Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Never heard of her till today. Will she become a force for righteousness? Preaching against gay rights? Wonder if she has got the real thing?

Wonder whats the deal? Shes been a member of the Church Of God in Christ for years?

Many question about her and modern Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...d-hates-faots/

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I read the article about what she said at her concert in San Francisco.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Never heard of her.
You can't tell people that God hates *******.
He does hate sin, but loves the sinner.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

He loves us ALL, equally. Well said, Lacey!

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Amen! Thank You Jesus! :)
To think of what a rotten person I was
before the Spirit of God drew me to
Him! I can never thank Him enough
for his grace and mercy! \o/

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Jesus Christ:

The world can’t hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil. John 7:7

People need to hear more than just this nice God loves them. And he loves them equally to his own children.

Apostle Paul:

24:24 But after some days, Felix came with Drusilla, his wife, who was a Jewess, and sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ Jesus. 24:25 As he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was terrified, and answered, “Go your way for this time, and when it is convenient for me, I will summon you.” Acts 24:24-25

People need to be shook out of their comfort zone.

But its not clear that she even said "God hates fags".

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

No. I never heared of before now. She is a punk rocker claiming to be a Christian. She will get no traction outside of the WBC types. They are more than welcome to keep her unless she truly gets right with God.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

What is a WBC? Well I just heard of her today and looked at a few sites. So far it does not seem good but maybe something is happening NOW in her life.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Westboro Baptist Church=WBC

They protest at military and high profile funerals, thank God for dead soldiers, and spew hatred for anyone that is not one of them. Really blight on the name 'Christian'.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I never heard of her before yesterday.

Now that I have, I wish I had not. and NO there is no way on this earth that this goofball freakshow is going to be some kind of "force for righteousness". She never has been and being insulting to sinners in need of the Grace of God, is not now, nor will it ever be, a righteous act.

good grief.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

She didn't say anything that isn't said over Apostolic pulpits on a weekly basis, Ferd.......with the exception of one item......in bold...

According to the Bay Area Reporter:[14]


"She said she was tired of Christians hiding behind the cross. 'When they stop Prop 8 and force priests at gunpoint to marry gays, it will be the downfall of civilization and Jesus will come back,' she said.Loud gasps were heard from the audience. Many fans walked out. 'I believe the Bible is the word of God,' Shocked continued....In response to audience reaction, Shocked offered a Spanish prayer that 'God loves you. God loves us. God loves us all everywhere.' Later, in English, she said: 'God bless us everyone.' Many fans questioned the singer out loud: 'What are you saying?' With a broad smile, Shocked said 'You are going to leave here and tell people "Michelle Shocked said God hates faggots."' That comment produced more gasps and more departures. Two-thirds of the audience had walked out by this point."

This could be taken a couple of different ways, but my interpretation is that she was concerned that people would associate her with the Phelps (no relation) bunch, but she was only speaking the same opinion that many fundamental Christians have.........

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Sorry, but you are incorrect. While we may believe them to be in grave danger of Hell fire, the fact remains that we do not believe that God hates and just aches to destroy them. That view is held only by a few Hell bound, Bible denying, Gospel perverting hypocrites. And I can provide Scripture to bring my point home if you force me to. This woman is marching to the same beat as the WBC, And her judgment will be the same as theirs, unless they repent.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Well, Jay, please re-read my original post and let it sink in.....I said "other than the bolded part".......

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Sorry, my bad!! I had a long day yesterday and have yet to get to bed. I generally do not make those type of mistakes. That was a bit too obvious for a misfire as bad as mine. I still would disagree that it is mentioned as a theme in most churches most of the time. There are far too many other sins to preach and teach against. Namely the rest of the works of the flesh.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

No problem.

How many churches have you been in? I evangelized for a while, pastored for 6 years, assisted for many more......and trust me, somewhere in America, every week, this is preached against, as well as the other sins of the flesh......

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I am certain that it is mentioned somewhere on occasion in churches all across the world, but I do not believe that more than a few have it mentioned every week much less every sevice. God will leave no part of this nation without witness.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I have seen quotes that said:

"I live in fear that the world will be distroyed if gays are allowed to marry"

and

"you can go on Twitter and say M S says God hats F**s"

That is a bit different.


