LOVE
 

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Re: LOVE
 

And that is the simple truth.

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What does it mean to perish in a Biblical sense ?

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The Greek word used there is "Apollumi," which means to destroy fully (reflexive to perish, or lose), litterally or figuratively destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

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So could we be safe to say that in a Biblical sense perish and destruction are the same thing ?

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I don't think so. I'm sure he was speaking of going to hell, because he contrasted that with everlasting life.

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I guess my question would be if one who is lost is in the image of The First Adam,do they have eternal life outside of being in Christ ?

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But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against
such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23 KJV

Re: LOVE
 

Romans 10

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

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Let me say it like this,do sinners have immortality ? Since Everlasting life comes from abiding in Jesus Christ.

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I believe that hell is a place of eternal torment. Their everlasting life will not be the same as ours, as ours will be a reward rather than a punishment.

Re: LOVE
 

AMEN!

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Matthew 5:43-44

The Message (MSG)


43-47 “You’re familiar with the old written law, ‘Love your friend,’ and its unwritten companion, ‘Hate your enemy.’ I’m challenging that. I’m telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, for then you are working out of your true selves, your God-created selves. This is what God does. He gives his best—the sun to warm and the rain to nourish—to everyone, regardless: the good and bad, the nice and nasty. If all you do is love the lovable, do you expect a bonus? Anybody can do that. If you simply say hello to those who greet you, do you expect a medal? Any run-of-the-mill sinner does that.

Re: LOVE
 

Mark 12:29-31
Jesus said, “The first in importance is, ‘Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one; so love the Lord God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence and energy.’ And here is the second: ‘Love others as well as you love yourself.’ There is no other commandment that ranks with these.”

Re: LOVE
 

John 5:41-44
“I’m not interested in crowd approval. And do you know why? Because I know you and your crowds. I know that love, especially God’s love, is not on your working agenda. I came with the authority of my Father, and you either dismiss me or avoid me. If another came, acting self-important, you would welcome him with open arms. How do you expect to get anywhere with God when you spend all your time jockeying for position with each other, ranking your rivals and ignoring God?

Re: LOVE
 

I tell ya, you people. I just saw this thread for the first time and now have that stupid Love American Style tune going through my noggin.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.46663...23574&pid=15.1

Re: LOVE
 

:icecream

Re: LOVE
 

Romans 12:8-10

The Message (MSG)


6-8 If you preach, just preach God’s Message, nothing else; if you help, just help, don’t take over; if you teach, stick to your teaching; if you give encouraging guidance, be careful that you don’t get bossy; if you’re put in charge, don’t manipulate; if you’re called to give aid to people in distress, keep your eyes open and be quick to respond; if you work with the disadvantaged, don’t let yourself get irritated with them or depressed by them. Keep a smile on your face.

9-10 Love from the center of who you are; don’t fake it. Run for dear life from evil; hold on for dear life to good. Be good friends who love deeply; practice playing second fiddle.

Re: LOVE
 

The Message (MSG)


The Way of Love

13 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.

2 If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.

3-7 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.

Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn’t want what it doesn’t have.
Love doesn’t strut,
Doesn’t have a swelled head,
Doesn’t force itself on others,
Isn’t always “me first,”
Doesn’t fly off the handle,
Doesn’t keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn’t revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.

8-10 Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.

Re: LOVE
 

Wow, I really like the way that reads.
Hmm. I have pretty solid evidence that heaven and hell describe two ends of a bell curve. Not sure why this post bugs me? Something about an assumption in here...

Re: LOVE
 

My intent certainly wasn't meant to make to 2 seem similar. And I acknowledge that pinning "everlasting life" to hell was a bad choice.

What I meant to say was that they will live forever, just as we will, but in eternal torment. (I still don't think that my word choice is very good.)

What is your opinion on hell?

Re: LOVE
 

Heard this song just now by Lauren Tally.

THE BROKEN ONES


Maggie came home one day with a raggedy, raggedy ann
She said mama look what I've found in the neighbors garbage can
Had a missing left arm and a right button eye hanging by a thread
She carried it gently up to her room and laid it on her bed with her other dolls

She loves the broken ones, the ones that need a little patching up
She sees the diamond in the rough and makes it shine like new
It really doesn't take that much, a willing heart and a tender touch
If everybody loved like she does there'd be a lot less broken ones

20 years later in a shelter on 18th avenue
A 17 year old girl shows up all black and blue
Needle tracks in her left arm almost too weak to stand
She says I'm lost and I need help as Maggie takes her hand
And says come on in

She loves the broken ones, the ones that need a little patching up
She sees the diamond in the rough and makes it shine like new
It really doesn't take that much a willing heart and a tender touch
If everybody loved like she does there'd be a lot less broken ones

"Jesus said 'What you've done to the least of these my brethren
you've also done unto me"
If you called her an angel she'll be quick to say to you
Shes just doing what the one who died for her would do

Love the broken ones, the ones that need a little patching up
Sees the diamond in the rough and makes it shine like new
It really doesn't take that much a willing heart and a tender touch
If everybody loved like He does there'd be a lot less broken ones
If everybody loved like He does there'd be a lot less broken ones

Re: LOVE
 

Ha, it's changing as I get older...it's funny, I didn't disagree with the words, but...

