Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Maybe it's just been my personal observation, but why does there seem to be an epidemic of churches that have been "kept in the family" for so many generations, and pastored by a succeeding line of male heirs?

I'm not saying this trend doesn't happen among other denominations, but it seems to be more prevalent among Apostolic fellowships.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

I think the answer is obvious. But most people won't say that out loud.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

One possible reason may stem from how churches got started...as home missions where the only people the Pastor had to help was his family

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Will you say it out loud, because it's not obvious to me.

I don't get it.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

It happens in all religions, and all cultures, where people build something, or start a movement.

Nepotism is big in the LDS church, in many Masjids, also Synagogues.

No, no. Everyone's problems and everything wrong with the world begins with the UPCI.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

That my brother, seems to be the whipping boy of choice around here. :beatdeadhorse

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

...i wonder why...

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

No it's not.

See I said it therefore it must be true...:heeheehee

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Follow the M.O.N.E.Y. Many of those churches are already supporting the adult PKs and if the church goes to someone else they can't keep the money in the family... Although I don't think apostolics are the only offenders by far... I mean look at Lakewood.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

:)

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

There is a lot of truth to this.

In a small town near me, some years ago, the pastor dropped dead from a brain aneurysm. It was a shock because he was quite young. There were several seasoned ministers who attended church there and each one was interested in applying for the pastorate position. Each one went through all the motions and the sermons. In the end, his widow, bless her heart, made the statement that she felt like the church should be kept in the family. She actually said it and quite a few there reacted as if she slapped each of them in the face because it was supposed to be Christ's church and they all contributed their finances, sweat, and time into building that church. The pastorate ended up going to her son-in-law, who was a novice in all areas of ministering.

I often wondered what type of board they had that would acquiesce to this.

Oh and one last thing....this was not a UPC church, but another Apostolic Church. I don't think Brother Dante ever mentioned UPC in his opening post.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

In every single Apostolic/UPC/ALJC church I've attended, nepotism has been the norm. Every.single.one.

My UPC uncle is now the "senior" pastor while his son-in-law is now the pastor.

Church I grew up in - same thing. Pastor will be handing church over to one of his sons. Only problem is, both sons want the pastorate, no one knows how that will go. There are no board members involved in that church. It is completely run by the pastor.

Another family member attends an independent Apostolic church where the pastor died at a young age of cancer. The church was interested in having other pastor come and try out for the church, but on his death bed, the dying pastor said the Lord told him his 19-year-old son, who had only once ever even preached - was to be the new pastor. That church is in a disastrous state today. No board members in this church either. The saints are at the mercy of the pastor's decisions.

So, in my books, in every experience I have had with the Apostolic/UPC/ALJC church... nepotism has reigned.

This is not to say that it isn't present in other denominations, but it is no doubt a serious problem within apostolic church ranks.

Bottom line... I agree with T2W - follow the MONEY!

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

You do realize that there is only one way to solve that particular issue......

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/2268286_o.gif

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Heh. Where can we find Spock?

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

It's easier. It doesn't have anything to do with the call of God, in my opinion. It's supposed to be about who God wants in the pulpit, but I think it's more often about keeping things in the family, having Dad's wishes kept up with and all that.

Can you imagine a Dad, getting ready to retire and he has a son who has worked with Dad for years who is just primed and ready to take over. And then, Dad has a dream about some random Home Missions pastor from timbucktoo pastoring and really feels like it is God's will. So Dad says he feels like it is God's will to let him run against said son. The HM pastor gets voted in by a narrow margin. Scandal! I wonder how well that would go over.

Like I said, it's easier than doing it any other way. And I think that's the real reason. That said, that doesn't mean the son is NOT ever God's will, but he sure is "God's will" an incredibly often amount of time. When my husband and I were in the UPC as first generationers, it felt quite unfair. We worked hard for everything we got and then were pretty much kicked in the teeth for a reward. Oh well. The past is over.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Hmm; I'm going with "follow the $."

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Anoher example of how far we are from biblical eldership

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

heehe... so your theory is... may the best man win?

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Hmm, how far they are, maybe; but this needn't apply to anyone who doesn't wish to be applied to it. There are several pastors who accept NO MONEY for their work, from big televangels to little home church guys. When one has realized that they will never find a pastor who believes exactly like they do, one becomes free to follow Christ.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Here we go...

EVERY SINGLE APOSTOLIC CHURCH I HAVE BEEN TO SOMETHING IS WRONG!!

:heeheehee

I can name the first three churches I've attended in my life, and can hands down say that problem absolutely does not exist.

Greater Morning Star Apostolic Ministries was the most recent and the one who's history I know off hand.

First pastor was a women missionary who established the church 74 years ago.
Second pastor Bishop Ramsey Butler. No relation to first pastor.
Third Pastor who I served under for years Bishop Charles E. Johnson. No relation to second pastor.
Current assistant pastor is no way related to him, and his only son who is a pastor currently serves a youth pastor at another church in DC.

The church I go to now just had their old pastor retire and brought in a new pastor from Arizona. He has no children working in the ministry at the church.

It's really not the UPC's fault you chose bad churches.:thumbsup

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

I see it a lot in both the UPC and exUPC churches. At Christ Church Nashville at least neither son was in ministry so that church was spared that eventuality. Of course they are experiencing it now to a degree with the current Sr. pastor as his SIL is the Asst. Pastor and is one of the most boring preachers I have ever heard. CC went from an abundance of great pulpiteers a few years ago with Dan Scott, Phil Goldsberry, and Paul Russell to this sad situation. Nepotism. Hate it.

Bottom line is that God's work is NOT a family business. I find it amusing when preachers try to justify that path by comparing it to the Old Testament tribe of Levites. Good Grief (as Cindy would say).

UPDATE: After typing this post I went to the CC website and don't see the SIL listed on staff. Hmmmm......will have to check this out. Maybe he left.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

All three UPC churches that I have attended have been handed down to the son. One resulted in a church split when the father (as senior pastor) and son couldn't agree.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

I would have a hard time attending a family runned church business.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

So, is it always wrong to pass the church on to a family member?

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Who's to say that God's choice doesn't just happen to be the previous pastor's son? And if it happens about a zillion times more often than random chance -- God's ways are not man's ways! :lol

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

:toofunny

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Maybe they just run their church like a business.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Of course, Cindy. They have to in order to get the 501 C 3 tax breaks. :toofunny

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

I have always said nepotism is ok as long as you keep it in the family!

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

From what I witnessed from one church I attended for a short period, the pastor often reminded the saints how he came to the town with his wife and baby and started the church from scratch.....on and on. This gets reinforced over several years to the point where anyone attending there expects wife, sons and daughters to take positions as they become older.

Anybody want to guess who will be the next pastor in the big church in
Little Rock, AR? Mmm, let me see.

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

Daniel Alicia?

Re: Nepotism: An Apostolic Paradigm?
 

My guess would be Joel Holmes son.