Are Christians better?
 

First, I want to state that many of the Christians I know are wonderful people. They are kind, generous, honest (mostly ;)), reliable, etc. Some aren't so wonderful. I can say the same for my unbelieving acquaintances. So now, I'm wondering: are Christians in general better than non-Christians? Is a random person on the street more likely to be "good" if you discover that he or she is a believer?

There is some flexibility in the question, of course. We should define "better" and "good" and "Christian", first of all. Well, how about if I leave that up to you, the participants in the discussion? :)

So, what say you?

Attachment 3916

I like this answer!

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I say that a huge part of the problem is defining Christian. I have known people who use the term to promote businesses... Some less than honest businesses... It seems that the term encourages people to relax and makes it easier to stick it to 'em. Think 'Christian Yellow Pages' and that big fish on a plumber or AC repairman's trucks.

However if a person is truly indwelt by the spirit of God and is being changed to His likeness... things should be better depending on where they are in the process.

Still over all if the question is about moral character and...

If the choices are:

1. Better
2. Worse
3. No difference

Sadly, my choice is 3.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Me too... now if I could just find more people who live it :)

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Timmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy. If you would listen to Ravi Zacharias' christian apologetics (free podcasts available on itunes, along with podcasts by william lane craig) you would know that while atheists, agnostics and nonbelievers may be ethical and good people, there is no rationale for their good behavior because evil actions of murder and hatred are equally valid in that worldview. why should an atheist be ethical, there is no reasonable impulse as to why he can't be evil. Only a theistic worldview gives you reasons to be ethical, because there is a moral law giver who will judge.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I've been hurt by both Christian and non Christian alike. It was more disappointing to be hurt by Christians than by the non Christians because I held this misnomer that they knew better.

Now I just place my trust in Christ and the Word of God. Sometimes we just got to grow up and become accountable for our own actions. We must learn to make decisions on what Christ taught us, not man. I have both Christian and non Christian friends who love me and who I think are wonderful people.

I agree that there is not much difference in moral character. That is sad because Christ expects his followers to rock the world...and they did...for a time.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Personally, I don't think Christians are "better" than anyone for the most part. There are some behaviors Christians shy away from or try to avoid for spiritual growth.

However, a Christian whose faith is rooted in a Spirit Filled experience with the God of the Bible does tend to be more "spiritual" than the average person, in my opinion.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Thanks for the posts.

More, please. :)

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I've learned not to believe anyone when they say they are a "Christian" so readily as I have in the past. Now, whenever I meet someone and immediately they tell me they are "Christian" my guard goes up, and I wonder how they are going to try to defraud me. Because that has been my experience so far. Every person who immediately tries to get you to believe they are a Christian have an ulterior motive.

So Timmy, as to your original question, are Christians better than the average Joe on the street... I would have to say no. Many are following a belief system of works that doesn't change their hearts. Sadly. You have to look deeper than just for someone who attends church, pays tithes, and calls themselves Christian. I would say .... look at the fruit, before you believe that they are truly a Christ-follower.

So now, I don't take people at face value. Just telling me that you are a "Christian" is not enough. I don't care if you tell me you are a one God, apostolic, tongue-talking, holy roller, born again believer ..... yada yada...

I look for your fruit. Christ told his disciples, "By your love one for another shall all men know ye are my disciples" John 13:35

That is the fruit I look for. How do you treat your fellow man? What fruits of the spirit are you exhibiting? How do you treat those who have treated you wrongly?

Just looking for an outward appearance, or a mouthful of "christian talk" doesn't do a thing for me... anymore.

I've found true believers in the most unusual places too. You just never can judge a "book by its cover."

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I have a problem with those "Christians" who tell you themselves they are "better!" and how much "better" they are.

BT

I'm better.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

There you go! BUT, I know better! :foottap

BT

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Of course not. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. We like sheep have gone astray. We have turned our own way, and our iniquities have been laid upon Christ. There is no one who is Good but God. We are all sinful in nature.

So, are Christians better than non-believers? Not at all.

Are Christians in a better place than non-believers? Absolutely.

The difference is that we have a savior who has remitted our sins, and brought us out of the cesspool of sin. This is not because we were somehow more special than non-believers. This was because we heard the gospel and responded in faith. We are in a better position than those who have not yet responded, and remain lying in the cesspool, yet we are not better because we'd be right back where they are if we didn't have Christ.

You're bitter!!! LOL

Its not because you responded. It is because you were predestined to respond.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

:snapout

:D

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I'm a glaring example of how the doctrine of predestination doesn't make sense.

Of all the people in the world, there is nothing about me that would cause God to choose me and not someone else. In fact, the opposite is true. If he picks and chooses certain people to be saved, and certain others to be damned, then I would have no hope of salvation.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

:foottap YEP! That's it! I'm bitter because you're better! :heeheehee

Been Thinkin

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I like how you see we're not better, but we are in a better standing with God. That is a much better way to put it.

Active faith in one's heart is what truly makes him a Christ follower, not fleshly works, or special outward attire.

Love is the one ingredient in a life that produces such wonderful fruit, that completely that changes the whole equation from one who just simply "claims" to be a Christian.... as opposed to someone who is displaying the fruits of the spirit of Christ in their life.

The difference is in the fruit.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

And "more spiritual" means...?

Re: Are Christians better?
 

If true Christians aren't better than they would be otherwise, there is no point for anybody to be one.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Expound please.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Not sure I quite follow. And I'm not sure you are really answering the question. I mean, you start by saying "no", and then it looks like you are explaining a "yes" answer.

