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odooley6985 12-21-2012 02:22 PM
wealth redistribution
 
Why does everyone scream this when the topic of the rich paying more taxes is brought up? Yet when politicians give the rich tax breaks that cost the middle class no one screams this. Why are conservatives always sticking up for the rich even at the expense of them paying more taxes?

Sam 12-21-2012 02:39 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209848)
Why does everyone scream this when the topic of the rich paying more taxes is brought up? Yet when politicians give the rich tax breaks that cost the middle class no one screams this. Why are conservatives always sticking up for the rich even at the expense of them paying more taxes?
Why does any one person in this country make any more than anyone else?
Why aren't all salaries to all people in this country funnelled through the federal government so they can "steal" their portion to feed the bloated bureaucracy and then re-distributed to every person in America whether they work or not? This way everyone from the highest executive to the lowest laborer and all those who could not or would not work would receive equal pay. This would eliminate the 1 percent who are very wealthy and who pay the major share of taxes and would eliminate the 47 percent who pay no federal taxes.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 02:48 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam (Post 1209849)
Why does any one person in this country make any more than anyone else?
Why aren't all salaries to all people in this country funnelled through the federal government so they can "steal" their portion to feed the bloated bureaucracy and then re-distributed to every person in America whether they work or not? This way everyone from the highest executive to the lowest laborer and all those who could not or would not work would receive equal pay. This would eliminate the 1 percent who are very wealthy and who pay the major share of taxes and would eliminate the 47 percent who pay no federal taxes.
They are its called taxes. Seriously though. You have no problem working hard and paying more taxes so someone who makes more money than you, gets a huge tax cut? I am not talking about the 47% who pay no taxes. I am talking middle class vs upper class. Supposedly we are in a progressive tax system. I dont want there money. I really dont. I also dont think they should get mine. Especially all in the name of job creation. I have worked since I was 16. I am 27. For my whole working life I have maybe been unemployed one year. I work for everything. I just think Fox News and other so called conservative media have conditioned people to think that someone that is rich is better than someone who is poor. It blows my mind that middle class people vote and support the GOP

RandyWayne 12-21-2012 03:06 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209851)
They are its called taxes. Seriously though. You have no problem working hard and paying more taxes so someone who makes more money than you, gets a huge tax cut? I am not talking about the 47% who pay no taxes. I am talking middle class vs upper class. Supposedly we are in a progressive tax system. I dont want there money. I really dont. I also dont think they should get mine. Especially all in the name of job creation. I have worked since I was 16. I am 27. For my whole working life I have maybe been unemployed one year. I work for everything. I just think Fox News and other so called conservative media have conditioned people to think that someone that is rich is better than someone who is poor. It blows my mind that middle class people vote and support the GOP
I have seen this posted several places, including here (I think Sam might have even done it), but it is apparently a lesson in economics that needs to be taught many many times.

Quote:
Bar Stool Economics


Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:


...The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.


So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.


And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).


Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant,
the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man.

"Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"


The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.


The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!


And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.


In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia


For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 03:23 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 1209854)
I have seen this posted several places, including here (I think Sam might have even done it), but it is apparently a lesson in economics that needs to be taught many many times.
Your little analogy is cute but lacks facts. So my guess is you are a supply side economic guy? So you are telling me the economy grows when the rich pay less? Them paying less allows them to hire more. Is that your line of thinking? Do you have facts to support that? I bet you dont. If supply side econ worked unemployment would be low right now. It isnt. Deman side is what drives a good economy. Give people extra money and they will spend it. So if you own a business and people are lining up around the block to buy your product, you are going to close shop cause your tax rate is to high? Not to mention all of the deductions you can deduct for owning a business. Look them up. You can get a deduction for wages you pay to an employee. I would be more mad at the GOPs idea of wanting to do away with some deductions (they still havent said which ones they want to do away with). The world will not end if the Clinton era tax rates are put into place. Some presidents had 90% rate on the highest earners and the economy didnt go to the pits.

scotty 12-21-2012 03:27 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Actually its pretty simple.

First off, the middle class do not pay more taxes than the rich, IN MONEY. Only in percentage. Millionares pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

Secondly, the rich, ie; executives, are mostly business owners and investors. If it were not for thier business investments, the middle class would have no job.

Lets try economics 101. Give the rich tax breaks , especially business owners. The rich reinvest their money into their business or other business. The business expands. The expansion requires construction, purchases, further investment. That creates jobs. The middle class now have jobs and thus they prosper. They spend their prosperity putting money back into the economy. To make up for the middle class purchasing goods and services, business then have to expand and the cycle repeats itself.