Then I read that for YEARS and YEARS she has refused to tell anyone what her own sexual orientation was.... that she has a huge lesbian following, then she shows up in San Fransisco and just gets down right insulting.

She didnt help the cause of Christ. in fact if anything, it was damaging.

It is one thing for people to properly talk about sin, in the setting of a church. It is entirely another to be insulting to people that are lost and in need of salvation.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Agreed.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

It is because of idiocy like this that the homosexual community is so very difficult reach for Christians. The more that this form of lunacy rages, the more kind, polite, tactful, and cautious we are forced to be. I have some people that I know who are gay. It was difficult to gain their trust, but to an extent I have. They have a whole culture built in an attempt to blunt this trash, however, it serves to promote the hateful Christian archetype. It is time that we started to remind some who wish to be called Christian that more is forbidden in the Bible aside from homsexuality.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

With friends like these, who needs enemies? Am I the only one who sees shades of the spirit that was cast out of the young lady who was following Paul?

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I've always rather thought it was mocking and insulting to laugh while saying, in a church setting, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." That isn't helpful for deliverance, IMO.

Just a another pet peeve of mine. lol

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Statements like this are akin to Epley's famous "Lost as two boys kissing" mantra.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

My problem with Michelle Shocked is this: She lied about the law.

Even if gay marriage is legal tomorrow in all 50 states, NO minister (as in NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA) will have to perform a gay marriage if he/she doesn't want to.

Period.

It is a LIE to say otherwise.

After all, it's perfectly legal for a minister to decline to marry an interracial heterosexual couple. Of course, that's likely to get the minister some bad publicity, but it's not illegal to tell the couple no. I think that's happened within the last year, even.

The Catholic church regularly tells heterosexual couples it won't marry them because they're living together, one party is divorced and hasn't had the marriage annulled, or there's some other impediment to the marriage. I remember a couple of decades back, a Catholic priest took a lot of heat for refusing to marry a paraplegic man to a woman, because he wasn't going to be able to produce children. It was an obnoxious decision, but it certainly wasn't illegal.

You can be against gay marriage, but PLEASE, do not lie about the implications of same in the law. Preachers are not going to be forced to marry anyone they don't want to.

N.B. This does not mean, if you hold a government office that involves issuing marriage licenses, that you're going to be able to get out of issuing licenses for otherwise legally-qualified people. You're working for the government, you are a representative of the government, and if you're intransigent about it, you'll likely lose your job. I wonder how many people quit or gutted it up after 1967 when the Supreme Court said that interracial couples could get married in every state in the Union?

(I'm also reminded in the slavery-owning South, African-American slave couples could not get legally married because they were property. It was only with emancipation that their marriages became legal. I have to wonder how many county registers gritted their teeth as former property came through and got licenses to marry?)

As for Michelle Shocked, I saw her once in Kerrville, Texas, back in the early 90s and hadn't thought or heard about her for years. As far as I'm concerned, lying about the implications of the law is a bad witness for Jesus. Bad, Michelle, bad.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I guess his quip here doesn't seem as alarming as it would in a church setting or does it? :hmmm

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I love going to Kerrville! :thumbsup

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Just for the record, she didn't say it WAS the law, she said that if it ever became the law, then Jesus would return.......

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I would agree, as long as it's kept here...........

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Won't happen, because we do have that pesky** First Amendment which protects ministers' rights to practice their religious rites (i.e., performing a marriage) without interference from the government.

**not really. We could be in France, where there is an official state policy of secularism and everything else is subsumed to it.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I thought you were going to disagree. lol I think we probably say a lot of things here we wouldn't in a church setting.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

You don't have to convince me :happydance

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Absolutely. The problem is, this is a public forum, and anyone with internet access has access to it..........

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

True...

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

So funny that people seem to think, "When it happens in AMERICA, Jesus is coming back!"

It annoys me that people are treating the gay marriage issue as if it a decision about gay people living or being together. Gay people are ALREADY couples. They just don't have any legal standing for legal purposes. IMO, God doesn't care about the legal part; He cares about the sinful part--which is already happening. So what is the big objection to civil unions/gay marriages even accomplishing?

