The Contention Between Oneness and Trinity Churches.
 

I found this and I thought this might strike up a good conversation here.
What do you think about this man's comments ?
http://unitedchristianchurch.com/node/64#comment-102

What is sad is that both LIE about what the other really believes. It is a shame and a disgrace.

in what way ?

LIE on purpose ??

Lies
 

Sure they do - Do you know of ANYBODY that has the Holy Ghost that believes in "THREE GOD"S?

Do you know ANY Oneness that "denies the Father"?

My main contention is with quote-unquote Trinitarians or ministers like TD Jakes that insert "co-existant" or "co-eternal" into the Godhead.

I have a tape of TDJ preaching, during which he seems to be reading the UPC's doctrine of the Godhead . . . but suddenly inserts those two words into it.

I've read one or both of the same words on several big-name church websites I've visited.

I don't agree with the wording. Do we really believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be co-existent or co-eternal?

You did not answer my question!

Neither word - Trinity or Oneness - describes the Godhead.
They describe the divisional doctrines that MAN has written to divide the Body of Christ.

AB,

I see more annomosity from AoG and COG then from any other group.
I think it stems from the Original fallout back in the Yearly years and
fued was passed down for many generations. many cannot get it out of their heads that we are "jesus only" meaning that we deny any aspect of the father and HG.
I do realize and readily admit that some of the Oneness helped to create this too. I have had Trinitarian pentecostals tell me that they remember when Oneness people would come into their camp meetings and conferences and start helling " all of you are going to hell if you don't get baptized in JN".

Thad - Years ago - I would have "Oneness" people - mostly UPC come in my Tent meetings and hand out tracts and put them in the offering buckets and they would always stick around at the end of the service and ask me - "How do you baptize?" I always thought it was so strange that water baptism was their MAIN FOCUS!
I always answered - "IN WATER!"
I would have to ask them kindly - Please do not approach the people and give them your tracts and do not put your tracts and literature on peoples cars. They were usually rude, condescending and very argumentative.

The main point of our meetings were to get people saved and healed. These peoples main point was to prove us wrong and them right and that THEY HAD THE TRUTH AND WE DID NOT!

The difference is real. I have been discussing/contending with Trins for many years. The problem is they have changed the definition of ONE. They deny that one is absolute concerning God.

Then they can say God is one and still say there are three co equal, co eternal, persons who are each one God in his own right. This is catastrophic to Biblical Oneness.

Three persons of God instead of one. Those who define it this way as most I have talked with do ARE denying the Oneness of God.

Why does not 3 PERSONS OF GOD=3 GODS?

I also realize most of them have never studied it very deep.

NOT THE SAINTS!!!! NOT THE SAINT OF THE MOST HIGH!!!

THEY WOULD NEVER ACT THIS WAY !! THE HOLY WONDERS IN ISRAEL!

It's only a lie if the person telling it knows it isn't true. Otherwise, it is simply a mistaken belief.

Why don't you leave them alone and go teach a Bible Study to a Muslim or a Hindu or a Buddhist?

I was born and raised and educated in the Church of God system and have NEVER heard or preached that there was MORE than ONE GOD!
That is an argument that Oneness men came up with to win over those that were not secure in their Trinitarian theology.
It has always been SO MUCH EASIER to win over someone with the Holy Ghost - OUT of a COG. A/G or IPH than to just go out and teach a sinner a Bible Study and convert them to JESUS.

The writers of those posts greatly err. Doctrine is not a bunch of bickering squabbles. The doctrine of Christ defines him and what he wants us to believe.

Did Paul say dont worry about doctrine? Just say you believe in Christ?

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

All are to believe the same truth. TRUTH MATTERS

Well Michael - You go ahead and work on people trying to win them to YOUR DOCTRINE and I will go ahead and win people to JESUS!

I teach Bible studies to any who will listen.

I ask you:

Are there 3 persons of God?

That is so condescending and childish and proves my point exactly!

Go win a Hindu - I am finished responding to you. You are hereby on IGNORE!