On the side you now have more people in the workforce which creates more tax revenue. You have more consumer spending which creates more tax revenue.

Its just that simple.

On the other hand, if you raise taxes on the rich;ie business owners and investors. They cut back, stop expanding, stop investing. Jobs are lost. Which means no tax revenues. So the government has to raise the tax rate to compensate. This is what is happening now.

So instead of raising taxes, if they would keep them low and allow businesses and the economy to work on its own, we would be ok.

Look at places where they have jacked up the tax rate on the rich and big business. The rich and big business are leaving. California.

The government is trying to fix something that :

A. It can't fix itself. (its own finances are a joke) Its like hiring an account who is bankrupt to take care of your finances.
B. Was never created to fix.
and C. Has a terrible track record for their past attempts.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 03:34 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1209858)
Actually its pretty simple.

First off, the middle class do not pay more taxes than the rich, IN MONEY. Only in percentage. Millionares pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

Secondly, the rich, ie; executives, are mostly business owners and investors. If it were not for thier business investments, the middle class would have no job.

Lets try economics 101. Give the rich tax breaks , especially business owners. The rich reinvest their money into their business or other business. The business expands. The expansion requires construction, purchases, further investment. That creates jobs. The middle class now have jobs and thus they prosper. They spend their prosperity putting money back into the economy. To make up for the middle class purchasing goods and services, business then have to expand and the cycle repeats itself.

On the side you now have more people in the workforce which creates more tax revenue. You have more consumer spending which creates more tax revenue.

Its just that simple.

On the other hand, if you raise taxes on the rich;ie business owners and investors. They cut back, stop expanding, stop investing. Jobs are lost. Which means no tax revenues. So the government has to raise the tax rate to compensate. This is what is happening now.

So instead of raising taxes, if they would keep them low and allow businesses and the economy to work on its own, we would be ok.

Look at places where they have jacked up the tax rate on the rich and big business. The rich and big business are leaving. California.

The government is trying to fix something that :

A. It can't fix itself. (its own finances are a joke) Its like hiring an account who is bankrupt to take care of your finances.
B. Was never created to fix.
and C. Has a terrible track record for their past attempts.
Again you have no data or actuall facts to back up "Lets give the rich tax breaks so us middle class peons can keep our jobs." That way of thinking is outdated and false. The only people who think that way are the Fox News people of the world. Again, so if the demand for their product is high, someone will close their business due to high taxes? Like I said, business owners have a long list of deductions they can take for their business. Demand creates jobs.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 03:37 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Please show me a period in our country where the tax rates on the rich were high and the rates on the middle class low and the economy was bad? Ill wait. I wont hold my breathe though cause I might die.

scotty 12-21-2012 03:47 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209857)
Your little analogy is cute but lacks facts. So my guess is you are a supply side economic guy? So you are telling me the economy grows when the rich pay less? Them paying less allows them to hire more. Is that your line of thinking?

Yes.

Do you have facts to support that? I bet you dont.

Yes. And experience. During the Bush tax cuts my company (large trucking company) purchased 125 new trucks every year. We recorded an average of 13-15% growth every year. The government brought in more revenue than previous years. ( the fact that Bush squandered it on wars is irrelevant to income). My company expanded to purchased 3 new locations. Hired hundreds of people.

If supply side econ worked unemployment would be low right now. It isnt.

I am assuming your basing this off of the fact that during Obamer the Bush tax cuts were still in place. While this is true, the fact is that those cuts have been threatened with repeal every year since Obamer took office. As a result, my company has closed all 3 of those locations as well as 1 other we all ready had. We have purchased 0 trucks since 2008. Have laid off hundreds. Scared to invest.

Deman side is what drives a good economy. Give people extra money and they will spend it. So if you own a business and people are lining up around the block to buy your product, you are going to close shop cause your tax rate is to high?

The problem with this way of thinking is that people will spend that money and then what? Yep, its gone, done, over with. It causes a temporary spike in sales and then, once again, everyone is broke. It is not a long term solution. Businesses produce long term effects.

Not to mention all of the deductions you can deduct for owning a business. Look them up. You can get a deduction for wages you pay to an employee.

You also have to pay taxes for that employee and now, thanks to Obamer, you have to pay their healthcare.

