Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Quick Background: Most of you remember that I was UPC for approximately 10 years from my early 20's to early 30's before leaving around 2007 or 2008. In that time I became what I think of as an Agnostic Christian. In that I still believe in God, and I still think Jesus is the best image of Him, but after years of obsession over every minute detail of my spirituality, It was a relief to put everything else into a big box labeled "I don't know about any of this, but that's OK, because I don't think it matters".

And leaving the UPC, I was amicably divorced, and eventually remarried to an awesome guy, who just so happens to be an atheist, and after 12 years of bareness (in my 1st marriage), I got a wonderful surprise and now have a 16 month old daughter. And I am happier than I've ever been in my life.

But something I stumbled upon last month upset me quite a bit, and I find myself still wrestling with it. See, in all my post-UPC questioning, I never questioned the existence of God. My belief all hinged on one tiny little thing. I could logically explain away 99% of the things that happened to me in my time as an apostolic, but I never questioned that I had some kind of spiritual encounter that ended with speaking in tongues. Especially as it happened alone, in my bedroom. And all these years, I held onto that....that God must be real because of that experience.

The article that I read doesn't really matter, the gist of it was scientific studies regarding brain usage, (the language centers of the brain weren't used while speaking in tongues), linguistic study (none of the occurrences witnessed were real languages, or linguistically matched an unknown language) and that there was a similarity among speakers to the tongues of the leaders in that same area. The end results were that tongues were most likely learned behavior, and that the brain remembers the sounds and phrases and can repeat them basically subconsciously.

This was disturbing to me because, as I said, my entire belief in God, kind of hinges upon this one "proof". I am curious as to how the other side would respond.

I won't tell you not to post scripture, but I will add the corollary that it most likely won't have the same meaning/impact on me that it does on you.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Still praying for you Michlow. I think you certainly threw the scripture about being unequally yoked back in God's face when you married an atheist.

I am not sure there is anything anybody could say in response to your post that would really make any difference.

It is good to see your name pop up though and I wish you well.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Hey CeeCeeOne :)

I really didn't think of it as "throwing the scripture in God's face" when I married my husband. I didn't think of scripture at all. I don't say that smugly. I just came to think of the Bible as a book written by men, thousands of years ago and still being used as a "Rule Book" today. And where as I think it contains lots of wisdom, I don't think it is intended to be used as a rule book, or that it is necessarily THE WORD OF GOD. I came to believe that God didn't intend to send us a book, he intended to send himself. So I started living my life under the simple precepts: Are my actions wrong according to the laws of the land or are they hurtful (unloving) to another person. (Lest it sound like I'm leaving God out...I think that God's main concern is how we treat others)

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Our whole experience with God has to do with faith. Not proof, how can we prove that God is? Do you believe God created science and knowledge?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

If you will remember on the day of Pentecost, the listeners understood in their own languages. Which were unknown to the speakers.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

My "tongues" don't sound like most others in my church so who did I learn them from or memorize subconsciously?

The bible never says tongues are always known languages. Why would a linguist recognize them?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Why would the language portion of our brain be working when it's the Spirit and not us anyways?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

CC1 you were totally wrong :laffatu

As I totally found Cindy's 3 sentence response very thought provoking, as she reminded me of something I already knew but had forgotten.

I told my husband long ago, to never expect any fancy apologetics from me, that I believe in God because I choose to.

(It was just a little easier to choose to before ;) )

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

I think it was that all known languages have a distinctive pattern of breaks and repeating syllables, and that tongues didn't follow this?

Good point. It would be interesting to go back and find what parts of the brain were in use at that time.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Michlow, If you don’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then I don’t believe anyone can say anything to show you the truth about the Holy Ghost, or even God.

You are in a place where you are only believing man, and science.

I read a scientific article also, and what I got from it. They had people to speak/pray in Unknown Tongues, (when you have the gift of unknown tongues—you can speak anytime that you want to or you can keep quiet.)

