A thought on tithing
 

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a thought on tithing






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Re: A thought on tithing
 

I don't know where you stand on the subject Sam, but I have found in my lifetime people who practice tithing tend to be pretty generous, giving people anyway, and people who bristle at the notion tend to be tight wads with very little generosity in their spirit. It's just an observation. I'm sure there are exceptions.

Anyone who feels like they "have to give their tithes" to anything or anyone misses the point. I gladly give a tenth of my income plus more to the One who it all belongs to.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

I've always had a problem with giving ALL of the tithes to one person when that isn't how it was done in the OT. The money was used for other purposes, but now one man gets all of that benefit. Other organizations use tithing for church purposes. When we gave in the Catholic Church, it wasn't just for the priest, it was for operating expenses of the church as well. Why don't Apostolics copy that example? Seems there would be less need for fun raising.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Personally, I think tithing was part of the Old Covenant that has been replaced by the New Covenant. The tithes in the Old Testament were used to feed the Levites and Priests, to help the widows and orphans, and for party money when you made your trip to Jerusalem. In my opinion under the new covenant we are owned completely by Jesus Christ so everything we have is His. We are to use money, time, talents, etc. wisely since they are only loaned/entrusted to us.

I do not write a check each month for 10 percent of my pension and Social Security checks (actually direct deposit) to my local church. However over the period of each month more than 10 percent goes to the Lord's work.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Honestly I've been blessed when I've tithed and when I haven't...just because I wasn't tithing at one point or another doesn't mean I wasn't giving or was being stingy.I can't believe the position of being cursed or being in sin because if I don't tithe.I have to take Sams position...the early church wasn't limiting themselves to 10% they were giving as they were led by the Spirit out of love without fear of curses or judgement.After studying what tithes were and what they WERE NOT in context to the law and the culture I've come to the conclusion that I would rather be led by the Spirit in my giving and not out of a feeling of fear or obligation.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Excellent post!

Re: A thought on tithing
 

For some the problem isn't tithing, but where to give the tithe. Abraham gave it to Melchizedek, others later gave it to the levitical priesthood, now we have a great high priest, after the order of Melchizedek to give the tithe to.

How do we pay tithes to JESUS?

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Hi seekerman,

Apparently, to his representatives:

"So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." (1 Cor 9:14 NASU)

"So also" referring back to the preceding verse 13:

"Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar?"

Paul uses the general principle of tithing in support of the Lord's command for ministerial maintenance. Although we are no longer under the Levitical priesthood, we are under the Melchisedec priesthood, and that priesthood also received tithes of men (Abraham, Levi et all: Heb 7:9).

Re: A thought on tithing
 

The tithe was an agrarian land tax in ancient Israel to support the Levites. Christians didn't "tithe" in the NT. They gave as they felt led to give to meet needs. Many gave EVERYTHING for the Lord's work in the beginning. After that people began to give as they had purposed in their hearts. And yes, full time workers in the Gospel were supported. But remember, that would be supplies, clothing, travel (perhaps a horse), etc. They didn't sit pretty in a nice cushy chair on a platform receiving tithe check$ from the congregation.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

I agree that we are under the Melchizedektic priesthood, but that priesthood exists today in the person of Jesus Christ. We, as followers of Christ, are also partakers of that priesthood and it isn't limited to those who call themselves preachers, pastors, bishops or priests.

There is no temple today in which to perform sacred services nor is there a literal altar on which to offer animal sacrifice unto God. A building isn't the 'house of God' nor is the clergy a continuation of the levitical priesthood with it's various rituals and ordinances.

Giving isn't the issue with me, it's the issue of WHERE to tithe. How does one give the tithe to the great Melchizedektic high priest? I'm His representative, you're His representative. How do we determine who receives the tithe as unto Jesus?

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Abrahams tithe is a poor example because it was spoils of war and what he paid the tenth on wasn't even his possessions but the king of sodom.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Good rebuttal by seekerman, Dave. I'd like to hear your response. Thanks!

