You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Philadelphia couple, who says they seek prayer not doctors, in court after second child dies; no charges yet

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/m...dler_Death.jpg

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/23...#ixzz2RIiai3Zs

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Are they sure the second child died because of no doctor treatment, or could it be ... that they are guilty of doing something to the children causing their deaths? Hmm. What an incredibly sad story.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

It is morons like this and others who allow children to die from easily treatable illnesses which causes politicians to overreact and force OTHERS to engage in more extreme treatments such as chemo, even when the odds of a favorable outcome of such treatments are FAR less than say, giving a little girl an insulin shot and thus saving her life.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Shaking my head. This is probably why it's so hard to preach and teach faith to people. God is the same as He was in the bible, as He is today. He's able to do the same miracles and healings that he did in the bible, as He is today.

When you talk to people about this, it's almost always the same response. That they didn't have the technology that we have now, so they had to depend on God, but now we have technology, more knowledge and science, so just about leave God all out of it, and depend on man(doctors, medicine). And then if the men (doctors) can't help you, then depend on God, when you should have been sitting down and depending on God all along.

And then when someone decides to strive to obey the bible, and depend on God, they're ridiculed for it, if it doesn't have the outcome that people think should be.

If someone is living all that they know to do that is right, and have faith in God, in what He is more than able to do, and prays for healing of something, and God doesn't will it to be so, and doesn't do it, I'm not going to charge God foolishly. God has His reasons for everything.

I'm not necessarily defending this couple, since I don't know anything about them really. Just talking out of irritation at this constant mindset.


I've been healed and delivered by God enough times, from small afflictions, to great ones, whereas I was almost close to death. And every time it was by God, and through God, and not medicine or doctors....

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

If Jesus had an issue with physicians, do you think He would have chosen one to be one of his disciples?

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Or at least told him to discontinue any treating of illness or injury.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I read this today on a news site before coming here. It caused me great sadness as this is one more thing that is a black eye on Christianity. Even though they represent an extreme minority of Christians in their beliefs and actions.

While I believe in religious freedom I think they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for what is now the second death of an innocent child they have been responsible for.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

What I want to know is if you aren't really supposed to rely only on God for things like healing, and if you do you will be called a moron by fellow believers, what are you supposed to rely on God for? I mean, in this life.

Reminds of when I poked some fun at Carrie Underwood's song "Jesus Take the Wheel", referring to the Carrie Underwood School of Defensive Driving. Someone pointed out that nobody actually would do what the song depicts - actually taking hands of the steering wheel and letting Jesus drive, and that you let Jesus guide you in other ways.

So now I'm wondering: in what aspects of your life does it make sense to let Jesus "drive"? And I'm thinking the answer is this: in areas where you wouldn't actually know if Jesus helped you or not. And in areas that wouldn't ruin your life if he didn't help you. Maybe he did help you get a good grade on that test; or maybe you studied. Maybe he pulled some strings to get you a promotion at work; or maybe you deserved it. :dunno

(BTW, I bet there are some people who would let go of the wheel and let Jesus drive in some situations! :lol)

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

The answer is simple. God is capable of instantaneous or progressive healing all by himself but he also has given man intelligence to make his life better through knowledge. I think it is a slap in God's face to ignore this gift of intellect and the benefits it can bring which is what someone is doing when they refuse to allow medical treatment.

Reminds me of the story about the man in the flood who refused a neighbors ride to safety in a 4 wheel drive SUV as the water started coming into the house on the grounds that "God would take care of him". A short time later as he was looking out the 2nd floor window because water had risen on the ground floor search and rescue came by with a boat and urged him to get in to be taken to safety. He once again declined saying that God would protect him. Before long he ended up on the roof of his house as the water continued to rise. a military helicopter came and hovered overhead and sent a rescuer down in a rope but the man sent the rescuer back up alone telling him that God would protect him.

The water soon completely covered the house and the man drowned. When he got to heaven in astonishment he asked the Lord "What am I doing here? I trusted you to save me!" To which the Lord replied "I sent a SUV, boat, and helicopter! What more did you want?

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I am saddened for the kids. It is a terrible situation all together.

But I think it is a dangerous situation to persecute or prosecute someone for holding to their personal beliefs. I have seen it said that they are a black eye for Christianity when, one might say, they held on believing God where most of us would have failed. And that is a black eye? If they would have done the same thing and God would have healed completely at the last moment then we'd be booking these people to speak at our churches.

The thing is that most of us would have had our kids at the doctors office. I would have. But I have a real problem with bringing legal charges against someone who simply held to their faith and belief that God would heal.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I certainly have faith in God to protect, save (in the physical sense), provide, and heal me. But I WILL jump in a boat during a flood, go to the doctor when my appendix ruptures, work in order to make money to buy food, and shoot first and ask questions later when my home is invaded.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

And wash my hands after going pee :happydance

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Like I originally said the problem here is that you have parents like this who refuse to do SIMPLE things to save their kids lives which then results in a backlash causing politicians to criminalize parents who choose to not go through with more extreme measures like chemo.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Which is why I am against criminal prosecution.

You can have your kids taken away from you if you don't force them to take Ridilan etc when the school decides they need them. These are bad and slippery slopes.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Are you kidding me?