There's a decent argument that hell, the lake of fire,
does not even exist yet, and I think it's easy to say
what you said and be just stating facts as well as one
can understand them; or be unintentionally presumptuous-
-as in "many will be deceived." They would sound the same,
but come from two different...premises, lol. Doubt this helps, sorry.

Re: LOVE
 

:highfive

I like this. Loving one another with God's eyes, and not our own physical eyes... seeing with our spiritual eyes a diamond in the rough... may we all seek to look at others through God's eyes...

Re: LOVE
 

Gotcha.

I guess what will happen will happen. It won't concern us anyway, but we need to know that whatever it is, we don't want to be there.

Re: LOVE
 

Ha, nice.

Heaven and hell, to our minds, are places that we go when we die; where God and the devil live. Scripture never actually says this, but this is nonetheless what the vast majority of even believers believe; when Scripture will tell you "No one knows where they go when they die," "The Kingdom of Heaven is beside you," and "Understand I AM."

When God says a thing, it comes to pass;
and I don't pray "Your will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven" in vain;
I have confident assurance of this.

So I wonder if this song isn't a perfect
representation for us, of Heaven and hell,
at least for today-I AM-and neverminding
the tomorrows-I WILL BE's-that are presented
to us; so,

WHEN everybody loves like He does there WILL be a lot less broken ones..!

Re: LOVE
 

Hmm, and at the same time, I can't presume, for myself anyway, that I am undeceived. Scripture says that "many will be deceived," and I am left with the distinct impression in other passages that it is the majority that are 'deceived,' and so I am wary of saying things like "I am saved, and they are going to hell;" although I get what you meant.

You rightly say, "...what will happen will happen."
Which of us can add a day to their life by thinking about it?
Yet this is essentially the model that our leaders present to us;
accept Christ today, to save you from a tomorrow.
But the kingdom of Heaven is beside you, right now.

Re: LOVE
 

Just curious, what scripture are you taking the "many will be deceived" from?

Re: LOVE
 

Hmm; NT, red-letter...the specific verse isn't coming to me; I'll find it tonight.That is when the Kingdom will manifest here, and not before.

Re: LOVE
 

Ok, well I thought I could quote that...maybe I extrapolated it from The Separation parable, "I never knew you," etc. I'm finding plenty of allusions now, but no direct quote. I think a more complete thought there might be that very few of us are undeceived in every area? We see through a mirror darkly?

Re: LOVE
 

It's funny how we root for underdogs, but tend to turn away from many in need; finding some label for them, 'undesirable,' 'hippy,' 'hobo;' afraid to get involved, scared we might get hooked in, when quite often all that is wanted is a little direction, maybe even just attention.

Re: LOVE
 

1 John 2:14-17

The Message (MSG)


13-14 And a second reminder, dear children: You know the Father from personal experience. You veterans know the One who started it all; and you newcomers—such vitality and strength! God’s word is so steady in you. Your fellowship with God enables you to gain a victory over the Evil One.

15-17 Don’t love the world’s ways. Don’t love the world’s goods. Love of the world squeezes out love for the Father. Practically everything that goes on in the world—wanting your own way, wanting everything for yourself, wanting to appear important—has nothing to do with the Father. It just isolates you from him. The world and all its wanting, wanting, wanting is on the way out—but whoever does what God wants is set for eternity.

Re: LOVE
 

Deuteronomy 6:5
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Re: LOVE
 

Revelation 2:3-5

New International Version (NIV)



3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Re: LOVE
 

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Jude 1

Today's New International Version (TNIV)


1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James,

To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for[a] Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance.

The Sin and Doom of Ungodly People

3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that the Lord has once for all entrusted to us, his people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[b] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[c] at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[d] 10 Yet these people speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”[e] 16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

A Call to Persevere

17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.[f]

Doxology

24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Re: LOVE
 

Hebrews 12:4-11

The Message (MSG)


4-11 In this all-out match against sin, others have suffered far worse than you, to say nothing of what Jesus went through—all that bloodshed! So don’t feel sorry for yourselves. Or have you forgotten how good parents treat children, and that God regards you as his children?


My dear child, don’t shrug off God’s discipline,
but don’t be crushed by it either.
It’s the child he loves that he disciplines;
the child he embraces, he also corrects.

God is educating you; that’s why you must never drop out. He’s treating you as dear children. This trouble you’re in isn’t punishment; it’s training, the normal experience of children. Only irresponsible parents leave children to fend for themselves. Would you prefer an irresponsible God? We respect our own parents for training and not spoiling us, so why not embrace God’s training so we can truly live? While we were children, our parents did what seemed best to them. But God is doing what is best for us, training us to live God’s holy best. At the time, discipline isn’t much fun. It always feels like it’s going against the grain. Later, of course, it pays off handsomely, for it’s the well-trained who find themselves mature in their relationship with God.