Originally Posted by AreYouReady? (Post 1204548)

According to the article:

"According to newspaper reports and a statement released by IHOP “ Allen Hood, said Deaton was the leader of “an independent, close-knit religious group” that was operating separately from the International House of Prayer “under a veil of secrecy.”

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1204563)

Yes, but IHOP had previously claimed Deaton was an IHOP director of some kind, which was quickly taken off their website when the news broke.

So ... hmmm...

I personally have NO IDEA why anyone would be dumb enough to fall for a 'church' whose teachings include mass fornication and adultery, but hey, that's just me, I guess...

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1204569)

Please document where IHOP'S teachings include mass fornication and adultery.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1204569)

Please document where IHOP'S teachings include mass fornication and adultery.

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1204572)

I never said that about IHOP. I was speaking about the particular group run by Mr Deaton.

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1204573)

I will go under cover to see if the rumor is true.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1204575)

If this was indeed an IHOP group home it is indeed troubling.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 1204567)

Very interesting article. This is one of the reasons why I object to independently run home churches and small groups. There needs to be some collective oversight and accountability, at the very least amongst the leaders (plural) of a "group of groups." It's too easy for someone with a "domineering and charismatic" personality to prey on weak-minded or ignorant people otherwise. Likewise, traditional churches function more healthily when there is plural leadership and elders rather than a single man making all the decisions for a local congregation. I can appreciate independent churches where the pastor stays accountable to a group of elders or peer ministers; I'm highly suspicious of men who want to run the church without being accountable to anyone but God (and I've personally observed the sort of chaos and destruction that results from such a church government). God didn't set it up that way--not for saints or leaders either one.

ANYtime a leader wants to have private meetings that exclude other saints or church leaders, that is a Big Red Flag. I don't care if they're just meeting for prayer and scripture reading. The only reason for secrecy or exclusivity is for the leader of the group to maintain control of the group. Alarm bells should go off at that point.

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1204580)

I don't see how this has much of anything to do with whether or not the group was 'independent'. It has everything do with evil men taking advantage of people. Evil men take advantage of others all the time, in independent settings and in institutional settings. Your comment seems to be saying 'a small independent church is likely to be a hotbed of EEEEVVVVILLLLLL' because there isn't a board of directors or some kind of leadership group in place.

Biblically speaking, the church doesn't have any one man in charge besides Jesus. Every church should have elders, and every Christian should examine what is taught and 'prove all things' by the Scripture.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 1204612)

I didn't say that at all. I object to one-man-rule because it allows for the possibility moreso (IMO) than when leaders are accountable to one another and to members of the church body. When you have a leader who isolates himself from other leaders and members, its more than likely for reasons of maintaining control. There is no need for exclusivity, separation or secrecy within the body of Christ. A lack of accountability among brethren is the breeding ground for false doctrine, cults, one-man-shows and spiritual abuse.

A small independent church in which the leadership is comprised of one man who isn't accountable to either other ministers or his congregation is definitely at risk for corruption. It may never happen, if he is a true Christian and able to submit his will to Christ and lead in a truly Christlike matter, but in my opinion it significantly increases the risk. My opinion is based on both church history and personal observation.

You don't seem to be disagreeing with my post all that much (if at all). I clarified that accountability was important. I never said that churches and groups couldn't be independent. However, there is no need for churches and groups to be exclusive, secretive, unaccountable, or separated from the body of Christ as a whole. If that is what YOU mean by independent, then we do disagree. Strongly. I also disagree that leaders are only supposed to be accountable to God. God intended for Christians to be in close fellowship with one another as much as with Him, and leaving that component out of the Christian church is another way for individuals to maintain control (either personally or over others) instead of allowing Him to have control.

One man rule is just as wrong in a small group setting as it is for a large, traditional church.



Perhaps. Or maybe their wives submitted out of ignorance, thinking that they had to obey God and therefore blindly obey their husbands. (I don't think that's the logical conclusion of marital submission, mind you--but it's a rabbit trail that Christian women wander down quite often--in a sincere attempt to obey God's commandments.)



If you haven't met Christians who are that weak minded and easily influenced, then you must not get out much. The NT talks about people who are weak or those who are "feebleminded." I believe that the structure of the NT church is set up to protect all saints, including those who are weak in the faith and even those who may be weak emotionally or mentally.



They probably do. :) God loves saints who are no more than simple minded sheep with simple minded faith just as much as he loves the ones with high IQ's.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1204615)

No woman or child should be in a men's group home!

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1204614)

I'm pretty sure we agree more than disagree, sister. BUT, although I have met quite a few 'ignorant' and 'weak' people, I have never met anyone that I can honestly say would believe a preacher was a man of God and telling the truth if he told them 'God wants us to swap wives and yada yada yada'.

Furthermore, I doubt those people were illiterate and without any internet access or access to a Bible of some kind.

I am reminded of this scripture tho...


<< 2 Timothy 3 >>
King James Version
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

Originally Posted by kclee4jc (Post 1204638)

Saw this at work this AM. Very sad. I like some of IHOP's teaching and music.

Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1204683)

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ttorney-claims

Updated at 4:06 p.m. ET: An attorney for a Kansas City man charged with killing the wife of his prayer group leader said Wednesday that he made up his confession after other group members dropped him off at a police station.

Attorney Melanie Morgan said 23-year-old Micah Moore was distraught over the death of 27-year-old Bethany Deaton when he confessed to killing her and made a series of stunning allegations detailed by police in a criminal complaint.

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1204717)

You can't really judge the organization by the actions of a few loonies.

I believe Jim Jones was affiliated with Oneness Pentecostals at one time, wasn't He?

Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 1204759)

Right... I think he was affiliated with Christianity at one time as well...