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I knew that would start something. :girlytantrum

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

ha ha ha that is so disgusting :spit

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

The Amish do not get shots and finish school at 14. Should we put them in jail? hmmmm
personal freedoms mean nothing to some. :foottap

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Some of my grandchildren are not immunized and are home schooled. In Texas there is a religious exemption for immunizations.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I'm going to step out on a limb here and say that these people are just people living lives of faith according to their beliefs. I cannot label them abusive because they choose to trust God, neither can I say that they are a danger to their children. This is their beliefs and should be respected. They must believe this to their CORE to sit back and watch this happen. So, although I disagree with their choice, I respect their right to have it. Funny how we live in a society that would have allowed them to outright KILL their children in the womb but when they use prayer and trust God they are criminals. Sad.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

:thumbsup

:thumbsup

:thumbsup

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

An adult is free to let themselves die without medical care. It is a different case altogether when children who are too young to make that decision for themselves are involved.

We are not talking about them believing God for healing of a toothache and it not happening but the kid gets better. We are talking about a small child whose health was clearly deteriorating day by day to the point of death. The second child they have let die I might add.

I hope they get jail time and lose custody of the remaining children.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

An adult is free to let themselves die without medical care. It is a different case altogether when children who are too young to make that decision for themselves are involved.

We are not talking about them believing God for healing of a toothache and it not happening but the kid gets better. We are talking about a small child whose health was clearly deteriorating day by day to the point of death. The second child they have let die I might add.

I hope they get jail time and lose custody of the remaining children.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I personally know the couple who let their 11 year old diabetic daughter die when a simple insulin shot would have saved her. To this day they believe that her death was a satanic attack on them.

Exactly.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I will say I believe in Divine healing. I have been healed more than once. My Mother was a woman of great faith, but she never endangered her children.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

The satanic attack that was successful was their decision not to go down the path that would've provided an insulin shot to their child.

Jesus worked many miracles that did not need any medical help and the same goes for the apostles. However, when Jesus spoke in defense of miracles on the Sabbath; for an example he asked what man would not help to get his oxen free from being stuck in a ditch on the Sabbath (my paraphrase). I cannot help but note that he did not say do not help the oxen get out of the ditch, but only pray that God will free the oxen from the ditch.

I have seen miracles that were not only unassisted by any medical help but also overcame what professional medicine could not do for people. However, when it comes to denying medical help we certainly have the right to do so to ourselves. In other words someone diagnosed with cancer has every right to refuse medical help and be willing to die if God does not intervene.

What right society has to say when the faith of a sick child's parents has run its course, and it is time for society to intervene with medical help even when it is against the wishes of the parents is going to be a long argument.

If we allow parents to have the right of decision over life and death concerning abortions it seems to me only fair to give them the same rights over living children. On the other hand if you want to take away the right of the parents to have sole dominion over the care for their children, then you should offer the same protection to the unborn.

Just my $.02 worth

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Cindy, I don't think anybody on here is saying that God does not heal. I have been healed myself as a child with a stomach issue that was going to require exploratory surgery (they didn't have MRI's and CAT scans in those days).

However believing that God and does heal does not change anything that has been written here about those parents allowing two children to die.

Show me in the bible where God prohibits people going to a doctor? Believing that one should ONLY trust in God for getting better when sick is akin, in my mind, to those people who don't work, save money, use good stewardship of their money, etc because they believe God will take care of them. God expects us to do our part in taking care of ourself and those we are responsible for.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

So what do you feel should be in this and similar situations?

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I hope you get jailed for your beliefs too.

No, not really. ;)

Seriously, this is a matter of belief. Unless they are beating their children and abusing them, I can't judge them for this.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I would go a step further and say it is different to kill your children outright than believe that medical care is wrong.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

I don't think anybody here thinks that God prohibits doctors, but obviously, those parents did.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

The thing that people never seem to be able to see is where these things always... always... lead.

With continuing "progress" in the areas of DNA etc the time will eventually come when they will be able to tell what markers you have in your DNA for certain future ailments. Someday someone will be jailed because they didn't have their childs DNA tested and the child ended up dieing of some ailment that a test of DNA markers would have revealed.

We are already seeing people being threatened with losing their kids if they don't administer ADD/ADHD drugs to them. I am firmly against those drugs but if some teacher decided my kids was hyper I could be demanded to have them tested and if the doc decides they need psychotropic drugs... as a parent... I have no recourse but to give them the drugs or have my kids taken away from me.

If people do not believe in taking drugs then they should NOT be legally bound to do so. Societal opinion all too often trumps personal beliefs and parental authority.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Yes, I agree with this. I mean, do we ultimately trust that God knew what these people believed and do we ultimately believe that God decided when this child's (children's) life would end? Did he decide or did they.

Let me ask you another question. How many thousands upon thousands of people die every year taking prescriptions AS PRESCRIBED? They choose. Their doctors choose. Ultimately, we trust God.

We cannot say that medical intervention is God's will every time and demand others follow our beliefs. That's just wrong.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

That's a pretty profound statement right there.

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

Excellent post. :thumbsup

Re: You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .
 

love this!!!!