How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

How much does your 'church' pay you for your ministry? Are the singers, musicians, Sunday school teachers also paid?

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Why does it matter to you?
It neither affects you or anyone else here.
It appears to me to simply be a springboard for gossip and complaining.
FTR I am new here, as you know, so I am not accusing you, I have no idea what the motive is; however, it seems to me to be a question that will give opportunity for some to complain.

Peter asked what would happen to John and Jesus told him not to worry about the ministry of someone else, follow Him.
Joh 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Sounds like good advice to me...

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

:popcorn2

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

:popcorn2

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Nothing, except maybe occasionally footing the bill for a conference or seminar.

When we were younger, my husband and I worked as paid music directors for 4 1/2 years. It wasn't a lot, but it was adequate. The church covered our rent, plus $500/month. It wasn't enough to cover our bills, though, so my husband still worked a full-time job.

Personally, I prefer volunteering for church work over a paid position. One good reason is that it gives me a lot more control over how much responsibility I take on. However, I see nothing wrong with paying staff, and I definitely don't feel guilty for earning a modest salary in my former position. I EARNED every penny and so did my husband.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

All I can say where I go to church they are paying the guy too much.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Not too many takers answering this question seeker... lol

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

I'm on ~$80,000 per annum

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

I am the youth pastor, the praise team leader & sunday school teacher and my wife is a sunday school teacher. I also preach and take care of the services when the pastor is out of town.

I've never been paid for any of that in this church or any other I've been a part of. As a matter of fact... if I want a copy of a sermon I preached I have to buy it. :)

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

:coffee2

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Amen!













:laffatu

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

You know, the Elders over that congregation said the same thing!!!

You are a funny man!

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Just what I thought.:smack

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

$500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance
Gas cards

Is this what preachers make these days???

Good grief. Something's wrong.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

The way I see it...living modestly is biblical. The rest of the hundreds of thousands of $$ could be used in foreign missions, home missions, outreach to community, food for the many out of work etc.

I'm not saying that TPC hasn't been doing this, but anybody receiving that much money and fancy autos can go to the head and become high-minded.

I just cannot imagine living on this much money.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

When I travel as an evangelist, I get payed the big bucks. Hey the glitter jacket, aqua net hairdo, motor coach don't pay for them selves...Doc.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

A vast majority in the "romanist" system don't get paid near this

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

If the average church in America is 75, that means the average preacher doesnt get paid much. Bitter people will point out the abusers who are in a very small minority and will make it seem that this is the rule. They are the exception.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Yep.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

No WAY does the average pastor make 500K. That's a bogus number. As pointed out, very few churches even have the constituency to offer a large salary; let alone actually offer it.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Wonder how much Paul made and what kind of donkey he drove.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

True, but the romanist system is ripe for the shearing of the sheep at so many different levels.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Paul wasn't opposed to "elders" being compensated for their labor, particularly those who labour in the "word and doctrine." We just don't know how much he thought was appropriate.

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."

Interestingly, "double honour" means "two fold [value, money paid, or dignity]. Also, "a valuing by which the price is fixed" and "honour which belongs or is shown to one." Considering the subsequent comment about a labourer being worthy of his reward, it's a safe assumption that he's talking about compensation for work.

While I agree with the concept that ALL Christians should be good stewards of what they've been given, I don't agree that ministers should be expected to work for free. I also think that all responsibility for setting the amount paid should be left to the local assembly, who are in the best position to determine what their leaders deserve.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Nothing wrong with it as long as the congregation supports it.

Or the church doesn't know about it in some cases.

TV, are you a minister?

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

If we were to use the ox analogy, the ox is working and eating only what he's needing while treading out the corn.....which isn't a full time job for the ox. The ox isn't taking the corn by the sackfuls, he's only taking what's needed for food. So, don't muzzle the ox, let him eat, but the efforts of the ox doesn't result in the ox receiving bushel baskets of corn that he can't eat, the corn doesn't go to the ox, or is it for the ox, or else one would simply be planting and raising corn to feed to the ox while he's threshing.

The romanist system focuses on how much corn you can give to the ox when it's really not about the ox, it's about the corn which really isn't produced for the ox in the first place. In other words, using the analogy, the romanist system becomes a ox-centric, barn-centric system.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Paul added this, though: "the labourer is worthy of his reward" AND "let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour." Double honor is more than simply satisfying needs, if you assume that they are satisfying basic needs with "regular" honour.

