Did God have a choice?
 

Is there some reason God had to set things up the way he (according to you guys) did? Could he have done anything differently? Do you sometimes wish he had?

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I don't think anybody can correctly answer that question Timmy. Who knows the mind of God? Not even Job's friends.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

A lot of people do! Just read AFF! :lol

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

:ursofunny

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I believe God could have set things up in any manner He desired. However, for some unknown reason... He chose things they way they are. Baffles me sometimes.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Timmy, great question & one in which I have given much thought, & prayer in regards to the issue you raised.
KJV Ephesians 3:
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Amplified Bible Epesians chapter 3:
9 Also to enlighten all men and make plain to them what is the plan [regarding the Gentiles and providing for the salvation of all men] of the mystery kept hidden through the ages and concealed until now in [the mind of] God Who created all things by Christ Jesus.

10 [The purpose is] that through the church the [c]complicated, many-sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere.

When Lucifer sinned, I believe God's judgement was immediate & he literally was like lighting falling from heaven. I believe hell was created at that time & that there were a lot of angels mouths droped open & more than likely that was also the time that Lucifer became an accuser.
"You are not just, you are not fair, you care for nothing but yourself."
In so many words.
God, "lets us make man in our image" Which I believe he was talking to the Earth not a second person in the Holy Trinty.
And so began this school, whereby we are learning about God as well as the angelic realm & we as himan beings are able to see & know the harshness of his judgements.
We also know the extent or riches of his mercy & grace.

How could one know that God could forgive sin if we didn't have sin to forgive? How would we know the extent of God's love if not for the cross?
Would someone know that God could be a God of peace if we did not have turmoil?:happydance

No, I believe it is this way for a reason.:thumbsup

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Do you believe that God is all knowing, everywhere present, and all powerful, and that He is love, we all believe this, right????

That being true, what could possibly have caused Him to have to create eternal conscience torment for anybody or thing in HIS creation? What happened to "what shall separate us..."

"...everything is from God, and for God..." He has a plan and He is working His plan, it will eventually result in the complete redemption of everything He created.

Why He created evil and wickness is a wonder to the human mind, but not to His wisdom, His end justifies His means.

The contrast between light and darkness, good and evil and so on is part of the creation's maturity. Otherwise, God is not what the first sentence of this post supposes.

I know someone will bring up, God has to have justice, for the sinfulness of man!!! Well, if you believe that ECT is God's needed justice, you are completely insane on this subject.

Sin brought about death, and that is why we die. BUT, Jesus did what we could not do, He reconciled man to God, and our sins are no longer being counted against us. Period. If you believe this you will "live" here and now, and in the age to come. If you do not, you will live like hell here and now, and you will miss out on the age to come. You will stay dead while believers that have fruit will be rewarded at the judgement seat of Christ. But you will be resurrected for the GWT judgement, and the correcting fires of the "lake of fire', afterwhich you will come into right relationship with God, and all others in the creation, "...that God will then be ALL in ALL." Everything is for God, everything in the heavens and in the earth. That folks is everything and everybody.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

No scripture for that!

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I have scripture for it, what part do you deny? I will support any part you ask.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Hell is real & it is eternal! Hebrews 6:6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

It is a foundational truth!

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Timmy,

I wish he had zapped Adam and Eve and started fresh... or better yet, zap the serpent in the garden.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I mustered up all the wisdom I could find and here is my answer............................................ .................................................. ................................................

I don't know. :)

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

:highfive The most truthful answer anyone could give!

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

You have interpreted "eternal judgment" as the traditional literal fire of hell. The literal rendering of these words is "judgment eonian", or an age of judgment, which I agree with. scripture4all.org/onlineinterliner/Greek_index.htm

BTW: that is Hebrews 6:1-2.

Unbelievers will endure an age of judgment. ED has been so ingrained into Christianity, that there is no objectivity to the very idea that God, intends to literally burn, torture and torment most of his creation endlessly!!! To believe such a thing is insanity.

The soul that sins shall die, that is why Jesus died, that was the penality for sin, Jesus the sinless sacrifice undid Adam's transgression, God has reconcile all to Himself thru the blood of Christ. You are not saved because you believed, you believed because God had already dealt with your sins, by sending His son to reconcile the world to himself. While you were a sinner, Christ died for you, He is what the scriptures says the Savior of the whole world. (1 Tim. 4:10)

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Crakjak, you take scripture & twist it & get the doctrine of universalism which is basically, from the devil.
You are trying to put a "holy" God & make him into your "mindsest."
I am not going to play ring a round the rosie doctrinal discussion with you as I know you have been around the block more than once & should know better.
The Bible is full of scriptures dealing with the fate of the wicked & sinners & it isn't temporary!