Re: A thought on tithing
 

:stirpot

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Well, in Acts 9:4, Jesus asked Paul, "Why are you persecuting me?"
Jesus had previously said, "he who receives you, receives me" (Matthew 10:40)
Paul said that we sin against Christ when we sin against a brother (1 Corinthians 8:12)
And there is also Matthew 25:31-46 where it says that when we feed the hungry we are feeding Jesus, etc.

So I guess we pay a tithe to Jesus when we pay it to one of His people.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Abraham spending someone else's money sounds like our government spending someone else's money.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Religious tax? Lol and jacob is a poor example for tithing as well because its before the law and it was a conditional vow...the condition was that IF God blessed him...not whether He blessed him or not.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

and Jacob was gone for 21 years after that and we never read whether he tithed or not

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Does a father tax his own son?

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Tithing was practiced BEFORE the law(430 years in fact).
Tithing was practiced DURING the law.
Tithing was commanded by Jesus.
Tithing was practice by the early church.
I have tithed all my life in the church God has blessed me. AND I have given freewill offerings and helped the poor.
God has been good to me. No complaints.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Tithing may have been practiced by Jewish believers early on but Gentiles*Strangers* were exempt from the tithe as well as those living outside the borders of Israel.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

We do and have always tithed. I just don't understand how the tithe is the same in the NT, giving all to one person.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Hello Pressing-On and seekerman,

I was short on time yesterday afternoon and this morning, but hopefully by this evening I'll be able to post a response. Thanks for your input seekerman, those are all good points that I'd like to address. :)

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Thanks, Dave. I always like to read what you have to say.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

I think the illustration here misses the point. Abraham tithed not because he had to but because he WANTED to. We should have the WANT to and not the have to. (especially if Christians claim to also be the spiritual seed of Abraham.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

No one teaches biblical tithing.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

It's funny... massive charities rely on voluntary cash and material donations. But churches don't have the faith that Christian believers will voluntarily offer cash and material donations to meet the church's needs if they are made known.

:(

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Hello seekerman,
While it is true that, as believers, we are now part of a royal priesthood (1Pet 2:5, 9; Rev 1:6; 5:10), it appears we will not reign with Christ as kings and priests until his thousand year reign (Rev. 20:6).

I want to first address your comment by saying I am not advocating that Christians today participate in the Levitical tithing system. Why? Because there is no longer a Levitical priesthood to receive a Levitical tithe. There is no temple; there are no Levitical cities. All of this has now been replaced by the Melchisedec priesthood (Heb 7:12, 18). Again, I absolutely agree that the Levitical tithing system is no longer valid.

Having said that, I do believe there is a NT tithing system, and this tithe is SEPARATE AND APART FROM the Law. And I believe this is what Paul was arguing for in 1Cor 9.

I think Paul tells us very specifically who this goes to in 1Cor 9:14-

"So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." (1Cor 9:14 NASU)

houtoos kai (“even so”- KJV) is variously rendered “so also” (NASU, YLT) or “in the same way” (NLT, ESV, NIV, CJB, TLB, NCV, RSV). It means that the precepts or maxims which preceded this statement are to serve as the pattern, manner and example for that which follows:

ho Kurios dietaxen (“hath the Lord ordained”): dietaxen is third person singular aorist active indicative of diatasso. This verb appears sixteen times in the NT, and is variously rendered in the KJV as “command”, “appoint”, “ordain”, “set in order”, or “give order”. Other translations: “directed” (NASU, CJB, YLT), “ordered” (NLT), “commanded” (ESV, NIV, NCV, RSV), or “given orders” (TLB). It is used to convey a directive or commandment.

In this verse, the Apostle Paul is saying that the Lord has issued a commandment that they who preach the gospel should live (literally) “out of the gospel” (ek tou euangeliou zeen), and they should do so based directly upon the pattern, manner and example which precedes this verse, specifically, verse 13:

"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1 Cor 9:13 KJV).

