Christians and how they make everything...
 

a spiritual event or awakening.

Someones loved one dies and the only way they fine something good out of it is to think "revival is coming." They make statement about the person and somehow they come in contactwith someone and oh it is a sign of this orthat about that person. Person could have not lived for God or gone to church in years but that won't stop them from putting them through the gates of heaven because of xyz sign. I have seen people totally be inconsistent with theology to ignore the obvious. I know it is hard and a horrible situation. You def don't want to hurt anyone or make it worse. Yet people will make comments they know is wrong as well to BE POSITIVE. In the end they are lying to their beliefs.

I see this in other things. A girl half in half out of church sleeps around talks about God. Gets pregnant is not getting married but still living with the guy and talks about how God has been guiding her life and this little one into her life. REALLY? Friends and family on facebook be all nice talking about God as if she actually is living for him.

Why are people so MUST BE POSITIVE instead of simply don't say anything at all. Is that not lying and making it worse? Sure don't go ripping them apart but wow just throw out what you believe to be nice. It absolutely drives me crazy.

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

We don't know the eternal destination of anyone, whether heaven or hell. To assume the status of their salvation or whether they they are "living for god" is a dangerous path to travel.

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You are so right.

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

Oh really? Paul said if anyone calls themselves a "brother" we are to judge.

1 Cor. 5:9-13

5:9 I wrote to you in my letter to have no company with sexual sinners; 5:10 yet not at all meaning with the sexual sinners of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you would have to leave the world. 5:11 But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Don’t even eat with such a person. 5:12 For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Don’t you judge those who are within? 5:13 But those who are outside, God judges.


God wants everyone clear about who will NOT be in the kingdom.

Oh those judgmental Apostles! They just keep messing up our theology!

1 Cor. 6:9-10

6:9 Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Honestly this "Protestant Evangelical" doctrine is ALMOST as bad as Universalism! Everyone and anyone can live in sin up to the last minute, then say "Jesus I accept you as my Savior on their deathbed and on that day enter into Heavens Gates!

In this faith you could never say ANYONE died lost. For all we know Chavez anyone at death could whisper this prayer with their last breath and ... THERE IT IS! Heaven!

Oh but TO ASSUME someone might not be right with God NOW THAT is a dangerous path to be on!

Funny I thought the DANGEROUS PATH was for someone be walking in sin?

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Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

:thumbsup

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Luke 5:32 with Apostolic rewrite

32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance and to be Baptized in My Name and to speak in Tongues

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

:nod

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what Luke 5:32 says, Navygoat:

King James Version (KJV)
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Navygoat, you added to that scripture!:foottap
You always "rewrite" scripture to back up your case?

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

You all have invented a new religon.

APOSTOLIC UNIVERSALISM!

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Die Hard UPC? LOL! As if we have to go to a UPC Church to understand the doctrine of Christ. I have been in UPC Churches at tops 15-20 times.

Yet I would would say UPC in general is probably farther along than your typical Protestant Evangelical group.

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I am just trying to fit in with in the scripture twisters :happydance

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Oh stop it! We are talking about blantant stuff that is not even questionable that people say and know. This is about the position THAT THEY ARE AND PEOPLE DO WHAT I SAID ALL THE TIME! Also this is more about what people BELIEVE and then do JUST the opposite of what they believe and say things that are contradictive to be nice. In part yes we don't know a persons destiny though we may have a good idea of their destiny BUT the ISSUE is people SAYING THEY ARE is just as BAD as saying THEY ARE NOT in heaven. Somehow everyone makes it WRONG to judge someone NEGATIVELY and not POSTIVELY. You still are bearing false witness. Espcially when everyone knows pregnant lady is inconsistent with things. Then her boyfriend and her break up and she goes. Wow you really never know somone until you live with them. YET YOU JUST SAID IT WAS ALL GOD THAT brought about a bastard child, sex outside of marriage all the while claiming God leading your life and thanking him for THIS blessing. Oh yeah... makes sense while OTHER CHRISTIANS support this speaking nothing but how God is blessing you while still in sin. PATHETIC! The whole LOVE IS ALWAYS positive is a lie. Love might not say something but love does not sit there and bear false witness while lacking knowledge and claiming someone in heaven or supporting someones thought process that God is leading their life and calling results of sin a blessings directed by God.

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While we are at it let's add PASTORS and others in ministry to the list. When things go south for them. They claim God calling to leave after they have bankrupted the church etc... Christians use God as a excuse all the time. "God has called us to these changes........" Then when it hits the fan the pastor or ministry jump ship or compromise and look at other avenues. People use God as a candy stick for pet projects all the time in churches. It's like people that get sick and don't change their horrible eating habits and say well it's God's will for me to be sick. I have sought God for years and it's a burden or thorn I am to carry. blah blah blah Then you got people asking for healing and God's will. Yet when he does not heal them. Let's go to the surgeon/doctor for those radiation treatments because him not healing you means go to take chemo to be healed. Then we thank God in many cases for the scarred and detroyed half life they have after it effects. God bless those hands that poisoned us.

