Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/...rone_flip_flop

Typical !!!

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

And Luz parrots talking points instead of researching for herself. Rand is not a hypocrite. If people would bother to listen to what he said, they'd understand that. Assasinating American citizens without a trial is not the same as a SWAT team member having to take out someone in the process of committing a life threatening crime, whether that SWAT team is using an AR15, or is operating a drone remotely. Intelligent, reasoning minds can discern the difference.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I was very encouraged with Sen. Paul's filibuster against CIA Dir Brenner when he lashed out against the use of drones. However, the statement he made on Tuesday really goes against what he laid out during the filibuster, and despite a nice effort to try and clarify his statement, it wasn't enough for me.

Here's what he said from the Senate floor during his filibuster:

"No American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court."

I agree with that.

Now here's the flip that he did on Fox Business Network on Tuesday:

"when you have an imminent threat, an act of crime going on."

Here's the first change. The Senator's speech during his filibuster focused on "enemy combatants" and terrorists. He did not speak about simple liquor store robbers. The focus was entirely on combatants, non-combatants, and terrorists who are US citizens and who should have their Fifth Amendment rights guaranteed.

Now suddenly he says a simple "act of crime" is enough to warrant drone usage.

"If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him."

Are you serious!?!? We've gone from protesting the killing of non-combatants and even alleged terrorists who are US citizens (because doing so would violate their Fifth Amendment rights) to fully advocating the execution of some dude robbing a liquor store for $50 in cash?

THAT'S something the Senator believes constitutes an imminent threat, which is enough to violate his Fifth Amendment rights? Robbing a liquor store for $50 in cash???

There are several issues with that statement that he did not address in his "clarifying" remarks.

1. Currently the CIA is transitioning control of the drone program to the Dept of Defense. Ever hear of the Posse Comitatus Act? The nutshell version basically says the Dept of Defense cannot use the Army, Navy, Marines or Air Force to act as law enforcement in the US. Only the National Guard and Coast Guard, which are under control of State Governors, are exempted from this.

So if the Dept of Defense is in control of the drone program, and the Senator is openly advocating the use of a drone to summarily execute a dude coming out of a liquor store with a gun and $50 in cash...he's advocating violating Posse Comitatus and establishing martial law.

That is a complete 180-degree turn from the position he took on the floor of the Senate during his filibuster.

2. He only said the guy was coming out with a weapon and $50 in cash. I assumed he meant the guy robbed the place. But just as the Senator was so concerned with a innocent citizen typing on a laptop at an internet cafe getting blown up, I'm concerned with a guy who hasn't broken the law coming out of a store with cash and a legal firearm getting blown away while not having committed a crime. There are too many instances of mistaken identity and police getting the wrong individual for me to feel comfortable with the Senator's statement.

3. What is the definition of criminal acts? Sounds like an easy answer, but it's not. The Boston bombing had a US citizen using a pressure cooker bomb. We've called that atrocity an act of terrorism. But what if he had used an assault rifle and killed 20 or 30 people and injured more? Would that still be considered an act of terrorism? I doubt it. Typically we equate bombs to terrorism. Since he's advocating lethal force for robbery, what about rape? Assault and battery? Grand theft auto?

That would make for interesting evening news report -- "Breaking news: The white Ford Bronco used by OJ Simpson to flee police has been blown up by a drone. Live with more, tonight at 10." Seems really dumb, right? No more so than his own example. "Tonight at 10, more details about the armed robber who stole $50 in cash from a liquor store and was blown up by an armed drone in Topeka, KS."

Next, what's an imminent threat and who is being threatened to justify this Fifth Amendment busting, Posse Comitatus breaking lethal force?

I think someone needs to take to the Senate floor and demand answers from Senator Paul on the statement he made. I'm only half joking here...he needs to re-clarify his clarification and explicitly state whether or not he approves of suspending Posse Comitatus and the Fifth Amendment rights of a stupid liquor store robber.

In that one statement, he not only channeled Senator McCain...he out McCain'd Senator McCain.

I do not #StandWithRand on his new drone position. Very upset. Very disappointed with his statement.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I subscribe to a number of YouTube channels and I particularly like this one. Just a young guy who lives in Flint, MI and gives his daily opinion on world events (as well as prepping and firearms -he's for em).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQB8X5LjlEs

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I'm not able to view this at work. Is he supportive of Senator Paul's statement or not?