I would be more mad at the GOPs idea of wanting to do away with some deductions (they still havent said which ones they want to do away with). The world will not end if the Clinton era tax rates are put into place. Some presidents had 90% rate on the highest earners and the economy didnt go to the pits.
See my above post.

scotty 12-21-2012 03:55 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209859)
Again you have no data or actuall facts to back up "Lets give the rich tax breaks so us middle class peons can keep our jobs." That way of thinking is outdated and false. The only people who think that way are the Fox News people of the world. Again, so if the demand for their product is high, someone will close their business due to high taxes? Like I said, business owners have a long list of deductions they can take for their business. Demand creates jobs.
Yes, demand helps to create jobs. But you have to have money in the hands of the middle class to create demand. Tax cuts alone will not accomplish that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209860)
Please show me a period in our country where the tax rates on the rich were high and the rates on the middle class low and the economy was bad? Ill wait. I wont hold my breathe though cause I might die.
Sure. One word. Clinton. We are where we are for two reasons. Clinton raised taxes and created a so called 'budget surplus' that was false. I can create a surplus in my budget for the future too, doesn't mean its a realistic budget. Because of this, along with several credit programs, (Fanny Mae and Mack ring a bell?) cause everyone to go coocoo. Spending exceeded income, both in government and civilian budgets, all on trumped up surplus budget.

Second, Bush squandered the tax revenue on poorly planned war policies, otherwise the revenue created would have went back into the economy. How do I know? Because it was the same policies that Reagan put in place. And the two times in my life I have made the most money was during Reagan and Bush.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 04:01 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1209861)
See my above post.
Are you trying to tell me that your trucking company would have closed its doors if their taxes were high yet people (lots of business) wanted them to haul stuff for them? On the other side, you would go out buy another location, buy more trucks, just cause your taxes are low? What if you did that and no one wanted you to haul stuff? Thats what I am saying, supply side econ does not work. You need demand. The middle class drive the economy. Put money in their hands and the economy will be good. Taxing the rich and giving the middle class cuts is the best thing for debt reduction and growth.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 04:01 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
And please explain how giving us middle class peons who owe their very existence to the rich tax cuts alone wont drive up demand?

odooley6985 12-21-2012 04:02 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1209863)
Yes, demand helps to create jobs. But you have to have money in the hands of the middle class to create demand. Tax cuts alone will not accomplish that.



Sure. One word. Clinton. We are where we are for two reasons. Clinton raised taxes and created a so called 'budget surplus' that was false. I can create a surplus in my budget for the future too, doesn't mean its a realistic budget. Because of this, along with several credit programs, (Fanny Mae and Mack ring a bell?) cause everyone to go coocoo. Spending exceeded income, both in government and civilian budgets, all on trumped up surplus budget.

Second, Bush squandered the tax revenue on poorly planned war policies, otherwise the revenue created would have went back into the economy. How do I know? Because it was the same policies that Reagan put in place. And the two times in my life I have made the most money was during Reagan and Bush.
Reagan lol. Look at the national debt before and after.

scotty 12-21-2012 04:05 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209866)
Reagan lol. Look at the national debt before and after.
Oh yeah, you were in diapers during the Reagan years. Tell you what, once you get a few more years under your belt maybe we can discuss this.

Otherwise, for the 'Fox' your blowing at us, it sounds just as much like your stuck on msnbc.

But then again, you stated you were employeed during the Bush years, so what exactly is your problem?

odooley6985 12-21-2012 04:13 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1209867)
Oh yeah, you were in diapers during the Reagan years. Tell you what, once you get a few more years under your belt maybe we can discuss this.

Otherwise, for the 'Fox' your blowing at us, it sounds just as much like your stuck on msnbc.

But then again, you stated you were employeed during the Bush years, so what exactly is your problem?
What do you mean? Also, the dude who helped write the Reagan tax cuts said they wouldnt work today. Reagan raised capital gains and business tax rates. Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency. So before you praise brother Reagan, do you want higher business taxes and capital gains?

odooley6985 12-21-2012 04:27 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
for two years investment gains were taxed at ordinary income rates under a Tax Reform Act of 1986 supported and signed into law by Ronald Reagan. No finanacial catastrophe happened as a result of this law.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 04:43 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
in 1985, Reagan said they were going to "close the unproductive loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share." GASP!!! Are you sure you know the Reagan cuts like you say you do scotty boy?