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Navygoat either quoted tongue in cheek
OR has been socializing to much
with JW's or other cults. :smack

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What kind of church are you
talking about?

Oh....I got it. Never mind!:nod

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

I am talking peoples mentality in general. It's not just A church but people and the current mindset that seems to be in American CHristian culture.

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:tic

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Sorry you don't like it, but the Bible is clear that we don't stand in judgement of the salvation of others. And there going to be a people who get to the judgement thinking they are saved, and will be turned away because they are not.

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Thanks for not really reading what is being said and not even dealing with what is said. Develop those comprehension skills.

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Wow. Yet another nasty post on the AFF.

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

not nasty at all. simply pointing that you still have not paid any attention to what is said. INSTEAD you impose or put words or context in my mouth that is not what my point is about. You also use scripture incorrectly about judgment. My basis was not about about their eternal destiny but that as a backdrop of WHY people do what they do. You chose to ignore my points and go about your own little do da way. You also chose to ignore the points that TO JUDGE NICELY is just as bad to JUDGE NEGATIVELY because it places one in judgement without knowledge to bear false witness. It also give possible false security and evaluation of someones life and how they lived and minimize our actual call because everyone says xyx made it heaven while half living for God or whatever can make people think certain things are ok.

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Uncalled for and you know it. I'm out. I refuse to quibble over stuff like this. It does nothing to advance the kingdom.

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lol... nice. So discussing a REAL problem among people today is to quibble over. That makes sense. Advancing the kingdom = don't address the real issues and think about what people are doing WRONGLY. Let's just be nice whether it bears false witness or not. It's all about love even if you have to lie right? don't call it what it is. Soft soap what it is. As long as we are nice. Don't judge anything at all. Ifthey say it is God.... it is because we don't judge ANYTHING weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

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friends I have a problem with this post. When I got saved at 19 i got letters in the mail that threatened me by family members who were catholic. They said if I did not leave my pentacostal church i would die.
As a christian i have been threatened violated in many other ways. If certain family members come near me I must call the cops.
i understand that my safety comes first. i always have family members who believe that i am mentally unstable because I attend a pentacostal church.
They have used scripture to say I am an unbeliever.

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Not really that unusual.:nod

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Seems odd to me. A post that questions the fallen state of the Church is considered to be "nasty". I suppose nowadays if you dont just run with the crowd and accept everybody as a Christian you are deemed as "nasty".

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This is so unreal. Are you saying you feel phsically threatened because someone says Church people are inconsistent with their beliefs? Some day when persecution hits America millions who think they are Christians will no doubt fall away.

If they cant bear hearing someone discuss the possibility that SOMEONE out there in this world might actually die lost and wind up going to Hell Fire they would have little hope of surviving harsh, long drawn out persecution for Christ and his word.

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He said he was threatened with death by family members that were Catholic, and accused of being crazy for his beliefs.

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What provoked them to say

Thats what I am addressing.

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Okay, which post was he talking about?

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Well I looked over the thread and I saw nothing whatsoever that would connect any post in this thread to a discussion about fearing for ones safety.

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the Bible says not to throw your pearls to swine.the people you speak of could know what they're saying or doing is wrong (according to the Bible) but they don't want to hear it.

There was a girl on another message board who asked if withcraft was bad. When i told her the bible says it was a sin she called me judgemental and self righteous.

Sometimes the seed falls on stony ground.

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childern born outside marriage are not b&%!@ childern as a christian i could never say that. My Lord and savior was conceived by the HOLY Spirit who chose a mother that was not married.Otherwise he was conceived outside of marriage.

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thank you cindy for your kindness. I thought that a quote i picked was with my my statement. We are to have compassion and the love of christ. As a christian I try to remember that we are to be like christ and speak in love.

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Talking "nice" is not always "love".

Was Jesus mean and judgmental when he warned that one sin not overcome could cost one their life in Hell Fire?

Mark 9:43-48


9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire, 9:44 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ 9:45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame, rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched— 9:46 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ 9:47 If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into the Kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire, 9:48 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’*

Was Jesus mean and judgmental? No! He was a man of love and peace. Yet he recognized that sin.....was against the Fathers will. He was first and foremost a lover of his Father.

He knew the wrath of God was coming against sin he came to save sinners. He did not care if they were religous sinners or worldly sinners. He knew they would face destruction in Gehenna Fire.

When we warn people today to flee from sin we are not trying to hurt their feelings. We are trying to help build them up in the faith to be overcomers that they may enter the Heavenly Kingdom.

