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A lot has been said about the ministry...some good...some bad...concerning money...jobs and on and on...I do not have the time to express what I would like to say however I have been a missionary for over 44 years and have been on the receiving side from America and giving side to the people here.

I think situations differ...needs varry...however if it were not for the kindness of the American people giving many times we would have went hungry...and I am not lazy. In fact we keep office hours and go to church somewhere almost every night. In the meantime when things were tight I have taught English classes to help and other things.

Many things just boil down to LIVING RIGHT AND COMMON SENSE. Most of us can say we know what is it to be blessed and to suffer...they seem to go hand and hand.

If we are faithful with little He trusts us with much...however some people relax and LEARN HOW to get the job done...and a life without prayer becomes an open door to the devil.

I known people who are awesome preachers but they do not pray...

People tend to become relaxed in what they know best...and often DIE doing what they can do the best! I know missionaries that have got caught up with life and forgot what was really first...

I have no problem paying my tithes or even receiving tithes HOWEVER one thing I always tell our people...GOD SEES WHERE HIS PEOPLE'S MONEY GO...IF I AM UNWISE HE SEES THAT TOO...

I admire my friend Sherri Cupples and she might not want me to say this but I will...They no doubt could live far above the way they live however they chose NOT to take all the tithes...and take a modest salary. They work day and night both in the USA and abroad. Giving...giving and giving....

It does not bother me in the least if a pastor takes all the tithes however HE will give an account to GOD...and believe me God keeps good records and He knows HOW we spend our money....

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:yourock

Sister Alvear I like that! We cheerfully tithe and not unto the Pastor but unto the Lord, with the understanding that Pastor is not responsible to me but unto the Lord and we don't answer unto the Pastor for our tithe but unto God.

Mike

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So do you believe he will go to hell for misusing God's money... or still go to heaven?

BTW Sis... exactly how can I support you?

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Nevermind... I see it in your sig. line. :)

The link does not work however.

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I second this wholeheartedly.

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I like money. We all like money. But money can never be first.

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I believe God is the judge however if we misuse HIS money that seems very serious to me...I would not want to misuse His money....
I always think of the little ladies that give from fixed incomes...It would be horribly wrong for me to misuse the money they send me for missions...

My address for support is:

South American Foreign Missions
PO Box 797
Jonesville, La. 71343


We keep records of all monies sent and send out yearly receipts...

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Money is a good servant but a poor master...

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I wish more people's actions were affected by those thoughts of widows giving from their tiny fixed incomes. My husband's granny used to send money from her SS check to televangelists... She ate baloney and peanut butter a lot. It made me very sad but back then we were broke and raising five kids and couldn't do anything to help her.

I vowed a while back not to take a deduction for my contribution to God's Kingdom. If I get it back from the government it does not feel to me as if I really sacrificed anything to give it. And since all my needs are met and then some it is already hard for me to feel like I do any sacrificial giving... A personal problem I'm sure.

But if you get it back you'll have more to give. :)

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And even less to give if you have to pay out!

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There is nothing in the bible about having a building based system called a 'church' with a man over this building based system receiving the tithe. Such a plan is nothing more than a man made religious system and placed upon the saints of God as having scriptural support.

There is nothing in the bible about a pastor 'taking the tithes'. Nothing. Zero. It's a travesty to the Word of God and to the Kingdom of God and to the lives of the saints of God.

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Whether we call it tithes or whatever missionaries have to live on help from others...I am not debating tithes but talking about responsibility using God's money...

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I personally pay tithes but if you see it different I am not here to debate just saying if money is placed in our hands we should use it wisely....

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I'm sure you are a honest hearted good person. I know people who know your family personally and I've never heard anything but good about your ministry. I hope you're not taking my criticism of the religious system personally, but paying tithes to a man in a man made system just isn't scriptural at all.

Concerning missionaries, when does the local body of believers begin to support themselves? There have been missionaries of hundreds of denominations going to Africa and South America for decades and decades, by the thousands, and yet the local assemblies aren't able to support themselves? Why isn't the gospel working for them after all these years. What's wrong?