RandyWayne 12-21-2012 08:02 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209857)
Your little analogy is cute but lacks facts. So my guess is you are a supply side economic guy? So you are telling me the economy grows when the rich pay less? Them paying less allows them to hire more. Is that your line of thinking? Do you have facts to support that? I bet you dont. If supply side econ worked unemployment would be low right now. It isnt. Deman side is what drives a good economy. Give people extra money and they will spend it. So if you own a business and people are lining up around the block to buy your product, you are going to close shop cause your tax rate is to high? Not to mention all of the deductions you can deduct for owning a business. Look them up. You can get a deduction for wages you pay to an employee. I would be more mad at the GOPs idea of wanting to do away with some deductions (they still havent said which ones they want to do away with). The world will not end if the Clinton era tax rates are put into place. Some presidents had 90% rate on the highest earners and the economy didnt go to the pits.
And where does this extra money come from? I know I know.... it is taken from "The rich!".

Do you have any idea how jobs are created? Any idea at all?

<sigh>

odooley6985 12-21-2012 08:22 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 1209937)
And where does this extra money come from? I know I know.... "The rich!".

Do you have any idea how jobs are created? Any idea at all?

<sigh>

Ya just can't fix 'stupid'.
Tell me. I would like to know. I am being serious.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 08:28 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
I always get the same do you have any idea how jobs are created line from republicans. Then they proceed to tell me the same ole things that dont work. Its sad really. Cause I have facts to back up my line of thinking. All GOPers have is a tired strategy that has proven not to work. Yet I still get the Do you have any idea how jobs are created blah blah blah. Its freaking sad like I said. O well. The GOP has you all trained really well.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 08:38 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
http://www.ctmirror.org/story/17498/...dont-grow-jobs

odooley6985 12-21-2012 08:49 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ll-businesses/

Cutting taxes on small businesses is not likely to increase their hiring. “Until they see a pickup in sales, businesses with excess capacity are unlikely to use the proceeds from any tax cuts to hire more workers or expand capacity further. This is why CBO, even as it has noted that some businesses would profit from an extension of the current top tax rates, rejected the argument that Congress should extend these tax cuts to create jobs in a weak economy: ‘Increasing the after-tax income of businesses typically does not create much incentive for them to hire more workers in order to produce more, because production depends principally on their ability to sell their products.’ ”

Relatively few small businesses would be affected. “Allowing the top two marginal tax rates to return to pre-2001 levels as scheduled next year would affect very few small businesses, a recent Treasury Department study found. The study shows that only 2.5 percent of small business owners face the top two rates.”

odooley6985 12-21-2012 08:49 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
I could go all night. I will probably get the liberal media line in about five minutes.

odooley6985 12-21-2012 08:50 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3251

Tax-Cut Extension Would Not Generate New Customers for Business

CBO has explained that firms will not hire workers or make new investments unless they have — or expect to have — enough customers to justify the increased capacity. Whether a firm’s taxes modestly rise or fall matters much less in this regard than the level of demand for the firm’s products or services.

A CBO analysis noted that some small businesses would profit from an extension of the current top tax rates, but pointedly rejected the argument that Congress should extend these tax cuts to create jobs in a weak economy. CBO explained that “increasing the after-tax income of businesses typically does not create much incentive for them to hire more workers in order to produce more, because production depends principally on their ability to sell their products.” [3]

scotty 12-22-2012 04:11 AM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209947)
I could go all night. I will probably get the liberal media line in about five minutes.
Yep,

Because I could list just as many news reports from the other side saying tax hikes on the rich will solve nothing.

How about you address the spending in the government. After all, that is why the rich don't want to pay more taxes to begin with because the government will waste it anyway.

Why don't you address the lack of a balanced budget.........oh yeah, I mean NO budget in the last 3 years of this administration.

Why don't you address all of the failed investments this administration has made with our tax dollars that have ended in waste.

Why don't you address Obamacare that is and will cost us billions we don't have.

I bet you can. After all, your not really here for actual discussion, , , , , , now are you?

odooley6985 12-22-2012 09:12 AM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1209968)
Yep,

Because I could list just as many news reports from the other side saying tax hikes on the rich will solve nothing.

How about you address the spending in the government. After all, that is why the rich don't want to pay more taxes to begin with because the government will waste it anyway.

Why don't you address the lack of a balanced budget.........oh yeah, I mean NO budget in the last 3 years of this administration.

Why don't you address all of the failed investments this administration has made with our tax dollars that have ended in waste.

Why don't you address Obamacare that is and will cost us billions we don't have.

