A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

That's how I would sum up the doctrinal differences between OP's and TP's.

The Godhead difference really is a difference, and not just a mincing of words to cause division.

Often, I sum up the differences to be a reflection of the carnality of even our most holy elders and Bishops-- believing that God looks at His children of the various flocks and folds and shakes His Head at our lack of unity.


Still, there are moments like right now, when I think about the differences, and I see the vast chasm, and I wonder how is it even possible for one of these groups of sincere believers in the Gospel of Jesus Christ be saved and be so, so wrong?

If OP's are wrong, we are very, very wrong.
If TP's are wrong, we are very, very wrong.

Amazing Grace doesn't even really begin to describe what would be needed for there to be Believers from both schools of thought to be saved!

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Can't be both sides just agree that we will each pray for the grace to begin a sincere peaceful loving conversation

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

You're speaking of conversation, and I am speaking of the salvation of the very souls of the two very different doctrinal stance adherents.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

As that famous philosopher and humanitarian Rodney King once said "Can't we all just get along?"

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I hope I'm not being dense, but are you concerned that one's salvation could be at jeopardy because of division, or because of fallible doctrine?

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Salvation-wise I have never once questioned that the body of Christ is composed of Christians from many walks of life and denominational identification.

Jermyn, God is greater than our perceptions and our theological divisions. I understand that differences do exist, but our commonalities are far more than what divides us!

We Both confess:

One God

Faith in Jesus

Belief in God as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost

We must call on Jesus for salvation - there is no other name!

Jesus - the Son of God

Jesus was fully God and fully man

The Father was in heaven when His Son was on Earth

Our salvation is unmerited

The only hope for salvation is in Jesus Christ

We are saved by grace through faith...

We have so very much in common, yet some dwell on what divides... I choose not to do that.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

:yourock

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

:thumbsup

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I am addressing the thought that speaks to the, "We have the truth" mindset.
I am addressing the thought that speaks to the, "They are sadly deceived heteticks" mindset.

I am addresing the thought that many have on both sides of the spectrum-- that the doctrine of those other folks are why those people are going to hell and are not saved.

I am not saying I think like this all the time or that I even agree with anyone who on either side who thinks like this.

I am saying that IF any of those people are Biblically correct in their summation of the salvation on those on the other side-- I am saying that in this moment, these thoughts cause me to pause.

Just typing my thoughts out loud-- memories of conversations with people from both sides of the aisle.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Doctrine(s) does have a place in discussions of salvation and eternity.

Do you OR DOES ANYONE actually believe that doctrine does not have a place in discussions of salvation and eternity?

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I believe it was Nathaniel Urshan who said, in reference to the AG "We're really not as different as most people think." I watched a Oneness vs Trinity debate once between DKB and some Baptist guy. When DKB was finished making his case, the Baptist got up and said "I agree with 90% of what he said."

When it comes to baptism, the AG never really condemned the Jesus Name formula. if you'll look at the 1916 AG resolution here, on page 6, left side, it says "RESOLVED, that since the words in Matth. 28:19 and the words in Acts 2:38 were both inspired of God, we hereby disapprove of contending for the one to the exclusion of or against the other, because confusion and a party spirit are sure to follow such unscriptural conduct. This council therefore recommends that all our preachers include in their formula used in connection with the act of baptism the words used by Jesus in Matth. 28:19."

There you see that they did not condemn the Jesus' Name formula. They even disapproved arguing about it.

In the 4square Declaration of Faith Study Guide, found here, page 44, it says "while the Foursquare Church is Trinitarian and recommends the use of the Trinitarian formula, we would certainly not forbid the use of the formula, "in the name of Jesus," as long as it does not represent a polemic against a Trinitarian understanding."

(All of the above is just food for thought.)

I would like to see Oneness organizations accept F,S & HG baptism in addition to Jesus' name.

It's true that there is backbiting on both sides, and we need to get over that.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I agree, but I don't think a difference in understanding of the Godhead is going to send someone to hell. (In this case.)

