

Re: Christianity and War
 

I am looking at the red letter Christian movement... There is so much to learn in what Jesus said... and it really does not look much like today's Christianity.

Yeah. That's why I'd rather work on Sunday. LOL

Re: Christianity and War
 

While I enjoy the song "WAR" I disagree with the lyrics that say it is good for "absolutely nothing". I do believe that there are instances where to protect our country we must act proactively.

For example to allow a radical Muslim Nation like Iran now or what Pakistan may be someday soon to have nuclear weapons is unaccpetable.

Unlike the Soviet Union who was our enemy in the Cold War a radical Muslim nation has no common sense to restrain it form using a nuclear weapon when faced with "mutually assured destruction".

In addition I believe the United States should take out Radical Muslim terror cells who are continually planning attacks on the West no matter where they are.

About the only thing I support President Hussein in is his increased use of Drone attacks to kill Al Queda and other terrorist leaders.

Re: Christianity and War
 

It would help for Congress to close the borders and repeal any executive orders that counter that. Just sayin....:rolleyes2

Re: Christianity and War
 

AMEN!!!!:happydance There are four things you can tax me for and I won't mind;

1. Build more prisons (so we never have to release dangerous people due to over
crowding)

2. Rid the United State of fire ants.

3. Cure cancer

4. Build a fence on he border of the USA and Mexico. (Force Mexico to face
up to their systemic economic problems and start providing jobs for their
own countrymen.)

Re: Christianity and War
 

Fire Ants! Now that is a losing battle. I managed to only have one ant home invasion this summer because hubby was diligent on poisoning the ant hills...but they are still out there. Ugh!

The border is not only open to illegal undocumented immigrants (to be politically correct) but also to whomever lands in Mexico by plane and travels across the border to get here.

Not allowed to say the "C" (cure) word for cancer, but the cure is being suppressed. Lots and lots and lots of money in cancer drugs that reduce the quality of life and mostly do not cure one of the disease. Makes me wonder just exactly where all the money goes that is collected from the "Race for the Cure" campaigns.

Re: Christianity and War
 

Fine. I don't know.

Re: Christianity and War
 

:lol

Re: Christianity and War
 

And I won't lie, CC, I've really
considered this, these, posts-
-site guidelines preclude me from
telling you what I really think, ok?
Seek help.

Re: Christianity and War
 

Re: Christianity and War
 

Dordrecht, don't tell bbyrd! Of course I don't really know what bbyrd said in his response to CC1's post ...... and so what, I don't understand much that bbyrd post anytime. Just sayin'


Been Thinkin

Re: Christianity and War
 

The Bush Doctrine doesn't comply with Just War doctrine. One cannot attack a country simply because it's a potential threat. I mean, we're potential threats to many countries... what if they adopted the Bush Doctrine tomorrow and implimented an attack to defend themselves from a future attack from America???

It leads us down the road to insanity. Just War Doctrine is the only context in which I can accept a war's validity:


Principles of the Just War

-A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All non-violent options must be exhausted before the use of force can be justified.
-A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority. Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups who do not constitute an authority sanctioned by whatever the society and outsiders to the society deem legitimate.
-A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered. For example, self-defense against an armed attack is always considered to be a just cause (although the justice of the cause is not sufficient--see point #4). Further, a just war can only be fought with "right" intentions: the only permissible objective of a just war is to redress the injury.
-A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.
-The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace. More specifically, the peace established after the war must be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the war had not been fought.
-The violence used in the war must be proportional to the injury suffered. States are prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the injury suffered.
-The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Civilians are never permissible targets of war, and every effort must be taken to avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.

Re: Christianity and War
 

:highfive

Re: Christianity and War
 

Why did the christians allow hitler so much freedom? We had tje ability to stop him before he started to take countires.We just could have kicked him out of the Rhineland when he took it in 1936. Sometimes we use turn the other check as an excuse not to do the right thing.
I feel we must strike first in the beginning to stop such people.
Look at how many lives could have been saved.
However, if we must go to war, I believe in fire bombing our enemies cities into ruins. leave no one alive.

Re: Christianity and War
 

:blink

Yeah. Christians.

Re: Christianity and War
 

Well, there's a spectrum. Just like non-Christians. Which reminds me of my latest musings and potential new thread, maybe a poll: are Christians any different from non-Christians? Are they better? (Stay tuned. ;))

Re: Christianity and War
 

I just tried to imagine what Christ would say to him, and then I repeated it. Is this clear enough?