Paul makes his appeal to the principle behind the Levitical tithing system to support his argument. Just as the Levitical priests lived of the offerings at the altar, "even so" should they who preach the gospel live by similar means.

The command for this to take place is issued to the church; the recipients are they who preach the gospel.

Your thoughts?

Re: A thought on tithing
 

The point I as attempting to make is that there is no priesthood distinction between believers as it was in the OT system. For example, there is no difference between the priesthood of a pastor and the priesthood of the saint sitting on the pew. The OT tithing system supported the priesthood as well as the temple, neither of which exist today and cannot be tithed into today. The issue is where to pay the tithe in the view that the OT system is dead and gone.

Yes, I agree, the ministry should be supported by the giving/tithing of the saints. The question then becomes, what is the ministry? I'm not attempting to make this any more complicated than what it is, but is ministry the actions of building bigger and elaborate buildings in which the church is to meet? I don't think that's ministry at all. I wouldn't tithe into that.

Is the ministry the actions of individuals who interact with Christ by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked? In my opinion, if one wishes to interact intimately with Jesus and the Melchizedektic priesthood with his or her tithe, feed the hungry, clothe the naked. When you do this, you're doing it directly to Jesus per scripture.

I believe ministry includes, as you have pointed out, proclaiming the gospel. The problem is, what ministers are to be supported and in what level of support are they to receive? My background is oneness Pentecostalism. In that religious system I saw the pastor receive the tithe for proclaiming the gospel while the Sunday school teachers, the song leader, the musicians offering their ministry for free. Are we to tithe to the singers who sing the gospel or the teachers who teach the gospel or just tithe to the person who lives in the building based church system (which has no scriptural support at all).

So, it's not an easy matter at times to know WHERE to pay one's tithe. It's certainly not simply to a man who calls himself a minister or preacher who's involved in an unscriptural religious system.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Very clear and correct by the way. Get your shield the God robbers are coming.:yourock

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Nehemiah placed other Levites over the tithing chamber to disburst the money. Thus someone has to take charge that the work of God is taken care of. A real pastor will see these needs are met you mention. However the singers & muscians though at blessing are not those who sow-thresh-reap. They do not PREACH the gospel only those who PREACH the gospel are ordained to live OF the gospel.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Since the Apostle Paul was conveying the command to the church, I do not think it unreasonable to suggest that the tithe be paid into the church for the support of the ministry. It appears that, at least in Corinth, Paul alludes to Peter, James & Jude, and other Apostles receiving support from the church when they ministered there (vs.5, 12). At this time in church history, there probably was not a monarchical episcopate yet established at Corinth.

These are all valid points, and I would agree that there have been, and continue to be, abuses as to how the tithe is distributed. NT senior pastors/bishops will be held just as accountable as OT pastors (Jer 23; Ezek 34) for how they stewarded the flock of God.

How should the tithe be distributed?

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. (1 Peter 5:1-3)

As to church buildings? For me personally, I see a difference between letting God's glory fill the house, and the house being built and decorated for its own glory. In medieval times, cathedrals & tabernacles were constructed to inspire awe and fear in the hearts of attendants. I prefer to see the Holy Ghost do that. ;)

Re: A thought on tithing
 

:toofunny

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Thank you.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

:thumbsup

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Thank you for taking the time to respond. After reading your post and after reflecting a bit, I am wondering why, if Paul puts forth this teaching as a "command" for tithing, would he throw a little wrench in the system and claim that he excludes himself from this "command". It seems as though that could cause a bit of confusion for others toward this transitional teaching. In the OT, no one was able to be excluded - it was a "command".


Do you think that your point that I highlighted is a reasonable stand to take after reading Galatians 6:6? It appears to me that the idea is to "provide" for them in the way that tithing did in the OT, but not necessarily is setting up a tithing system in the NT.

"Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them." (NIV)

communicate unto him — “impart a share unto his teacher” - JFB

"In all good things - In everything that is needful for their comfortable subsistence. On the duty here enjoined see the notes at 1Co_9:11-13." - Barnes

"Communicate unto him that teacheth - Contribute to the support of the man who has dedicated himself to the work of the ministry, and who gives up his time and his life to preach the Gospel. It appears that some of the believers in Galatia could receive the Christian ministry without contributing to its support. This is both ungrateful and base." - Gill

I attended both the Catholic and Baptist Church, at different points in my life, and it seems more reasonable to give to the support of the church, who then pays it out to where it needs to go. Because, again, the tithing (if we want to go that direction for the NT church) did not support one person, it supported the whole Levitical system.

Sorry, Brother Epley, but I just want to ask! :heeheehee

Re: A thought on tithing
 

No doubt the church supported the ministry in their giving, I agree on that. The problem, and it's a critical one, is concerning just exactly what the church was that gave support to the ministry.

The concept of what the church is, is tremendously flawed in modern day Christianity in my opinion. While the protestants may have separated themselves from much of the Roman Catholic teachings, one major error was keeping the building-based religious system of Roman Catholicism. When Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, he was writing to a group of believers, called out ones, the ekklesia. He wasn't writing concerning the support a building-based religious system with the building being labeled the church. It's so ingrained within the mindset of Christians that they never stop and think about calling a building a church. Oneness Pentecostals take it a step lower many times by labeling a building as 'bro so-and-so's church'.

Does the bible teach there is such a building-based system in which to pay tithes. Not at all, in fact it's just the opposite. Paul touched on it in Galatians concerning those who were wishing to enter into something God has completely and totally destroyed. Christianity continues to attempt to set up the tithe supported priesthood and temple and call it ministry and the building a church or temple, or house of God. It simply isn't to be that way though.

So, tithing into a building-based 'church' system isn't really tithing into the church. The question remains, where is one to place their tithe?


Me too. :)

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Tithing does do just that. If I paid evangelists and missionaries what came in the offering only there would be no evangelists & Missionaries. I do not believe a pastor that would hoard up an abundance for himself at the expense of the other ministries it right.

Both in 1 Cor. & Heb. 7 tithing is taught. Since the local church is the base of operations of the church at large it would only be sensible that would act as distribution to the ministry. I will be judged for my stewwardship of HIS money. The tithe is Lord's not mine. I just handle it for Him.

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Is not the HOUSE you are meeting in a building?????????????? Or any other structure? This is so foolish. Listen they recieved the Holy Ghost in the upper room of the Temple, the first notable miracle took place at the Temple where they were going to pray, the Apostles are noted preaching at the Temple. If they have a negative feeling about meeting in a religious place of worship give us chapter and verse?

Re: A thought on tithing
 

Although, at the time the epistle was written, Paul was not exercising his right to ministerial maintenance, we know he wasn't abrogating his right, either, because he had just asserted it (1Cor 9:4, 11-12).

True, but then again, Paul wasn't arguing for the Levitical tithe.

I don't see 1Cor 9:14 and Gal 6:6 as an either/or choice. I believe they both apply, as well as 1Tim 5:17-18 and Heb 13:16.

I agree, even though I believe the Levitical system is no longer valid. Christian tithes should be paid into the church to support the ministry, which includes the Bishop. But it is also the Bishop's responsibility to be a good steward of these finances. As I stated previously, they will give an account of their stewardship.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:31)

A Senior Pastor's FIRST care and responsibility is to the flock of God, not himself. If he truly have a shepherd's heart, then he will place the needs of the flock above his own. That does not mean his own family should be neglected, but if he is in tune, he will know the balance. And I don't believe that means he should necessarily be the poorest in all the house of God, for as Paul said, the workman is worthy of his hire (1Tim 5:18).

Re: A thought on tithing
 

I haven't found any specific verses stating that Christians should avoid using buildings as meeting places. If you've found some, please share. :)