The Truth About Immigration
 

Right now the USA welcomes about 2 MILLION legal immigrants to this country a year. The overwhelming majority are from Latin America and Asia. Of the Latin American granted visas each year, 70% are Mexican. Therefore, Mexicans are already disproportionately represented among visa recipients. In the name of JUSTICE, the illegals should not be given amnesty, at least as far as some path to citizenship is concerned. I've talked to dozens of illegals and I've yet to find one who truly loves the USA and wants to become part of the family. They just want to make a better living for their families. Sadly, I've also talked to DOZENS of children of illegals who were born here and 99% of them PROUDLY admit that they have never considered themselves to be American, but think of themselves as MEXICANS. The irony is, some have never once stepped foot on Mexican soil. Why would I want these people to vote in our elections? I challenge ANYONE to tell me why someone who is not ready to completely renounce allegiance to their country of origin should be allowed to become a citizen of our great and exceptional country.

Obviously we can never deport 15 million people ,nor am I saying we should. We need a true "common sense" Approach. First, create a true work visa program with the following points......

1) Create a status for those who just want to work but want to remain loyal to their country of origin. In other words, distinguish these from people who truly are immigrating here because of a desire to become Americans.

2) Require those who employ them to pay a 10% immigrant tax on each guest worker employed.

3) Guest workers will enjoy the same freedoms citizens enjoy such as owning property, freedom to leave the country and return, the right to own property and own businesses,etc.

4) Guest workers will never be eligible for citizenship as long as they retain this status. To be a citizen they would have to leave the country and apply for permanent immigrant status.

5) This will be a "stand alone program". No applying for family members to come (such as grown children, brothers, parents,etc) Married men would be allowed to bring their wives and any unmarried children under 18 years of age. Children of guest workers would not be citizens at birth (no "anchor babies"). When a child of a guest worker turns 20, he must apply for his or her self for worker status or face deportation. If he is granted worker status and later marries, his children will not be granted citizenship at birth, nor his grandchildren, etc.

6) Workers will be responsible for their own healthcare and welfare. All current treatment laws would apply to them, but there would be no government help in any way.

This plan is not perfect, but it beats anything I've seen either party come up with so far.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

I believe that disproportion us very unfair to the rest of the world and unbalances the idea of America being the melting pot of the world's cultures

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Explain a little further please.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Explain why it's unfair to people who want to come here from the Philipines that most visas are from South America?

Or explain why having a large majority from one culture unbalances the idea of a melting pot?

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

That was not my point. My point is this. Mexicans are whining about how "unjust" and "discriminatory" our immigration laws are, when in reality, the discrimination has been in their FAVOR, for both legal AND illegal Mexican immigrants. They already receive the majority of visas, and nothing is done to stop millions more from coming here illegally. That is discrimination in their favor, yet they continually label us "anti-Hispanic".

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

It was my point, that it is unfair.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

I see.

I wish some gutsy conservative would start pointing out to the "Hispanic" community just how THEY are being discriminated against by this gross favoritism shown to Mexicans. I'm sure there are plenty of entrepreneurs from these socialist South American rat holes who lost their businesses who would love to come to America to start over. But with Mexicans always cutting in line, how will they ever get that opportunity? This sounds like an issue that could divide this "Latino solidarity" and rob the Dems of allot of votes. Divide and conquer, just like the Dems do.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Yeah, compared to Mexico the rest of South America are not well represented in our melting pot....though I'd prefer less El Salvadoreans of the gang persuasion.

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It's amazing how such a tiny country can produce so many violent people, and how many of the violent ones are freely operating on American soil.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

I could live with that.

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Where do u guys stand on mostly illegal Hispanics having their own "church" services within a (larger) local church? Where I attend, it is that way, the Hispanic pastor is legal, but many/most of the others hispanics are illegal. A few times, the men hispanics have married the American women in the church, have children, then got in trouble or whatever and got shipped back. Then the wife and children are "burned for playing with fire", and travel back and forth or whatever. One family divorced because of it.
I have unvoiced issues with it.