Again, I'm not attacking you personally, but the missionary business is just another division of the big business of religion. If the gospel isn't working enough to free the people from poverty then the wrong gospel is being preached.

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Where is this found in the bible?

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That is a good question with no doubt many opinions. I will give my opinion

When I was very young maybe 15 or so I read a book about China. The book told of what happened to christian churches in when communist took over and for the most part the churches that depended upon American money to survive closed down because they did not know how to survive on their on. I already felt in my heart that I would be a missionary and decided in my own heart that if I could I would try to plant a native church in Brazil that would support itself.

I did not know how hard that would be at that time but after becoming a missionary that is the route I took and 4 years later I married on the field someone that felt the same.

So briefly this is how we have worked...We started churches with that goal in mind and slowly worked toward it. Today the work is very big yet at least 95 % of the work takes care of themselves...We try to help on new projects and in new areas. For example where we started the work (state of Sao Paulo) we have probably 75 works and they are all self supporting and in turn many of them help support national missionaries that are sent out with the same goal and purpose.

Another state that is now self supporting is the state of Minas Gerias and the state where we live now is almost there.

Many states such as Bahia, Mato Grosso, and Para are self supporting.

We have a national missionary in the state of Ceara that is supported by some of the churches here and Brother Alvear and I were just up there with them not long ago. They are working on becoming self supporting and within a year should reach their goal.

Our son Arlei moved 5 years ago to the lower basin of the Amazon jungle area and we helped him along with the nationals get started and he has built 5 churches along with several preaching points and the churches are self supporting. He is not self supporting yet but should be within the next two years. We helped him buy a little plot of jungle land where he is planting their rice and beans (main food here) someone from America (one of those little ladies I talked about helped him buy a cow) As soon as they get a better water system he feels they too will not have to be helped with outside money. Which is really very little. I personally feel that within 2 years that they will become self supporting and help support other works from there.

The work in Brazil supports a small mission outreach in the country of Paraguay and we help in a small way in the Philippines...The work in the Philippines that we oversee is also now self supporting.

Several of our pastors came to us last year they see our health is failing and they hate for us to have to come to America. They asked us how much money we needed for the church of Brazil to help us out because they want us to die there with them....

Brother Alvear and I hold no office other than a spiritual office of being their mother and father in the Lord.

Right now we are in the states for a couple ladies meeting and a special service in Louisiana. We try to pay our own way as we go along and not be a burden to others.

I PERSONALLY do not believe in American owned churches in foreign countries...but that is just me. I respect those of other opinions but I believe he national church is the Bible way. However I am so aware of the pros and cons on both sides of the fence...

I know missionaries that put rules on the walls of their churches because of the group they belong to and NOT because of a biblical doctrine..so their people will look just like the Americans that support them...well money flows in (sometimes Americans are so dumb and please excuse me for being so plain) but as soon as the money is gone...the little so called doctrines also go out the door because they were just doing certain things for American money....

People have to become converted in Christ Jesus not some man made organization...The cross is denial of the flesh and followering Jesus should not be for money or material gain.

I know missionaries that are rich!

Years ago when we had a house full of children and things were very tight...one day my phone rang and it was a missionary that called me to tell me they were leaving Brazil. We talked a little while and at the end of our conversation she said to me, Sister Janice I just wanted to call you and tell you, I could not live like you all do without knowing from one day to the next what we will eat and how much money that will come in but just want you to know you all are a real example of Bible missionaries...
Wow...that meant a lot to me...

I think a real missionary"s goal is to work themselves out of a job! Since the word missionary is not in the Bible I really think a missionary is a planter...However there are many ways to plant...some do like we do and work making Jesus known...then moving on to another village, another city and so forth...others work all their lives translating the Bible in Indian languages and helping wherever needed.

Well...it is early and I think I have rambled....lol...feel free to ask me any questions conceding how we work or anything like that. I will do my best to answer...Over the years we have taught classes that has nothing to do with the Bible but yet in another way has a lot to do with the Bible...Classes such as soap making, planting gardens, music, English, bread making and all kinds of things...we have bought sewing machines for different areas...helped our son buy brick molds to make bricks, sent some through collage to help them have a way of supporting themselves...just on and on....