I bet you can. After all, your not really here for actual discussion, , , , , , now are you?
Again dodge the original question like a champ. The thing is am I am not just sighting articles. I am giving real examples. Obamacare is horrible. I hate it. I dont support everything Obama does. We need tax increases and spending cuts. Both are needed. We need to find a way to do both that wont hurt our growth. Obama has raised spending at the slowest rate of any president. What spending cuts should he make? Every spending cut he wants is shut down by the party of no the GOP. He gives them they deny them. The GOP wants to keep the tax rates for their rich buddies while they cut things for the elderly and poor. What failed investments are you talking a bout? and I am here for duscussion. You tell me I dont know what I am talking about and fail to show me why.

odooley6985 12-22-2012 09:14 AM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
O and I guess the CBO and non partisan congressional studies are all liberal media.

odooley6985 12-22-2012 09:17 AM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
I am still waiting for you to show me how jobs are created. You never did.

scotty 12-22-2012 11:36 AM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1209985)
I am still waiting for you to show me how jobs are created. You never did.
Well I gave you a real life example, dont know what else you want.

And please, don't patronize me with the "I don't support everything Obama does" . lol.

Your an Obama hack, plain and simple. You come here for no other reason than to preach your liberal agenda while acting like some kind of concerned citizen. We get people like you on this forum all the time. Some actually hang around a while, most don't.

Notice no one else has responded to this garbage? We are used to it. I'm just usually bored at work so I entertain you. If you had done a quick search you would see that what your posting has already been hashed out many times over. Gets old.

Tell you what, doesn't look like an agreement is going to be made on the hill so , when your boy Obammer gets all his tax hikes Jan 1, we can revisit this about ....oh.... April ? May ? See how its all working for us.

In the mean time we will have to simply agree to disagree because I'm not going to convince you and your sure not going to convince me.

But your more than welcome to join Seascapes, Light, and the rest of our socialist residents and continue to post away. lol.

odooley6985 12-22-2012 02:21 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1209993)
Well I gave you a real life example, dont know what else you want.

And please, don't patronize me with the "I don't support everything Obama does" . lol.

Your an Obama hack, plain and simple. You come here for no other reason than to preach your liberal agenda while acting like some kind of concerned citizen. We get people like you on this forum all the time. Some actually hang around a while, most don't.

Notice no one else has responded to this garbage? We are used to it. I'm just usually bored at work so I entertain you. If you had done a quick search you would see that what your posting has already been hashed out many times over. Gets old.

Tell you what, doesn't look like an agreement is going to be made on the hill so , when your boy Obammer gets all his tax hikes Jan 1, we can revisit this about ....oh.... April ? May ? See how its all working for us.

In the mean time we will have to simply agree to disagree because I'm not going to convince you and your sure not going to convince me.

But your more than welcome to join Seascapes, Light, and the rest of our socialist residents and continue to post away. lol.
O ya I am an Obama hack. Please dude. Again no examples. pathetic is what you are your line of thinking are. I give real life example and research and you give nothing. NOTHING!!!!!!!!! You tell me I dont know how jobs are created and yet proceed to not tell me how they are created even after I asked more than once. I support Obama's support for the middle class. You and your kind support the GOPs line of thinking that we should all by down the rich cause they throw us the crumbs from their table and gives us peons jobs. I doubt you even know what a socialist is. O well. Just prove what I already know as right.

Cindy 12-22-2012 02:24 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
:girlnails

odooley6985 12-22-2012 02:30 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1210012)
:girlnails
LOL. Cindy I promise I will go away if he tells me how jobs are created. He said I have no clue yet doesnt proceed to clue me in.

Cindy 12-22-2012 03:05 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1210013)
LOL. Cindy I promise I will go away if he tells me how jobs are created. He said I have no clue yet doesnt proceed to clue me in.
Don't go away, this is my favorite type of thread. :crazywalls

scotty 12-22-2012 03:37 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1210010)
O ya I am an Obama hack. Please dude. Again no examples. pathetic is what you are your line of thinking are. I give real life example and research and you give nothing. NOTHING!!!!!!!!! You tell me I dont know how jobs are created and yet proceed to not tell me how they are created even after I asked more than once. I support Obama's support for the middle class. You and your kind support the GOPs line of thinking that we should all by down the rich cause they throw us the crumbs from their table and gives us peons jobs. I doubt you even know what a socialist is. O well. Just prove what I already know as right.
You really need to work on your grammer.

Ok, I gave you a run down of economics then I gave you a real life example.

I never told you that you don't know how jobs are created, I simply said raising taxes on the rich will not create jobs.

Yes, big business does create jobs, as well as small business. Small businesses are the number one job creaters in our economy and the tax hikes Obama is wanting will affect them too.