I was temporarily working in Chicago about 15 years ago, and we mentioned all the foreigners, mostly Hispanics tho, there to the forklift driver, and he said their goal was to take over our country thru reproducing with our american women, and if they were not willing to let them, they would do so via rape if thàts what it took. No lie. My co-worker almost beat the dog poop outa that guy.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

True but we have to realize too the genesis of that violent gang was a brutal war.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Again. many of these people do have a "taking over" mentality. They have no conception of what being an American is all about, that this is a color blind issue. To them it is about race.

Sen. Rand Paul is making a speech today, and showing support for a path to citizenship.

The so-called Gang of 8 issued a statement that their proposal will be submitted in April.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

It would be a good idea to be careful with headlines.

Which is why I went to Sen. Paul's senate website and read his press release from 2/8/13, "Trust But Verify on Immigration Reform." ( It was also released as an op-ed piece in Wash Times, "Paul: From Illegals to Taxpayers, Make Path to Citizenship Conditioned on Border Security.") *Disclaimer: I believe the Wash Post added the title, since it's different than his office's release.

It absolutely includes a path to citizenship, even though it doesn't explicitly state it. I worked with immigration for 3 years (2000-2003), so I can see the path being allowed even though the word "citizenship" isn't being used.

The path is through the "green card," or as Sen. Paul states, "permanent legal status." Once they are able to obtain the green card, they are able to apply for naturalization (CITIZENSHIP) after 5 years.

I agree with Sen. Paul on this.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

There is always a path to legal citizenship in this country.

You're post, I responded to, came across as blanket amnesty, and that is not his plan.

He is saying that Congress would have to show that border security was progressing, annually, for five years in order for his other reforms to move forward. I'll not comment on details as I haven't seen the transcript yet.

That is simply not true. My exact statement was that he supports a path to citizenship. I did not say anything about amnesty. That's your word, not mine.

Of course there's always a path to citizenship, but not for illegals, and not as proposed by Sen. Paul.

Also, once someone obtains LPR status, they can apply after 5 years regardless of benchmarks. They'd have to rewrite immigration law to change it, and that's not going to happen.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

I am saying it came across that way. We've been putting out fires on the Internet, started by the AP with Fox News ganging up against Rand, most of this morning and I just wanted to make sure you clarified. So, thanks for that.

There is a path to citizenship for illegals, They need to seek to get there legally. I'm sure that's what you were trying to say.

And you are right about the green card holder (LPR), that is immigration law.

:lol :thumbsup
Absolutely. Unfortunately we still have to deal with those here already. And it will have too include a way for LPR, which will allow them to eventually become citizens.

I do believe FoxNews and others are trying to wrongly call Paul's plan "amnesty" to try and drive a wedge and cause conflict.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Agreed, and I would note that Newt was making the same point during the primary debates that we are NOT going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants. Yet, he gets crucified for that.

Here is Rand's Transcript:

Por favor disculpen mi Espanol. Como creci en Houston — es un poco ‘espanglish y un poco Tex Mex.

I lived, worked, played and grew up alongside Latinos. As a teenager I worked alongside immigrants mowing lawns and putting in landscaping around businesses.

I remember once asking one of the immigrant workers how much he was being paid. “Cuanto le pagan por el trabajo?”

He responded “tres dolars.” I responded,“Yo tambien. Tres Dolars, por hora . . . ?”

He shook shook his head, “No tres Dolars, por dia!”

At a young age, I came to understand that it makes a difference whether you are a documented immigrant or an undocumented ivmmigrant, that the existence was not easy for the undocumented but that opportunity in America somehow trumped even the poor living conditions and low pay.I wondered what circumstances must have been like in his country to choose an admittedly tough life in the shadows.

Growing up in Texas I never met a Latino who wasn’t working.

(Con't)

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

In school, everyone took Spanish. I sometimes wish I had paid more attention in class. As a teenager, I was not always the model citizen that I am today…

In my middle school Spanish class, my exuberance sometimes overcame my restraint and I would be asked to go to the principal’s office. My Spanish teacher would scold me,“En boca cerrada no entran moscas!”

Cuando no lo escuchaba, I would often be sent to the Principal’s office.In those days we had corporal punishment.

After a few such trips to the principal’s office, I discovered that my Spanish teacher was married to the Assistant Principal and they were getting a divorce.

