Occam's Razor
 

Those that are familiar with philosophy have heard of the Occam's Razor principle. It states that "plurality should not be posited without necessity". Aristotle's way of saying it is, "The more perfect a nature is, the fewer means it requires for its operation."

Can we use this principle to demonstrate Oneness theology? Using this principal, the trinity can be pared down to a unity. Do we overcomplicate the gospel when it should be simple?

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Occams Razor can and should be applied to all doctrine. If a particular piece of church doctrine relies on only one particular verse, or even several versus in a row AND requires engaging in yoga-like contortions to get it to mean something and your particular denomination has built a large % of its Statement of Faith on it, perhaps it is NOT a heaven or hell issue, or most likely, not an issue at all.

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Amen! It should be mentioned that the doctrine of the Trinity was invented, chiefly to describe the Godhead to the ignorant. Is what I am finding. Really?

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Actually you preceded me in starting a very similar thread.

My question is do we try and make explanations for scriptures to make them fit our doctrine?

Re: Occam's Razor
 

I was raised in old time Pentecost and while there was Bible Study in the midweek service the Sunday service sermons were always 45 minutes to one hour of preaching with about 5 minutes max total being scripture texts and the rest the preacher's ideas / conclusions.

Too many times the handful of scripture verses used were taken out of context or totally misunderstand and misused.

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Why does something so important that effects all of mankind require a PhD to understand? On top of that, if your particular interpretation is seen as an error, you will burn in Hell! One would think that the salvation of mankind would be simple enough for every person to easily understand.

Just thinking out loud!

Re: Occam's Razor
 

We have made it all so difficult.

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Amen! Simplify it. Let the Holy Spirit lead you, imo. Pretty sure I have Scrip for that, too.

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I agree there is a lot of truth in your post.

I know of one example of a minister that taught what everyone was teaching on prophecy and he found a scripture that just wouldn't line up with the teaching.

I think that goes for most subjects. A LOT of scriptures are taken out of context. IMO

Re: Occam's Razor
 

"Hear o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord".

Can't get any more simple than that...

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Ha well you'll have the Trinny's flipping out, here in a sec. But oh well.

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Why is that? I have been going to Trinitarian churches for the last 7 years and they only preach and sing about One God and His name is Jesus Christ!

Mark where do you line up????

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:lol--on the other side of most 'Doctrines.' They--like politics--seem only to divide? But I am convinced that Jesus Christ is Lord, yes. I also know that Christ has more Names than we know.

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Trinny...doctrines? Never mind :lol

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You beat me to it.

it isnt that this is so simple, It is that this simplicity was so vital to those who first practiced it, that they wrote it on a piece of paper, put it in a box, and strapped it to their forhead when they prayed.

It has been complicated by people who cannot fathom simplicity and who have made God a skitzophrenic.

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
I am the one true God
and so am I
and so am I


der?
and

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Ferd I agree as some have taken away the simplicity of it and have dumb down even the most basic doctrines through a "revelation" given to a man instead of preaching and teaching what Christ Himself so preached and so taught even on the Cross.

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Until you look at certain other scriptures. (Don't ask me to cite them. You wouldn't agree that they complicate things for Oneness, anyway. :lol)

Re: Occam's Razor
 

:stirpot

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:heeheehee

Re: Occam's Razor
 

If we apply Occam's Razor to religion, wouldn't that mean that the more explanation needed for a particular belief, the more chance that it is in error? :stirpot

Re: Occam's Razor
 

One would think.

I've always said that if your particular doctrine requires translating the original Greek to Latin, then to Spanish, than to Klingon, then back to English in order to come up with something that can interpreted a certain way only by hanging upside down while looking in a mirror, on a Tuesday afternoon, than your doctrine may not be that strong. Or at least not as strong or important as you think it should be (hello "no pants on women!". LOL)

Re: Occam's Razor
 

:lol

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I do agree that there are many manifestations of God, Timmy. Jesus Christ is one, being the supreme sacrifice for the world.