Obama wants to support the middle class, your right, he wants the government to support all of us. GOP against the middle class? That's funny, need I remind you that the Bush tax cuts were also huge for the middle class. I have had more tax refund for the past 6 years than I am required to pay in. I almost feel guilty at tax time. My family has averaged $3,000 to as much as $8,000 a year in tax refunds. Thats money we have put back into our company. Obama's plan will eliminate that.

Lets go a step further. I own a webdesign business, my wife just started a cupcake business. Please tell me, what incentive do we have to succeed? If our businesses together bring in more than $250k a year we will be taxed to death. So why bother? Why would I try to expand and grow if I know I will have to pay more in taxes? This is how business is thinking right now. Thats why there are layoffs and shutdowns happening. That's why businesses are going overseas. Our government is not business friendly.

So since you have dragged me into this, abiet not kicking and screaming, here we go.

"Dan McGregor, chairman of McGregor Metalworking Companies in Springfield, Ohio, said he and the other six shareholders in the business are looking at a tax increase of $250,000 to $300,000 next year under Obama's plan. Each year, a portion of the profits are distributed to shareholders, along with money to pay taxes. The rest, he said, is invested back into the company. If taxes go up, distributions to shareholders must go up to pay the higher taxes, leaving less money to reinvest in the business, McGregor said.

Obama's plan also would phase out the personal exemption and gradually reduce itemized deductions for individuals making more than $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2272773.html

Thats me. You see, for some reason, while the cost of living has increased, the Dems definition of "middle class" has not. If your a small business owner and a family of 5, $250k IS MIDDLE CLASS. Cause it sure ain't rich.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated last month that Obama's plan to increase taxes only on top earners would reduce economic growth by 0.1 percent of Gross Domestic Product next year, or about $16 billion. That translates into about 200,000 fewer jobs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2272773.html

LOL, this is like saying, "well, there are already millions of people out of work, whats another 200,000"

Wealthy residents in California, Illinois, New York and Ohio are also leaving due to the high burden of government. And like elsewhere, they take with them a large piece of tax revenue. They also pull needed investment capital and jobs out of states desperate for them.

Despite the clear lessons available to him, President Obama wants to make the same mistake Britain and a few of our own states have made: He wants to raise the income tax rate of the country's top earners.

But it won't work. Washington would have to tax the top 5% at an 88% rate to balance the budget. Moving rates back to the Clinton-era 39.6% won't come close. So why target the rich?
Two reasons:
One, it plays well with the Democratic constituency.
Two, it's a gateway drug, the camel's nose under the tent. Once a higher rate for the rich proves to be insufficient for closing the deficit, the Democrats will say they have no choice but to raise taxes on the middle class.
While those who sow division and those inclined to be envious of others' wealth say "good riddance" to the exodus of the rich, the flight of the rich creates practical problems.
Not everyone likes the rich. But everyone needs them.


Tell you what, you claim your a peon? Stop being a peon, go open a business. You have to get in the economy to fully understand the economy. Get a taste of what its like to try and make the American dream a reality. Then you'll see how Obama is making it a nightmare.

odooley6985 12-22-2012 03:38 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Ok. I wont.

scotty 12-22-2012 03:45 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 1210012)
:girlnails
What. No popcorn? :jolly

odooley6985 12-22-2012 03:46 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
[QUOTE=scotty;1210029]You really need to work on your grammer.

Who cares? Really. This is a forum.

scotty 12-22-2012 03:53 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
[quote=odooley6985;1210034]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty (Post 1210029)
You really need to work on your grammer.

Who cares? Really. This is a forum.
Well, you went on a childish, name calling rant in that post. Figured if you felt it neccessary to make a political forum discussion personal and call me pathetic I might as well point out your flaws too. :santathumb

odooley6985 12-22-2012 03:54 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
I know I am just a hack and I worship Pastor Obama like you say. But like I said, I dont agree with him that 250k is rich. I like the GOP idea of 400k. They caved though. Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich and keep the bush era taxes for the middle class. So you and I will keep our same taxes. We need to cut spending and increase taxes. You mentioned 88% top rate on earners. That is low compared to what it was with some other presidents. I guess we just keep going round and round.

odooley6985 12-22-2012 03:55 PM
Re: wealth redistribution
 
[QUOTE=scotty;1210035]
Quote:
Originally Posted by odooley6985 (Post 1210034)

Well, you went on a childish, name calling rant in that post. Figured if you felt it neccessary to make a political forum discussion personal and call me pathetic I might as well point out your flaws too. :santathumb
Deal.


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