Go out there with your picket lines and object to homosexuals living in the same house and sharing a bedroom--otherwise you just look silly. Signing a piece of paper doesn't do anything to increase the *sin value.*

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

IMO, there is no such thing as a 'gay' right. People with same-sex attraction have human rights just like the rest of us. They also have civil rights, as should every legitimate American. Sodomy is NOT one of those rights. It is a behavior, not a trait or characteristic.

I agree with Newt Gingrich that gay people have rights under our Constitution and so does the church, neither should infringe on the other.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

What really could happen is a church might get in serious trouble for not letting a gay couple use their church for a wedding, if that church rents the place out to others who are not of their exact faith.

this happens a lot and is a great source of income for a lot of churches. Now if they provide that public service, they will not be able to reject a couple on grounds they dont approve of their being gay.

that CAN certainly happen.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Right, and sodomy isn't illegal in this country and homosexuals (and some straight couples) already practice that. Objecting to gay marriage doesn't stop that from happening.

The real problem here is that the church and state have gotten tangled up on the marriage issue. Religious covenants of marriage should be the domain of the church; legal unions and household sharing should be a government issue, IMO.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I hate to say it, but Revelry, you are ignorant of current events, or you do not understand what they mean. In Arizona, the courts are deciding whether ot not an individual can refuse to photogragh a gay commitment ceremony due to religious reasons. The local courts were against her.

In Colorado, a baker refused to bake a cake for a lesbian commitment ceremony. They are now fighting for their right to live their religious beliefs. I believe that there is a similar case in Washington. Where is the protection of their liberty to offer the services that they will to whom they will? Their cities are calling a hate crime to refuse service based on LGBT status.

Hutchinson, Kansas passed an ordinance that any religious organization, that allowed the public who were not members of the congregation to utilize their facilities could not then use religious objections to prevent gay couples from using their facilities for their purposes. Where is the protection for religious objection?

People like you have from the beginning denied that the homosexual movement had a long term agenda that it was progressing toward. When requested acceptance we said they would want approval next. So it was. When they asked for adoption, we said that marriage was on the agenda. They asked for civil unions, you said that they would stop there, yet within 18 months, they were pushing gay marriage. When we said that when they got gay marriage they would want those who disappove to participate, you said it would be impossible. Well, the last bar that remains is to force uncooperative churches into compliane. How many ways do you think that they have co make that attempt? They have the courts and all of the power of the federal government and both major political parties behind them.

We are now told that we have freedom of worship, but that is a far cry from freedom of religion. The federal government is even beginning to decide what a church may or may not believe. If you do not believeme, start listening to what the president and his staff are really saying, and what it is they are not.

Once again I ask, where is the religious liberty again?

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

Ferd, as a former attorney, I am going to tell you that no church can be compelled to turn over their property for a use that is inimical to its belief system--in general.

There are exceptions. For example, if the church is renting out a government-owned building for church services, it cannot object if the governmental authority also chooses to rent out to gay and lesbian couples for marriage ceremonies. There could be other governmental entanglements that may oblige a church to allow its property to be used for marriages it objects to. But that's the key--GOVERNMENT ENTANGLEMENTS. If you don't have government entanglements, you have nothing to worry about.

It would require repealing the First Amendment to get to the point you're talking about. Did you not read the examples I gave? Churches can't be forced to marry interracial couples, or couples who do not meet the ecclesiastical standards set by the church. I live in a city with a Mormon temple; I can't tell the Mormons I want to get married in their temple, it'd absolutely not be allowed since I'm not Mormon.

I don't want to be argumentative about this, but I am tired of these scare stories. If preachers can turn down interracial couples, and all that happens is some (IMHO justified) bad press, the same thing can and will happen with gay marriage. And, to be blunt, we have gay marriage in eight states--can you name a single church where there is no government entanglement that has been forced to perform a gay marriage against its will? Please, bring it forward. I want to see it. I am tired of these rumors and (to be blunt) flat-out lies.

Re: Who Knows Michelle Shocked?
 

I agree, The whole marriage debate is framed incorrectly in order to cause division.

Marriage is not a legal contract, it is a natural construct ordained by the Author of reality. We CANNOT redefine it. The problem is that in a corporatist/socialist state, marriage is a legal contract created by the state. This should not be. Marriage is defined by God and enacted by the church, not the state. Eliminate the income tax, social(ist) benefits, etc. and the state would have no business with marriage.