You were in the cesspool of sin before, and now (I think, if I understand you correctly) you are not. That seems "better", to me. And this doesn't really hinge on whether you deserved to be pulled out of that cesspool or not. If you were, you were.

If you're not a better person A.D. than you were B.C., there is no point being a Christian. A lustful lying lascivious lady should not be a lustful lying lascivious lady after her encounter with Jesus. If she is, there was no point to her encounter. Actually, she's worse off now. She would receive greater damnation than someone who didn't know any better.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Bump for A-man 7.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

If the question is whether Christians are better than they were before they became Christians, then I would say yes.

But if the question is whether or not Christians are better than non-believers, then I would say no. I don't see Christians being better, superior, more important than, or over, non-believers. Paul told the church at Rome not to think themselves better than the Jews who rejected Christ, because in reality the gentiles were grafted into the vine and could just as easily be taken out of it as well.

I don't see myself as being better than the non-believer sitting in the cubicle next to me. We were both born in sin and shapen in iniquity. We both are human and are subject to the passions and lusts of the flesh. We both have sinned and made mistakes. So when it comes to us as individuals, I am no better than she is. As Paul said, "such were some of you."

However, I am in a better standing since I have responded to the gospel, repented, been baptized for the remission of my sins, received the Spirit of God, and have tried my best to live a life pleaseing to HIM. I know that I have the hope of salvation. The non-believer who has done none of these things does not have that same hope. I don't have that hope because of some intrinsic quality, talent, or accomplishment that makes me superior to the non-believer who is absent of those things. No, because it doesn't matter what qualities I have, or talents I possess, or accomplishments I have made, if I were to be without Christ again, then I would be right back in the same hopeless state as the Non-believer sitting next to me.

So, am I better that she is? Superior in some way? No.

Am I in a better place than she is spiritually? Yes. Currently I have a better spiritual standing than she does. Not because of who I am, but because of who HE is.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Are all unbelievers in the cesspool of sin?

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Yes. Cesspool being an alligory I use of course. But all unbelievers remain bound by sin.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

I would agree.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

And you are no longer in that cesspool? No longer bound by sin?

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Good question. What does the HG infilling do to your "sin condition"? Does it disappear? If not, is it easier to deal with?

Oh boy.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

It gives you access to 1 John 1:9.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

No. Christians have been set free from the reign of sin. Does that make us sinless? Not necessarily, because we are still flesh. However, now if we sin we have a mediator between us and God - the man Christ Jesus.

We also have the ability to walk in the Spirit. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We have also been set free from the curse of sin. Non-believers do not have the ability to walk in the Spirit, are ruled by the lusts of the flesh, and are subject to the curse of sin and are bound servants to sin.

While Christians are not perfect and sinless, we have a means by which we can crucify our flesh and minimize the influence of sin in our lives through prayer, submission to God, and to HIS word. We do not have to be servants of sin, or ruled by sin. When we do mess up, we do not face condemnation and have an advocate. Non-believers do not have this hope. They are servants to sin, bound by sin, and have no advocate to plead their case when they stand in judgement.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

What do you mean by that?

Re: Are Christians better?
 

You are better now than when you were bound by sin, you said. But you won't say that you are better than other people who are still bound by sin. Why not?

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Peter allowed peer preasure, bias, and fear to cause him to remove himself from the gentiles when Jews showed up for dinner. It created a stumblingblock for other believers and ended with a face to face challenge by Paul.

Paul had thorns in the flesh that God refused to take away.

Aquila and Priscilla lied to the Apostles and the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost doesn't change our nature from a sin nature to a sinless one. The rapture will do that. The Holy Ghost reconnects us with God, leads and guides us into truth, and gives us grace and power to hold strong in faith and live without committing sin.

A close example is this. I am a man. That is my nature, my gender. As a man, I exhibit behaviors and other things that are typical of men. I can change those behaviors that I exhibit, but that doesn't change my basic male nature and gender.

The same is true with the sin nature. We were all born in sin and shapen in inquity. That is our basic nature and will not change until the rapture when our mortal bodies put on immortality. Through the Holy Ghost however, we have the ability to change our behavior so that we are not ruled by the sinful nature within us, but by the Holy nature of the Spirit of God within us. If we become weak in walking in the Spirit, then we'll notice a re-emergence of that "old man" that sinful nature. It is a constant struggle of submitting our base sinful nature to the dominate nature of the Holy Ghost within us. Paul talked about this struggle when he said "I do the things I don't want to do, and don't do the things I want to do."

For a Christian, its a continual battle to keep our sinful nature subjected to the Spiritual nature of God, so that we can walk in the Spirit and not fulfil the lust of the flesh. We all slip from time to time, and will never walk 100% sinless, but the difference between us and non-believers is that we have the ability to subject our sinful nature to the nature of God within us, and not be ruled by that sinful nature.

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Because without Christ I would be bound by sin again. There is nothing in me that sets me free from sin. There is no action on my part that keeps me unbound. It's only by God's Spirit and Grace that I am free from the rule of sin. It's nothing I've done.

So no. I'm not better than other people because I have the same base nature and would be bound by the same task master they are.

I AM in a better position because I have been set free by Christ. They have yet to be set free, but have the same opportunity if they choose to take it.

Saying I am better than someone else would mean that I am in some way superior to them. In order to be superior to someone or something, you have to have an intrinsic quality that gives you higher status than they are able to obtain. Christians have no such intrinsic quality. Our "status" is solely dependent upon Christ.

How can I say I am better than the non-believer when I am completely dependent on someone else to stay out of that cesspool?

Re: Are Christians better?
 

Never mind.