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

He was a supporter during the filibuster, but not his inexplicable current statement.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

1. Robbing a liquor store is typically not a life-threatening crime
2. Currently all drone ops are conducted by the Dept of Defense. There are no SWAT teams with an armed drone. Which means to use an armed drone against an evil liquor store robber would require suspension of Posse Comitatus and a disregard for the robbers Fifth Amendment rights.
3. If the robber is indeed so dangerous that he requires immediate execution, it's always preferable for a police officer or SWAT member to do the killing than an armed drone operated by the military.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

Senator Paul still clarifying...updated his Facebook page an hour ago with a new statement:

His statement yesterday went well past this.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

He made a reference to "SWAT" type situations. maybe the Liquor store analogy was not the best. But a ratioanlly thinking person can see what he meant. There is no flip flop here. Even if there are currently no armed SWAT drones, there will be eventually, and he is simply heading off that issue. I'm glad he did. people are making a big deal out of nothing here. He's obviously not endorsing the military or any other federal agency involving themselves in local law enforcment matters.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

Indeed. And a drone only has 2 real options. Surveillance... or kill.

A drone isn't likely to be able to detain or capture. A good cop tries to capture the perpetrator so that he can be brought to a court of law and stand trial.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

Your use of "rational thinking" is out of place. To think rationally means to make a choice using a set of constraints; thinking reasonably. There is no rational basis for using a drone to execute a common thug. A rational person is the person like myself and others, questioning his statement. You and others are the ones giving talking points, while others like myself are actually stating specific problems with his statement.

If you compare his filibuster speech to this statement, the statement is diametrically opposed to his speech on the Senate floor. In fact, his statement yesterday surpasses the reason for his filibuster. If you remember, his reason for the filibuster was because the President and DOJ would not commit to answering whether or not they would use drones to kill US citizens who are enemy combatants on US soil.

Enemy combatants are NOT simple liquor store robbers. They're not just criminal thugs. Enemy combatants are defined in relation to terrorism, not theft.

His statement is not only a flip-flop, but it goes well beyond what the President and AG Holder were noncommittal about.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

WT poll asks readers if they support Senator Paul's modified position on domestic drones. 60% said no, 29% yes, 9% undecided and 2% other.

Link

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

All based on a false perception that he actually flip-flopped.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

Again, there are times when it is impossible to take someone into custody. I remember a few years ago a couple of bank robbers refused to surrender. They had on bullet proof vests and casually walked through a neighborhood shooting at cops with automatic weapons. I believe it was a police sniper in a helicopter that took them out. What difference would it have made if a cop operating a drone from a remote location had done the job instead? This is the kind of scenario Paul was referring to. I think he was very clear.

If you're OK with drones, that's your choice. I'm not ok with it

Regardless, Paul's speech from the floor was completely different than his statement yesterday. You can try to ignore the fact and talk about hypotheticals, but he changed his talking point from enemy combatants and terrorists to common criminals.

That's all I'm saying. He needs to clarify some things, because he opened a can of worms with that statement.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I see the headline: Thug Assassinated by Drone After $50 Robbery, 70 Bystanders Slain, President Rand Paul to be Impeached

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I take it you are joking.

Doubt he'd be impeached, but there would certainly be more than just the one criminal dead. Great headline.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

When it comes to Military stuff I am old school... send in the troops, slaughter the bad guys. Drones should be limiteted to intelligence gathering... nothing more.

If some **** needs killing, a person should do that with precision and intent.. not a robot.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I'm sorry, but that simply is not true any more than there would be more than one criminal dead if a cop from a chopper took out a bad guy with a rifle. The kind of drone strikes Paul referred to cops using would not involve hellfire missiles that are used in Afghanistan that do kill innocent civilians. The drone would house the rifle that-the police sniper would use from a remote location, nothing more. You guys are simply blowing this out of proportion.

Granted, I'm not advocating drone use by police. I'm simply pointing out the silliness and hysteria from some over Paul's comment.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I would have to agree. Everyone seems to be focusing on the "theft" than the point of the man having a gun in his hand. If we could send in a drone in the scenerio above how many officers lives would it have saved? During the pursuit of the Boston bombers a drone could have took out the vehicle with no officer lives lost.

Now, in the case of drone attacks in other countries their is a difference. If a drone here in a America see's the bad guy at home or driving his car then no, their should be no engagement by the drone. But in a live firefight situation, sure, if it will save the lives of our police officers then by all means, shoot.

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

I'd prefer to listen to what Rand has to say.

Rick Wilson, a Republican strategist out of Florida says this, “Rand Paul is from a more shoot-from-the-hip style, and there’s an appeal to that. But even when you're speaking bluntly, you still need to be cognizant that your message still reflects your brand,”

IOW, Rick wants you to also have a semblance of pandering when speaking honestly. LOL!

Sen. Paul appears on Fox's Hannity Show to discuss drones and immigration- 4/25/2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgAMjHUW1kU

Re: Rand Paul the Hypocrite!!
 

Here is a professional video set up to discredit Rand.

Rand has NEVER been against the technology and has NEVER said he opposed attacking ARMED suspects. He is AGAINST using Drones in targeted attacks and treating America as a battlefield when the person is not engaged in combat on American soil, but only "suspected" of planning an attack...as they do in Syria, Pakistan, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k83B...ature=youtu.be