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

That would be very bad for Oneness if we teach its all the same as to the baptismal formula. We who have the revelation are EXCITED about it. To us it brings JOY to know the truth of who Jesus is.

That does not mean we gloat against Trins or other faiths but there is no greater joy than to experience truth.

What some call "backbiting" others believe is contending for the faith once delivered to the saints.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

This discussion has pops up all the time, and there is currently a thread in "Salvational Issues" concerning that.

The only thing I can tell you in this thread, whether you agree or not, is that I believe it's under the same authority either way it's done.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Not all Christians believe the Jesus is God part. Most do, but not all.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

How can one be a Christian and not believe that Jesus is God?

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I wish we all were saved. I want Oneness, Trins, Unitarians, Arians all to have eternal life. Thats my desire. Yet Yeshua taught things to his followers that he said were essential to accept.

So when I discuss matters of doctrine with people its not in the sense of "HOW GREAT WE ARE AND HOW EVIL YOU ALL ARE"!

No. Its in that first of all I love Yeshua and want to be faithful to his teachings. I think in terms of this person if they have repented and believed in Christ are in process of being saved. I want to help them.

As a young disciple God used other people in my life to guide me forward. I had to over time change everything I believed as a young "Jesus Freak" starting out in 1974.

Hopefully I have been used to help others the same way.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

It's easy, for me at least.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Oneness, Trinitarian, Arian or whomever, only one thing redeeems any of them, the blood of the Lamb of God. That redemptive blood isn't withheld from the Oneness, Trinitarian or Arian because of their differing views of Jesus Christ.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

:thumbsup

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Its not just about salvation either. Its about faithfulness to the truth.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Let's start with first things first, redemption.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

We have no assurance of salvation if we dont believe in the truth.

2:13 But we are bound to always give thanks to God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth; 2 Thess 2:13

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

We're assured of redemption if the blood of the Lamb redeems us.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

There is a FALSE ASSURANCE. Sure. People will delete the words of Christ and the apostles. Just like you just did. You assure yourself because you believe Yeshua died you will be saved.

You dont like the part Paul said that we are chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Nonetheless it is YESHUA who grants salvation. So one is far better off to accept his words in total than men who delight in adding to and taking away from them.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

You don't believe the blood of the Lamb of God is sufficient for redemption?

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Yeshua does not promise eternal life ONLY on the basis that he died.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Yes, it's complicated.

We need to not only believe, but believe the truth.

Even though there are more denominations then days of the year all proclaiming that they have the truth.

And we have a bible from which we are to derive truth, assembled from bits and pieces of parchments, which are debated over concerning their authenticity, possibly containing a few very key sentences which could be misleading.

Also, we have manmade traditions tacked on to the truth which also may or may not take us to hell.

And these truths are proclaimed to us by people from one end of the spectrum to the other: From the holiness or hell, stand on your head and gargle peanut butter if I say so crowd, to the superstar, I've had so many surgeries and have so much fake hair that I look like a much younger caricature of myself while living in opulence crowd.

Now, figure it out and get it 100% right, or you are going to hell, OK?

If you are a legalist you are going to hell because you take away from the blood, if you are a libertine, you are going to hell, because you are not obeying the gospel.

In fact, TV itself may take you to hell, especially if you are amening the wrong crowd.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

So many pervert the Gospel. This is why we must work out our own salvation, with fear and trembling. Stay in the Word, and have prayer and fasting.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I'm asking about your view of the redemptive blood of the Lamb of God. In your opinion, is the blood of the Lamb of God sufficient for redemption? Personally, I believe that it is.

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

The blood is enough to save you. But you must meet the qualifications to receive the shed blood namely repentance and faith in Jesus.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Who is Jesus to YOU?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOhKw...ture=endscreen

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

:highfive

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

I like Joel and Nathan Urshan. Heard Jonathan speak at a World Changers conference several years ago. It was good.

Re: A Lot in Common But Very Different
 

Yes, this would be more in line with the type and shadow of the OT sacrifice/high priest system with Jesus Christ now being out sacrifice/high priest.