And also had people pray in their normal languages.

And what they got from it, they naturally could tell, by the brain waves that the people praying in their normal language was thinking and using their mind to do so,.

The people praying in unknown tongues showed their brain at rest. Only God could do that. If they were thinking, or trying to remember a forgotten language, it would have been shown by the brain waves.

What are people speaking when they speak in Other Tongues?----foreign languages.
What are people speaking when they speak in Unknown tongues? ...

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

I do want to put one more scripture on here,...

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Learned Behavior I can pull Youtube video to prove... As far as 1 corinthians 14:2 why would someone want to speak mysteries in the Spirit. Again read all scripture just not what supports your teaching I will bold again as on the other thread

14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Do you believe everything posted on YouTube is true?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Michlow, good to see you again after so long. There are many christians who don't take the bible literally, mainly the mainline churches like episcopal and methodists. You can search "progressive christianity" for more info. I don't have a comment about tongues except to say that my personal experience is authentic to me and no one can convince me otherwise. I remember your discussions in the past about the problem of evil in the world and violence in the OT. I just wanted to share 2 ministries on apologetics that I discovered recently and have learned a lot from. Most ministries aren't very deep in substance and knowledge, but these 2 are very substantive if you have time to check them out. 1 is ravi zacharias: http://www.rzim.org/ and the 2nd is william lane craig: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/ both ministries have 2 podcasts. A daily podcast and a weekly podcast. You can search their media page or subscribe in itunes. zacharias is more philosophical and craig is more scientific. whichever you prefer or both. Wish you the best. God Bless.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Hey Mich, what are you trying to say? :kickcan

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

And your point is?

RW wrote,
Again read all scripture just not what supports your teaching I will bold again as on the other thread

Well RW, I could have given her tons of scriptures that support what I am teaching. But do you remember, she didn’t want scriptures, so I was trying to keep it low key.

In the scriptures in your Post, Paul was giving them instructions of how to handle the gifts of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 12-14, especially prophesying and speaking in other tongues, because the person that has these gifts can use them, at appropriate times, or they can keep quiet.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

My son has a Bachelor's Degree in Biochemistry and is well versed in scientific hypothesis, theories and actual scientific evidence or proof.

Many of these studies have not passed the real test of proof and remain in the 'theory' stage. Many of these studies are skewed and are concluded by someone's scientific 'opinion' and are presented to the public as positive proof of whichever topic they are studying. The conclusion they hope to insert into people's mind is how they present their so called studies about anything they can to "disprove" the existence of God.

Look at all the 'man-made' global warming theories being put forth in the media by 'scientists', when there are triple the amount of scientists saying global warming in this context is a hoax. In only a few studies does it come out about the H.A.A.R.P. project that they use for weather/climate experiments. It comes out as conclusive 'evidence' without informing the public about all the facts used based in their studies, such as the existence of H.A.A.R.P. If they would leave things alone, we would have normal weather with warming and cooling cycles that correspond with our sun. By leaving things alone and not doing any H.A.A.R.P. experiments, they can more accurately ascertain climate patterns.

While science has proven certain things through the study of fossils and electrical manipulation experiments, as well as through mathematical hypothesis, it is not 100% foolproof studies. There are many things that they simply cannot explain through their studies.

How can God be scientifically studied when most of us know very little about the being we call God? The best the scientific community can do is to take various things/people/plants/animals and try to disprove that God created these entities.

I've lived my life pondering much of medical science. I wonder at the studies mankind has done on the human body. Such precise electrical conductivity in the body as well as osmosis and perfect cooperation within the body itself for cells and tissues to communicate with each other.