So when I was sent to the principal’s office, I would make the decision to go instead to the Assistant Principal’s office. He and I would commiserate: Oh man she’s crazy! You’re right kid, just sit here today and go back tomorrow.

As a consequence, I never became as proficient with my Spanish as I would have liked because I spent a great deal of time in detention.

I read Miguel de Unamuno in college. I think he gives Republicans some good advice,

He wrote,“Miremos más que somos padres de nuestro porvenir que no hijos de nuestro pasado.”

Republicans need to become parents of a new future with Latino voters or we will need to resign ourselves to permanent minority status.

The Republican Party has insisted for years that we stand for freedom and family values. I am most proud of my party when it stands for both.

The vast majority of Latino voters agree with us on these issues but Republicans have pushed them away with harsh rhetoric over immigration.

Immigration is a contentious issue in American politics. In our zeal for border control, we have sometimes obscured our respect and admiration for immigrants and their contribution to America.

Republicans have been losing both the respect and votes of a group of people who already identify with our belief in family, faith, and conservative values. Hispanics should be a natural and sizable part of the Republican base.

That they have steadily drifted away from the GOP in each election says more about Republicans than it does about Hispanics.

Whether we are discussing hard work, respect for life or the quest for freedom, immigrants bring with them the same values that previous generations of immigrants did.

Defense of the unborn and defense of traditional marriage are Republican issues that should resonate with Latinos but have been obscured by the misperception that Republicans are hostile to immigrants.

Somewhere along the line Republicans have failed to understand and articulate that immigrants are an asset to America, not a liability.

My German great-grandparents didn’t speak much English when they came to America. They didn’t have much, but they also didn’t ask for much-all they wanted was an opportunity.

They began in America peddling vegetables. They finally got that opportunity when they started a dairy business in their garage, scraping together a living, raising a family, and constantly working to give their children a better life than they had.

My great-grandfather came to America in the 1880′s. His father died after only six months in America. At 14, my great-grandfather was alone.

He survived and ultimately thrived in his new country with a new language. In their home and their church they spoke German.Republicans who criticize the use of two languages make a great mistake.

As the son of immigrants, my grandfather, who only had an 8th grade education, would live to see his own children all go to college. They became ministers, professors, doctors and accountants and one of them became a Congressman.

My family’s story is like that of millions of others who came to this country. Every generation of immigrants wants these opportunities.

Many have faced intolerance and bigotry. It was not always easy to be German American in the face of two world wars started by Germans. Intolerance is not new, and it is not limited to one language or skin color.

But through our rich history, and for many millions of immigrants who came to America, such sacrifice and hardship was worth it. They wanted what all Americans want-better lives for themselves, their children and grandchildren.

For the American Dream to be achievable for all, we have to have an educational system that believes that all students have the capability to succeed.Unfortunately, the education establishment seems to casually discard Latinos, blacks, and others into crummy schools with no hope.

I argue that the struggle for a good education is the civil rights issue of our day.I love the story of Jaime Escalante.In the area of East Los Angeles, in 1982, in an environment that values a quick fix over education and learning, Escalante was a new math teacher at Garfield High School determined to change the system and challenge the students to a higher level of achievement.

Escalante was at first not well liked by students, receiving numerous taunts and threats.

As the year progressed, he was able to win over the attention of the students by implementing innovative teaching techniques.

He transformed even the most troublesome teens into dedicated students. While Escalante was teaching basic arithmetic and algebra, he realized that his students have far more potential.

He decided to teach them calculus. To do so, he held a summer course in pre-calculus.

Despite concerns and skepticism of other teachers, who felt that “you can’t teach logarithms to illiterates,” Escalante nonetheless developed a program in which his students can eventually take AP Calculus by their senior year.

Taking the AP Calculus exam in the spring of their senior year, his students were relieved and overjoyed to find that they have all passed, a feat done by few in the state.

My dream is that we transform the education monopoly into a thriving, competitive environment where Hispanic students get to choose what school they attend and that no student is forgotten or ignored.America’s strength has always been that we are a melting pot with room for those who dare to dream. I’ve seen firsthand what it is like for new immigrants in Texas.

I’ve never met a new immigrant looking for a free lunch.