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sorry for all the mistakes...I don't function good at this hour....lol...

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Right now we are trying to raise money to buy Bibles for the Indians, helping on some dorms in our area, helping on a retaining wall at the south Brazil camp ground and helping another son that is out of a job that takes care of a region. I guess now we are kinda like a spare tire helping when needed....lol...

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Well said, Sister Alvear.

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My problem is this sister... I believe that not only will HE give an account to God but so will WE. If we give our money and know, or should have known, that it was not being used to further the Kingdom there is no getting away from our own guilt.

When we can plainly see that the ministers in our churches are living rich, supporting adult children who will not work under the guise of giving them paid positions that someone else would do without pay, building huge edifices, taking lavish vacations, buying vacation properties, wearing designer suits... the list goes on and on... And we are not innocent when we enjoy that huge building and all the programs and send our kids on the youth trip that is really just an extra vacation.... And all the while people in our own communities may not have enough to eat, are not hearing the word of God except when they cruise by a televanglist while changing the channel... While foregin missions have needs...

God will see the whole with every excuse, including 'I gave, someone else was responsible for how my money was used' stripped away.

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This whole thread is spoken out of the heart of a true servant of Christ, ministering where there are needs. I am so grateful to know that there are true servants of Christ ministering in whatever ways they can to the body of Christ.

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Truth indeed! :highfive

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I don't plan to give where there Is no
need.....
Wonder what God will say to those that have millions when He has little ones that have no bread......we had all better live in the light of eternity....

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This thread breaks my heart in unspeakable ways.

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Please speak them... I would love to hear.

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Here's a few of dozens and dozens and dozens.

3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Pro 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Ecc 5:19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.

Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

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It just saddens me that people are starving while I'm sitting here not starving. And, there's not much I can do about it, really. It's just sad.

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Also, when enriched preachers say that Mother Teresa, who, for over 45 years, ministered to the poor, sick, orphaned, and dying, would live for eternity in Hell if she never received the Holy Ghost...well, that saddens me, too.

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Great stories of faith Sis Alvear and you should be commended for your dedication to your calling. I'm sure it's been a labor of love for you and your family and may the Lord bless you for it.

I guess what I'm seeing though is resulting in questioning the need to continue sending missionaries to countries such as Africa, South America and Mexico for, in some cases, hundreds of years now. I realize that the common people (and I don't say that disparagingly) in those areas are most likely living in poverty that we here in America can only imagine, not seeing it for ourselves. But the gospel should change that. The gospel is more than preaching so that individuals will miss hell, the gospel should also prosper and improve an individual's life. It should give hope of a better life, and not just a hope but a reality. After hundreds of years of preaching by various religious sects, it seems to me that the gospel isn't raising the standard of living for those who are placing their faith in Jesus Christ for whatever reason.

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It is good to always ask questions... if questions are never asked, then there will never be an answer.

One scripture I am thinking of in regards to why the gospel has not changed these countries that missionaries are taking the gospel to, is this one where Jesus said in Matthew 26:11 "...for ye have the poor always with you." Not meaning to take this scripture out of context for he was speaking to Judas who was angry that the money used to annoint his head was not sold and the $ given to the poor. And then Jesus responded with... the poor shall always be with you....

So that makes me think that Christ knew that was why we should always be willing to give to others in need, because poverty is something that could happen to us at any time. A job loss, illness, accident etc., could change our lives forever, and we could be at someone else's mercy.

According as we give to those in need, so we ought to be willing to give a chance for those to hear the gospel who have never heard it before.

Just my thoughts on the matter....

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There are things that can be done. Let's do them together. Do you know about Heifer International? Or World Vision has a Christmas catalog where you can give livestock, fishing supplies, seeds and plows... Look out though... they are spammers in the worst sense of the word. Or let's support our very own Sis. A

Only ONE sits on the Mercy Seat... and He aint a Pentecostal preacher, lol!

You know, she had a mansion and was loaded with cash.

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preach!

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She can and does VERY well :)

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We are on the same plan! :)