Take the small example of arterial blood gases for instance. We can draw out a small sample of arterial blood (as opposed to venous blood) to measure how much oxygen, carbon dioxide, HCO3 (bicarbonate or a 'buffer' the kidneys in the body produces for the fluid pH balance) and base ex that determines the pH of the blood. A normal pH for a healthy person is within the range of 7.35-7.45. Any variance in these variables either high or low indicates a disease process going on within the body from one or more organs. Now, I find it impossible that from this one test alone, that a human body could just be so finely tuned and in concert with the entire organism to happen by just "evolving" into this. I've come to the conclusion from the hundreds of other processes of the human body I've learned that there has to be a supreme being that knew all of these processes thousands of years ago to fitly frame the human body for all functions to work together so precisely.

Look at the flower. How can just one species of a flower 'just evolve' into what it is and reproduce itself and only itself. Science has now cracked the genetic codes in many of our food sources and learned to manipulate this process and produce genetically modified organisms that are not safe for the human body to assimilate because it does not recognize the amino acid sequences.

I quit attending UPC churches (except occasionally) for the last 20 years.
I've found myself in some occasions where my situation was prolonged and impossible to overcome...on my own. It was after all I could do to resolve the issue that I turned to God using effective and fervent prayer full of faith that God quickly, sometimes within just a few days resolve my situation. This defies logic that my situation resolved itself when I was in a literal hell trying to resolve it on my own for a year and nothing happened. But as soon as I prayed fervently to God and believing, knowing that I could not do anything about the situation on my own, it was resolved through a rapidly changing process in just a few days.

Sometimes we just have to 'prove' God in different ways than to have His existence hinge on one thing that happened to us from way back.

Sometimes we just have to believe that God is, always has been and always will be ... God.

As for the 'rulebook'. History has shown that men have used and manipulated the Bible to obtain and retain power for so many centuries/milleniums, that it is easy to wonder about God's very existence because of misuse and the 'rule makers using the book' not apply those rules to themselves.

I do not let another human being's actions determine the existence of God, no matter how much they want to shout at me, curse me, or prophecy their thoughts against me because I know who my real advocate to the Father is.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

RW wrote,
. .

How can you prove the things of God on Utube?

To answer your question, I’ll ask another one, Why pray?

Praying in tongues should mostly be done at home.
Sometimes we don’t know how we should pray, and the Holy Ghost thru the gift of unknown tongues prays thru us. That is what Rom 8 is telling us.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

That is what Paul is also teaching them in 1 Cor 12-14

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Paul said that he spoke in tongues more than them all, but “in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”

So where did Paul speak in tongues? Along the road, as he was traveling, anytime that he was alone, in the middle of the night. Why would he do that?

1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

That word “edifieth” means to build up. And we are talking about spiritual things here, it builds a person up in the Spirit. We all need that. Jude says the same.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Unknown tongues, in church, is different.
Talking in unknown tongues, is a mystery in itself. It comes from God and NO MAN understands the language.

However, God has taken care of that. One of the Gifts is the gift of interpretation. (Not translation word for word) but God gives the one with the gift of interpretation, an interpretation of what the message is about, that the one has just brought forth in tongues.
When this happens, then it is prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

AreYou Ready----GREAT POST.------

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

To those who speak in tongues it is spiritual. To those who don't they will assume it is learned behavior.

Either way, if you have not spoken in tongues you do not have the Gift of the Holy Ghost. If you do not have the Holy Ghost you are lost. So if you believe it's spiritual you need the Holy Ghost. If you don't believe it's spiritual, you still need the Holy Ghost.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Per your Quote Renee "That word “edifieth” means to build up. And we are talking about spiritual things here, it builds a person up in the Spirit". We all need that. Jude says the same.

Scripture clearly states that your Spirit is not built up cause in verse 2 it states howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries

Now how is your Spirit going to be built up if speaking mysteries to it.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Re-read what you wrote and proof-read. "in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" and "speaking mysteries to it [your spirit]" are two different phrases with totally different meanings.

The Bible says the man speaks mysteries "in the spirit" not "to his spirit". You're not speaking to yourself when you speak in tongues:

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

Therefore your question is moot.