The question is: How do we now reflect this in our 21st century immigration policy?It is absolutely vital for both the success of our immigration policy and for the purposes of national security that we finally secure our borders.

Not to stop most immigrants from coming-we welcome them and in fact should seek to increase legal immigration.

The Republican Party must embrace more legal immigration.Unfortunately, like many of the major debates in Washington, immigration has become a stalemate-where both sides are imprisoned by their own rhetoric or attachment to sacred cows that prevent the possibility of a balanced solution.

(con't)

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Immigration Reform will not occur until Conservative Republicans, like myself, become part of the solution. I am here today to begin that conversation.

Let’s start that conversation by acknowledging we aren’t going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants.

If you wish to work, if you wish to live and work in America, then we will find a place for you.

In order to bring conservatives to this cause however, those who work for reform must understand that a real solution must ensure that our borders are secure.

But we also must treat those who are already here with understanding and compassion.

The first part of my plan – border security – must be certified by Border Patrol and an Investigator General and then voted on by Congress to ensure it has been accomplished.

This is what I call, Trust but Verify.With this in place, I believe conservatives will accept what needs to come next, an issue that must be addressed: what becomes of the 12 million undocumented workers in the United States?

My plan is very simple and will include work visas for those who are here, who are willing to come forward and work.A bipartisan panel would determine number of visas per year. High tech visas would also be expanded and have a priority. Special entrepreneurial visas would also be issued.

Fairness is key in any meaningful immigration reform, but this fairness would cut both ways: The modernization of our visa system and border security would allow us to accurately track immigration.

It would also enable us to let more people in and allow us to admit we are not going to deport the millions of people who are currently here illegally.This is where prudence, compassion and thrift all point us toward the same goal: bringing these workers out of the shadows and into being taxpaying members of society.

Imagine 12 million people who are already here coming out of the shadows to become new taxpayers.12 million more people assimilating into society. 12 million more people being productive contributors.

Conservatives, myself included, are wary of amnesty. My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line.But what we have now is de facto amnesty.

The solution doesn’t have to be amnesty or deportation-a middle ground might be called probation where those who came illegally become legal through a probationary period.

My plan will not impose a national ID card or mandatory E-Verify, forcing businesses to become policemen.

We should not be unfair to those who came to our country legally. Nor should we force business owners to become immigration inspectors-making them do the job the federal government has failed to do.After an Inspector General has verified that the border is secure after year one, the report must come back and be approved by Congress.

In year two, we could begin expanding probationary work visas to immigrants who are willing to work. I would have Congress vote each year for five years whether to approve or not approve a report on whether or not we are securing the border.

We should be proud that so many want to come to America, that it is still seen as the land of opportunity.Let’s make it a land of legal work, not black market jobs. Let’s make it a land of work not welfare. Our land should be one of assimilation, not hiding in the shadows.On immigration, common sense and decency have been neglected for far too long. Let’s secure our borders, welcome our new neighbors, and practice the values of freedom and family for all to see.Some say to generalize about any ethnic group is be a racist. There is a hilarious Seinfeld episode where Jerry admits that he loves Asian women but he frets and worries, “Is it racist to like a certain race?”So it is with trepidation that I express my admiration for the romance of the latin culture. I am a fan of Gabriel Garcia Marquez.

In Love in the Time of Cholera, Marquez gives some advice that Republicans might consider,“. . . human beings are not born once and for all on the day their mothers give birth to them, . . . life obliges them over and over again to give birth to themselves.”Likewise, Republicans need to give birth to a new attitude toward immigrants, an attitude that sees immigrants as assets not liabilities.

No one captures the romance of the Latin culture more than Pablo Neruda.

I love how Neruda in “Si tu me Olvidas” issues a passionate threat but ends by saying,”Perosi cada día,cada hora,sientes que a mí estás destinadacon dulzura implacable, si cada día subeuna flor a tus labios a buscarme,ay amor mío, ay mía,en mí todo ese fuego se repite,en mí nada se apaga ni se olvida”

How can we not embrace such passion. How can we not want that culture to merge with and infuse the American spirit. They are not called the romance languages for no reason.