Atlanta Bishop thus responded to my question.

Are there 3 persons of God.

Friends MOST of the Trins I have talked to over the years would say yes there are 3 co equal co eternal persons of God. And THAT is my point in the matter.

Most Trins are not ashamed to say they believe this. But AB must think he they are not able to define their own doctrine.

ALL Trinitarians believe in 3 Gods or believe each person is 1/3 God if they believe the Trinity. The game is afoot.:highfive

Atlanta Bishop

I would like your opinion on this post please

The ONLY person I have ever met personally that believed this is Benny Hinn and he has back away from it in a major way after Steve Muncie rebuked him openly for believing and teaching it. I have NEVER met any Pentecostal - Holy Ghost filled person - that believed in more than ONE GOD.

As much as some of you want to believe contrary - Steve Muncie and Tommy Tenney and many others that left the UPC - they have a MAJOR influence in sharing the Revelation of Jesus Christ (which some call "Oneness theology) with many - many men and movements.

Ever heard this song?

GOD IN THREE PERSONS BLESSED TRINITY

Again I ask are there 3 persons of God?

If not how did this song become so popular in the Trinitarian world?

The MAIN difference between Trinitarians and Oneness can be described in one word. LOST! Furnishing a new quote for Lois.

Benny Hinn didn't just believe in 3 God's. He believed in 9! Each person of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), according to him, had 3 persons.

Father = 3 (Father, Son, HS)
Son = 3 (Father, Son, HS)
HS = 3 (Father, Son, HS)

= 9 persons of the Godhead

I'll have to look for my previous post and the source. I believe he made the claim on TBN and hasn't, that I'm aware of, retracted it.

"Each one of them is a triune being by Himself...there's nine of them" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 3rd October 1990).

"God the Father is a person separate from the Holy Ghost. Totally separate. ...Do you know that the Holy Spirit has a soul and a body separate from that of Jesus and the Father? ...God the Father then is a triune being within Himself. He's a person, He has His own Spirit, He has a soul. …A soul is my intellect. …God thinks. …separate from the Son and separate from the Holy Ghost. …God the Father is a separate individual from the Son and the Holy Ghost, who is a triune being who walks in a spirit body and He has hair…has eyes…has a mouth…has hands" (Orlando Christian Centre, Oct 13th 1990).

Gee, this gives me a headache.

He retracted it soon after he made the statement. Of course I know that no one on this forum has ever preached one thing - and then retracted it!
I am NOT a BH fan! I thought it was CRAZY for him to make such a CRAZY statement. He was called on it - not by APOSTOLIC brethren - but by Trinitarians!!!! They RAILED on him for teaching such a crazy doctrine.

That's not entirely true. They really do believe or say there is just 1 God numerically, but that word God does not refer to Person but being

That is not true. Long before the Oneness movement people have been accusing Trinitarians of polytheism

lol...he's childish?

Yeah and I heard it was Hank Hannagraf that corrected him

Excellent Points.

Prax,

When you say "they" you are not speaking for all Trins. Time and time again I have had to take them to the usage of the word ECHAD in trying to show them Eloah is a NUMERICAL ONE.

Hello Atlanta,

Have I mistaken you or are you saying that people such as the Assemblies of God who're born again (John 3:5), indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9) adopted as Sons of God (Romans 8:14) and demonstrate gifts of the Holy Spirit are really lost and going to hell? is this what you are saying, or have I mistaken you? Can a person be indwelt and adopted as a Son of God and yet be going to hell? What about Luther, Spurgeon and John Wesley do you also see them as lost and in hell simply because they were Trinitarians? Is it any wonder why Oneness folk have earn't such a dreadful reputation since their inception for such pronouncements.

By the way Trinitarianism doesn't teach three Gods, we are the defenders of one God form way before Oneness began in 1913. (Nobody before this date taught Oneness as the occasional modalists thoughout Church history either used Matthew 28:19 as the baptismal formula or did not speak in tongues).

Define "persons."