How do tongues edify or build us up? It is prayer and communication to God, why wouldn't it edify or build us up?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Let's also take the scientific studies about vitamins.

There was one study in particular about Vitamin E. A long time ago they did studies about how vitamin E is an important anti oxidant and beneficial to the heart...the entire body for good health.

Then some years later the 'scientific' community came out that taking prolonged dose of vitamin E could be lethal.

Why such a discrepancy? Because there are supplemental industries out there who make synthetic isomer vitamins and pass them off as natural. The human body cannot use a synthetic vitamin and the ingredients (some of which contain petroleum) either deposits somewhere into the body or passes on through. So buying synthetic vitamins is like pouring new wine into old skins. It just goes on through without any benefit. Scientific studies do not alway reveal how they study a case. In this case, they studied what a synthetic vitamin E will do to a body, but did not specify to the public the difference between natural and synthetic vitamin E and why they used the synthetic version in this particular study.

Why they did not reveal this important factor is known only to the one doing the study. The public does not have the knowledge of the differences in this vitamin.

Here is what an expert has to say about this 'scientific study'.

Finally, not one of the studies used natural kind of vitamin e antioxidant. Vitamin E Antioxidant is a mix of tocopherols: alpha, beta, gamma and delta. Only alpha- tocopheral was applied. Not only that, nevertheless the synthetic isomeric form, D, L-alpha tocopherol was applied in the majority of the studies. Natural vitamin e antioxidant will come in only the D isomeric form. The synthetic L form is not produced in character and can hinder the benefits of natural D form.

http://yournutritiontips.com/vitamin-lethal/


My point to all this is:

It is always wise to study out and listen to several points of view both pro and con for any particular study and decide for yourself who presents a more accurate information.

Those who do not believe in a Supreme Creator can and do skew studies to prove their point.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

To study the activity of the brain one has to be hooked to some sort of machine to measure this activity during a time when one is speaking in tongues.

I have a seriously problem believing that God is going to move on someone while being a part of some experiment to detect his presence.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Great observation! If we have to resort to the scientific to believe what we believe about our experience with God.... we are of all men most miserable.

1 Cor. 1:22-23 "For the Jews require a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness."

Signs, and wisdom does not get you anywhere in your search. Ask the Pharisees. Ask the Greeks.

What does it require? Faith. "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than man." and... "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise."

Michelow:

As long as you are trying to understand God using only man's wisdom, you will never find Him, or truly know Him.

So in your search for the truth of tongues, ultimately, it comes down to you, and your relationship with God. Are you trying to determine God exists by standing on a "sign" like the Jews (or tongues to be more specific), or are you trying to determine if God exists using man's wisdom? Neither works.

Without faith... it is impossible to please God.

Does the fish swimming in the sea question whether the sea exists in which he is swimming? Does he stop swimming, and decide to stop breathing, simply because he doesn't believe that the sea he is swimming in exists? No, he keeps on swimming, day by day, even though he doesn't understand the complexities that make up the sea he lives in.

Just as that little fish swimming in the sea... we are humans living in a world created by God. Do we stop what we are doing, and say I am going to stop breathing today, because I don't understand how this world got here? No, of course not.

You see.... it takes faith just to live.

We exercise faith every day. Every one of us do. We have faith in the pilot of the airplane when we board. We have faith that the chef in the restaurant would know how to cook the food we are eating. We have faith that the car we get in to drive will fire up and drive away as we push the gas pedal. We have faith that the bridge we drove over had an engineer who knew how to design it so it wouldn't collapse. We have faith that the banker will take our money today, and give it back to us tomorrow. .....

My point being this... Faith is necessary to even exist in this world... so why is it so hard to have faith in the GOD that created all of us, who we still cannot even comprehend, or describe?

Have you read the book of Job recently? It's a great place to start to rebuild your faith in the creator of this universe ....

Will be praying that you find the answers you are searching for in the post of this thread.

And by the way, your little girl, is absolutely beautiful!