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Manifestations that talk to each other, know different things, have different desires (not my will but thine be done), etc. :thumbsup

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I say again :stirpot

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:D

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How do we know Occam's Razor is valid? Is it valid in all cases? Are there any cases where the simplest answer is NOT the correct answer to a question?

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Yup...just get into physics, even a little bit, lol...
And even Christ has many more Names than most of us can know.

Re: Occam's Razor
 

http://www.weburbia.com/physics/occam.html

Re: Occam's Razor
 

So then I conclude that Occam's Razor does not mean a passage of scripture is to be interpreted according to the simplest interpretation. Nor does it mean that a doctrine which requires more thought or explanation or more effort to understand is 'obviously and logically' more likely to be in error as opposed to a simpler doctrine or one requiring less thought and understanding.

Some things are hard to understand. Some things require explanation. Some things require intense thought and study. God did not give us a Bible so we would not need to think. He wants us to think. He wants us to exercise our minds, and grow in knowledge of divine subjects.

While it may be simpler to tell a child that 'Santa is real' than to explain to them the whole Christmas ritual rigamarole, it doesn't make Santa real.

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Well, I would consider that a crime against the child; and I am led to post that Christians often venture into areas that they, we, simply are not equipped mentally to comprehend, which I believe is largely comprised of those things which we all have guesses for, or doctrines for, but really have no idea what the truth may be. The end of any of those discussions proves this point, imo; one is no more educated than at the beginning.

Re: Occam's Razor
 

The bolded part is a clear and concise explication of my response to your post.

:icecream

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Well, I was mostly agreeing with the prior poster, while venturing the guess that we often try to parse things that we just aren't meant to waste brain space on, which might seem vitally important to us, but just don't have a definitive answer, and never will; and then lie to our children about it to cover our ignorance.

Hours can be spent on what amounts to irrelevance. I have spent years of my life at this, most likely, at this point. :lol

While I agree with most of what you have to say, I believe that the salvation of all mankind is simple enough for all of mankind to understand and comprehend. Leave the details to all those folks with PhDs.

Besides doctrine, the Bible is also a wonderful roadmap of godly philosophy that we can apply to our lives as we try to live our lives pleasing to God. Making ourselves a better person and Christian by studying more complicated doctrine and biblical philosophies is good and recommended. At the same time, we should be careful not to disqualify those that can't read nor comprehend complicated reasoning.

Do the people in our churches completely understand our doctrinal stance and beliefs, or do they simply trust what they hear from our pulpits? I believe a very small percentage of saints AND PREACHERS could logically explain every belief. This applies to both Trinnies and Oneness folks. I do believe we tend to over-complicate the wonderful message of Jesus Christ!

Re: Occam's Razor
 

This is actually a perfect example of Occam's Razor (Or Gillete -the best a man can be!).

When explaining how toys get under a Christmas tree on Christmas night do you get into the story of Santa and the elves and flying reindeer and how he spends all year making the stuff, spying on kids to see who is naughty and nice, then answering questions about the physics of it all and how he is able to get to every kid in the world and THEN try to explain why every kids DOESN'T get presents. Also how can he be in ever street corner? Does he make copies of himself and if so, what marvelous technology is he using? "He is just Santa!" is the inevitable answer. The "Santa of the gaps" so to speak.

Or

Do you just say "Mom and dad" buys the stuff the day after Thanksgiving like all the other idiots and we spent the last few days wrapping and will put it under the tree once you finally get to bed.

What is the more plausible between the two?

Re: Occam's Razor
 

Oh ya? Well. . . . .

http://handyhomeowner.files.wordpres...ors-hammer.jpg

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:lol

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Is the mon and dad buy the gifts explanation more plausible because it is simpler? Or because it is actually true?

Occam's Razor, as I posted earlier, is not to be used to draw conclusions, nor to support conclusions, but is used to decide between two competing theories which predict the same event(s).

Therefore, it does not follow from Occam's Razor that 'the simplest explanation of bible verses is the correct one' nor does it follow that 'one does not need in-depth study to understand the bible'.