As we move forward on immigration reform, I for one will work to find a solution that both adheres to the rule of law and makes room for compassion.My hope is that today we begin a dialogue between the GOP and Latinos.

A dialogue that shows that the GOP sees all immigrants as assets and that Latinos can come to see the GOP as the party of opportunity, the party of the American Dream, — El partido del sueño Americano.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

are you now part of the rand paul campaign? are you ready to take the leap and become libertarian? :laffatu

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

He is more a Constitutional Conservative. Part of that description would be a little bit Libertarian. I'm in! :thumbsup

And, BTW, DM, Rand had an excellent interview with Sean Hannity today, discussing his immigration reform and foreign policy. I understand it was a great interview and, as usual, well articulated. I don't listen to Hannity, so I have to wait for someone to send me the clip. I'll post that when it is made available.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

thanks for posting that when you do. i will watch. i'm interested in what paul has to say. i really like his anti establishment mantle. have you heard anything about proposed changes to the primary process? i heard small snippets from chris matthews that the rnc wants fewer debates and primaries instead of caucuses(not sure of the impact of these changes but i heard it will favor wealthier establishment candidates) can you comment on the difference between a primary and a caucus as far as impact on a candidacy?

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

PO, here is the rand paul interview on hannity today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wbDpVBQAKs

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Thanks, DM. I didn't look for it. Even if Rand Paul, Ted Cruz or anyone else I like is interviewed, I cringe to think that I have to listen to whiney, hiney, Hannity. :heeheehee

Are you going to listen to the interview?

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

just did. I agree with everything he says. the only concern i have is his economic policy. how will he treat ss, medicare, medicaid, gov investment in r&d etc. everything else is good to go.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

How does one fix the unfixable? Simply ease those duties back to the people through their States. One size fits all simply is not working. Some States would become totally libertarian while others would be very socialist. It's called self determination and I can live with it.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Sorry, I got tied up for a bit. Yes, Priebus wants the last primary to be over by May 15 and no later. He wants Convention to be moved to June or July, less debates (10 or 12), and, yes, he wants to cut out the caucuses and conventions who select the delegates. Think Ron Paul. They want to continue to cut out any grassroots efforts of a takeover.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

His website goes over all the issues. I still want to hear him talk about these things though.

http://www.paul.senate.gov/?p=issues

You can hear how he handles economic issues as Senator in Kentucky.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2181286666001

And you know he introduced an Audit the Fed bill in February of this year.

http://www.paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=694

A political group I am involved in keeps files on people and subjects. I don't see anything on the SS, Medicaid and Medicare, but we will have it at some point.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

WATCH LIVE: Heritage to Detail Amnesty Costs at 11:30 News Conference

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/05/06/...ws-conference/

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Video

Rand Paul On Rubio's Immigration Plan: "To Me, It's A Little Bit Like Obamacare"

SEN. RAND PAUL: I am worried that the bill before us won't pass. It may pass the Senate, may not pass the House. I want to be constructive in making the bill strong enough that conservatives, myself included, conservative Republicans in the House will vote for this because I think immigration reform is something we should do.

In this bill I am worried, though, and this is similar to what Senator [Ron] Johnson said, that it says, well, you have to have a plan to build a fence, but you don't have to build a fence. And if you don't have a plan to build a fence, then you get a commission. I don't know what happens if the commission doesn't do anything. That's the story of Washington around here.

To me, it's a little bit like Obamacare. And I hate to bring that up, but 1,800 references to the secretary shall at a later date decide things. We don't write bills around here. We should write the bill. We should write the plan. We should do these things to secure the border whether it be fence, entry, exit, we should write it, not delegate it. What's going to happen in five years if they don't do their job -- maybe not even them, maybe somebody else who doesn't do their job in five years, and the border is not secured? We will be blamed for the next 10 million that come here illegally. (Senate Homeland Security Committee Hearing, May 7, 2013)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...obamacare.html

I just want to see Obama throw another televised temper tantrum when it fails to pass. :lol

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

:thumbsup

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

I am so tired of all the political issues. I say send all the politicians in Washington to third world countries with no money. Revoke their citizenship's and don't let them back in the USA.

Re: The Truth About Immigration
 

Then, of course, our Constitution protects these people as well.