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Scotty wrote,
.

Scotty, if we were talking about receiving the Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues, your Post would be right on. People can not do that at any time.

However, when a person has the Gift of unknown tongues, they can speak those unknown tongues any time that they want to.

I know by experience. I got the Holy Ghost when I was a teen. Ever once in a while in serious prayer, maybe 2 or 3 times a yr. I would get a refilling.

About 5 yrs later, one night at church, we were all praising God around the alter. I rasised my hands and was praising God, when all of a sudden I started speaking in tongues. Well I kept on and on, as long as everyone was praying. After we got home, I put my family to bed and went into the living room and knelt down and started speaking in tongues again, Seems that I never could get finished, I spoke until 1or 2 am.

For several days, anytine I would think about it and start praying, I would speak in tongues. Day and night, I didn’t know what it was.
Finally I went to my Pastor and asked, Bro ----- What would make a person start speaking in tongues just any time, and never feel like they were finished?

He looked at me kinda odd and said, “Sister, I don’t know why anyone would do that.”
Later, after I studied my Bible and found out that what I had was the gift of tongues, I was surprised that my Pastor didn’t know the difference.
I am still surprised that many Pentecostal’s don’t know the difference in Speaking in Other tongues and the Gift of tongues.

You slow or whot? She doesn't believe that the bible is inspired by God. But, tongues proved the existence of God to her.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Man I have to say you old time Upc'ers are something else,you guys are really stuck in your ways like talkng to a brick wall. I am still tring to figure out how you get 2sets of tongues out of the bible....It was a gift in Acts and it was the same gift in Corithians,but highly abused just like in the Churches today to bad Paul is not around to regulate like he did in Corithians.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Does she still smoke cigarettes? :heeheehee

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Two types of tongues?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Yea the unknown tongues whereever those are in the bible and the other tongues the tongues in Acts and Corithians.Renee has a post on it down under the Salvation thread..But Exegetical and historical evidence suggest they are the same tongues in both Acts and Corithians

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

On the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, their were two groups, both groups heard two different things come out of the apostles.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

This is a good read.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/ar...oftongues.html

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

I have not read any other posts in this thread yet other than your initial one and my response but I find your post here incredibly sad. I don't mean that in a mean way or a condescending way just with a heavy heart that this is where you have ended up. God loves you and despite what you now say the Bible is God's word and applies to your life.

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Amen. :highfive

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

Your spirit or your mind?

The bible does not say HOW one is edified. It just says they are

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

What is the exegetical and historical evidence?

BTW that tongues in Acts and in Corinthians are the same goes not make them the same in purpose or operation.

Yes both are Tongues. Yes both are by the Spirit. However...

In Acts at least once they were understood
They were never interpreted
They were always someone receiving the Spirit for the first time and part of an evangelistic mode rather than a church meeting mode except Pentecost, which turned Evangelistic.
Despite no interpreters, in none of the cases in Acts were they compelled to be quite. In fact had they been quite it would not have been noised abroad.

Sure both are tongues. But that does not make them the same GIFT

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

MICH!!!!!!! I have missed you. I haven't been on here much in the past year or so, but it's good to see your post and know that you're alive and kickin'. Glad to hear you have a baby girl - congratulations!

As to your post itself, you have been on a spiritual quest for a very long time. I pray that God reveals Himself to you in such a real way that you will have no doubts. All of Christianity is based on FAITH - the evidence of things not seen. Without faith, it will never be real to you, because it can't be proven logically. God can't be explained.

Anyway, it's good to hear from you again!:thumbsup

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

1. I'm not an "UPCer" I was saved in the PAW and raised in the COGIC.
2. I STILL don't understand how you get "speaking to his spirit mysteries" out of "in the spirit he speaketh mysteries". Care to explain?

Re: Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?
 

The bible does not say tongues was a gift in Acts. In Acts the Holy Spirit was a gift and the word for GIFT is not the same as the word for gift in Corinthians.