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

lol

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Ron, what you refuse to acknowledge is simply your doctrine, your interpretation of the scriptures was not from the apostles or Jesus, it was twisted out by the Roman state. When the "church" was ruled by the Roman sword, to control and manipulate the masses. It is not the gospel of Jesus, it is the most horrible possible news, and is not worthy of an all powerful Creator. No one insisted that you respond to my original post, I am not a universalist, all will be judged, I simply believe Jesus accomplished what He claimed. He IS the Savior of the whole, if all are not eventually made right with the Creator then He made false claims, which I cannot accept. He is love, but if you don't understand right and do right His love turns to HATE???? Commands you to forgive 7 x 70, O yeah in a day, but He will not???? I will not apologize for thinking more highly of the Creator than the traditions of men.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

There's no reason that God HAD to do it the way He did unless He Himself established principles that must be followed through, as He will not violate His own rules.

Think about when man sinned against Him though. Man made the same decision the angels had made. To disobey and rebel. With the angels He chose to cast them away. No road to redemption.

But God decided His love for us would supercede His Judgement. And all through the Old Testament we see God pursuing man, so that He might redeem man back to Himself... and then in the NT He takes on flesh so that once and for all He will provide Himself as the lamb for the world.

He didn't have to do any of that. Could have said, man failed, I'll go create something else. But somehow, he looked at what dirt and His breath had created, and thought it worthy for a second chance.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Do you think it's fair, how it's set up? The penalty for having any sin is death and torment? Do we deserve to be punished for something isn't our fault -- that it is impossible to be perfect? And the way to avoid our punishment is subject to debate, and we have to guess which way is right?

Could it have been set up to be more fair?

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Where is it written that you are entitled for anything to be fair? Or do you mean just?

If I were looking for it to have been fair or even just, God would have killed Adam and Eve after the first mistake, and none of us would have even had the chance to exist. I'm thankful that since the Garden God has shown limitless mercy toward mankind in His pursuit to restore all things... as only He could.

Sin is part of the human experience brother. It was introduced in the actions of Adam and Eve. And the Scriptures tell us that life is in the blood. When mankind procreates, the mother and the father blood types determine the blood type of the child. They pass on that sin curse through the blood. We are guilty through the blood.... and in the end, justified through the blood.

I by no means want it to be fair, don't have a right to it being fair, and am not concerned about if it is fair. There is a level of knowledge and wisdom that God has of to the why's of how this whole thing is set up, that is absolutely the best for man.... there could be no other way that would be better, or God would have provided it for us. I rest in knowing that He's God, and He worked it out the best way for us.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Didn't say it was. Was asking what you thought. Is it fair? Seem like you don't think it is, and that it doesn't need to be fair.

Whether it is just is another question, though not very different. So, sure, let's talk about justice. Is it just to convict us all of being imperfect, when we can't not be imperfect? And sentence us to death and torment for that guilty verdict?

Note: I am talking only, for this question, about our sin and the verdict, without addressing the "good news" about how to avoid the punishment. Simple asking: is the punishment just? After all, there will be many billions who will receive it. (So they say.)

lol
Thanks for posting your thoughts.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I don't know. Maybe you should ask him.:thumbsup

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I have. He didn't answer. :thumbsup

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I'm not sure that the penalty for sin and death is "fair". I feel that if it was "fair" Christ would not have died for our sins. I don't like that people go to Hell, I don't think it's a good thing. However, the scripture makes it clear what it takes to get to Heaven. Believe me I've been asking the same questions lately of God, haven't got the answers yet, but I don't know everything and won't. There was a man raptured into the third heaven during Pauls day in a vision. He probably still didn't know the answer to this question.

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

I don't tell my secrets to strangers Timmy. Maybe there's some things God requires a level of commitment in order for him to reveal to you. If so maybe you haven't reached that level. I know I haven't.:icecream

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Most of us will never hear about that. Most who hear it won't believe it. Most who believe it may not be able to obey the instructions. (If they guess the right interpretation of the instructions!)

Fair?

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Oh, I'm sure you're right: I haven't earned the right. :highfive

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

He's a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. That's all I know.:thumbsup

Re: Did God have a choice?
 

Join the club bro.:thumbsup