To point out sins and inconsistencies is necessary. Sometimes it may come through mean, judgmental hypocrites. Nonetheless if the shoe fits wear it.

The goal for us all is to be like Jesus. God is love. God is a consuming fire. Let us offer HIM our lives to do his will. Perhaps we can also help someone else along the way.

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:thumbsup
Just for the record, I was one of those bastard children. It was off-the-cuff comments like that by people that contributed to me staying away from church for several years. A child does not ask to be brought into the world and they don't deserve to be labelled for the sake of cheap point scoring.

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I am amazed at the watering down even in this thread. As I said before people that lack any judgment at all are just as unrighteous as those who are unrighteously judgmental in their actions. They categorize it as mercy, grace and a whole host of things incorrectly. God's mercy and grace are never realized without a righteous reason. In the end many people bear false witness by their lack of speaking the truth and perpetuating a lie by being positive and putting God in the middle of something he clearly is not. All for the sake of being nice and not judgmental. Yes things can be done in consideration of everyone and in love that does not mean you say things just to support someones emotional state during whatever issue and again to keep perpetuating a lie.

also amazed people how people don't follow context. Grab a word and just go off on a tangent outside of the context it was meant. smh

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I understand what you're saying. I've seen the same kinds of things. I think that for many, if not most, it's just trying to be positive.

However, I think it's grounded in one's worldview. Some believe that only God is the author of life and that life is sacred. They'd ask... does God make mistakes? If not, the child is God's will. If so, do we label the child a "mistake" for the rest of their lives???

It may also depend on how one views sin and God's plan. For many, sin is a deed done and any "law violating" deed is sin. For others, sin is a principle in our flesh under which we are all equally condemned and so they judge no one. They see sin as inevitable and believe that one reaps what they sow in this life... and that God uses "sin" in His divine plan, though it is something that rends His heart.

For example, these individuals might point out that David committed adultery with Bathsheba. I believe she was like, David's eighth wife or something. Anyway, her name translates, "daughter of the oath", or... "daughter of promise". They see Bathsheba as David's "promised wife" and that had David been patient... he most likely would have been able to have her lawfully in God's plan. But David got ahead of God... and so paid the price... the life of his first born and continual family problems. Yet... God didn't write David off. Instead... God turned it around and blessed David with Solomon, the wisest king Israel ever had. Also, God blessed Israel through Bathsheba... she saved the entire nation twice. Here, in the story of David, the "other woman" that David committed adultery with... became one of Israel's greatest queens.

God works in mysterious ways. Sometimes... it might be better to lift up God in a situation, trust His plan, and see what He does with a situation in the long term.

P.S.
It also may depend on one's view of civil marriage. People are increasingly getting leary of civil marriages (government marriages). More and more couples are choosing private relationships because the institution of marriage today has become such a high stakes gamble... not to mention... the state is increasingly modifying it to accomodate immorality and "no fault" divorce. So, some seriously consider the ol' "married in the eyes of God" thing. Here's a thread where this is being discussed...

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=42501

Re: Christians and how they make everything...
 

That would get into the view God control everything. God is the author of life. He set the natural laws in place. However our use of those laws are not directly his will. Saying God's authored her choosing to have sex outside of marriage is heretical. God using her sin is another thing completely. Her continuing in sin and not getting married because we "just don't get along" is contradictive statements to that GOd put them togethor yet never married for the longest time and in the end did not. Simple point is she and him where all over the place and calling their sin GOD working in mysterious ways and calling it a blessing. Then people calling the child a direct blessing of God when in the end it was a result of sinful acts. Sure a child can be a blessing later but to call the conception and it a direct BLESSING AUTHORED by God is pitiful.

While yes God can USE the "result" of sin for his will. His will was not authored in bringing about that sin or situation. This is where the line is constantly crossed and the sin minimized among Christians.


See above. God using the result of failure and him bringing about or authoring it is the issue. You have people talking about all the time being closer to God and partying it up on the weekend and saying insane stuff on FB. No different on how people do things when it comes to emotional issues. It seems if they use the word GOD and WILL or PLAN enough in their posts it makes the whole situation ok and people just ignore the rest of it. As I said unjust postivity(judgment) is just as much a sin as negative judgment.

P.S.
It also may depend on one's view of civil marriage. People are increasingly getting leary of civil marriages (government marriages). More and more couples are choosing private relationships because the institution of marriage today has become such a high stakes gamble... not to mention... the state is increasingly modifying it to accomodate immorality and "no fault" divorce. So, some seriously consider the ol' "married in the eyes of God" thing. Here's a thread where this is being discussed...

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=42501[/QUOTE]

I don't believe in government marriage. Also this person has no concept of those type issues and was not what was going on.