I think it's good to call attention to problems when someone is taking advantage of the saints and the system; it's not good to judge pastors and compensated staff for simply receiving compensation. I have seen that right here on this board--the implication that if their heart was in the right place, they wouldn't need compensation at all.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

I don't think we can assume from this that "honor" is shown by money.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

We had a pastor who used that line to pay himself exactly double that which was the average pay for the city (or state, or nation?) we lived in -can't remember which one it was. Although in some ways I admired him for not keeping it a secret. He didn't shout it from the platform but the books were open so many knew.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

So, no limits, as long as the majority of the membership votes in "favor" or would a hand picked board suffice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Most pastors have to work a second job to make ends meet. I've worked side jobs throughout my ministry because my pay wasn't sufficient to provide for my family. Many pastors are never able to become a full time pastor. There have been more orphanages, drug rehab centers, homeless shelters, missionaries, hospitals, clinics, halfway houses, soup kitchens, clothes closets, disaster relief, church buildings, colleges, schools, utility help, food pantries, nursing homes, youth camps, preschools, pro life ministry, etc that have come to fruition through the so-called Romanist system than were ever birthed out of folks meeting in a living room in opposition to traditional worship facilities and paid ministers.

Question Seekerman (I think I already know the answer): do these house churches that you are familiar with teach/preach/practice tithing?

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

I can't imagine my pastor even thinking or suggesting this, let alone actually implementing such a plan. :blink So it was the pastor's idea? Not the congregation or board?

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Well, I was 14-19 during my stint there so I have no idea of any specifics of internal politics going on at the time (although I had a general sense of it). But he DID mention this "double honor" more than once from the pulpit, no doubt answering critics who asked about it in private. He was a good one for responding to people in a way where everyone could hear. He was also the type who always referred to himself in the 3rd person when talking and issuing commands, errrr I mean, his "opinion" which according to other teaching was a defacto command since "The Pastor" said it.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

If we are talking averages... I believe the "average" pastor likely gives more $$ to the church than he receives from the same.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Those guys are disgusting.

They are the exception. I live in a house provided by the church, I don't own one. I drive a 2001 Nissan Altima with 200k miles. My wife last year got a 2010 Honda Civic after driving a 1999 GMC Yukon for 9 years. It had 185k miles it when she traded it in. The last suit I bought was at least 5 years ago. I haven't bought a new necktie probably as long. We shop at Marshalls, TJ Maxx for clothes unless we find clearance items at the dept stores or mall. My wife is a flight attendant to help make ends meet. She also cleans a house once a week. We went on vacation last summer. We went to Ohio and visited relatives. I went to a conference here last year and paid $50 for registration. I didn't have to buy a new wardrobe to attend it. I help with the yard work here. When we have dinners/banquets I help fold the tables and stack the chairs and vacuum the floors. Last week I worked 49 hours for the church. The week before I worked 60 hours. We have two school aged children. They play soccer, take piano lessons, sing in school choir, have homework have to go to doctor.

I am Joe Average Preacher. I live like most preachers do, not like the prima donnas and divas. I gave back to our church about 20% of our income. We work hard, we serve, we sacrifice, we agonize with people as they fail and suffer, we disciple, we teach, we help, we encourage, we discipline, we correct. We endure petty criticisms from petty armchair quarterbacks and we are blessed with people who are pure gold.

Most of us live average lives like most people in our churches. Just trying to have a good marriage, raise decent kids, pay our bills, be successful at what we do. We don't feel entitled to any more than the average member of our church---but I sure don't feel we're entitled to any less.

So keep trapsing out the hot shots that are multimillionaires to try to prove that preachers are crooks and lazy and playboys and clueless but the truth is most preachers are just ordinary people and they don't see themselves as anything more.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

It's possible that he was just being defensive, but I agree his defense was in bad taste. It would have been better for a board member or secretary to make that defense. :) Talking in 3rd person is one of MissBrat's pet peeves.

I know that was true for my parents. They pretty much ruined their own finances trying to support their church. Their church was an old system where the pastor got all of the tithes (which was only between 35-40K in the best years; normally it was between 18-25K), but my Dad routinely poured that money back into the church accounts to pay bills and make improvements. I know that because I'm the one who balanced their books when they finally retired. It was ridiculous. And believe it or not, there were people in that church who thought my parents were paid too much. :rolleyes2

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

MissB,

My parents did the same thing. It's sad to think most people think pastors are paid too much. Some are...but there are plenty that sacrifice everything.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

I understand. I believe a certain level of transparency is needed to protect those who work in the ministry as much as anything. It is not just about protecting the church from greedy pastors... if there are any.

Re: How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?
 

Uh... I was not doing that at all. Just saying a certain level of accountability and transparency is a good thing for all.

Regarding the video - I agree with you "Those guys are disgusting".