You are my brethren
 

Dear friends

If you have been baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38), received the Holy Spirit and believe in one God, then I consider you my brethren.

I do not care if you are male or female.
I do not care what is your race.
I do not care what is the color of your skin
I do not care what nationality you are from.
I do not care what country you live in.
I do not care if you are poor, rich or middle of the road.
I do not care what is your denomination.
I do not care if you are a vegetarian or a meat eater.
If you are a man, I do not care if you shave, wear a beard, or a mustache.
If you are a woman, I do not care if you wear slacks or a dress, long hair or short hair.
I do not care if you believe in woman's preachers or not.
I do not care if you believe like I do. Well, I wish you all believed like I do, but then again every preacher wants everyone to agree with him.

I refuse to judge any of you for differing in your beliefs from mine, I will not send you to hell for not believing like I do, My job is not to judge anyone, that is God's Job, not mine.

I am not going to get in a pulpit and send anyone to hell for this or that, actually I am not going to send anyone to hell for anything for I have zero power to do that. Only God can do that.

Having said all that, I will say that I will continue preaching what God has given me to preach, if some want to believe well, and if others do not want to believe, oh well.
I know that some will disagree with me in my doctrines, but my job is not to force people to believe as I believe or to get mad because you do not believe what I preach and then condem you for not seeing the scriptures as I see them.

Now you all know where I stand.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I agree with everything that starts with "I don't care.." Though I noticed "I don't care if you are gay or straight" was missing

I say what you say... without all the qualifiers,

Re: You are my brethren
 

The Thread begins with the statement: "If you have been baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38), received the Holy Spirit and believe in one God, then I consider you my brethren."

Exactly how does the comment, "I don't care if you are gay or straight," fit in with that statement?

Just curious where you are coming from.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I believe I was clear about saying I agree with everything but the first statement.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Well...

Re: You are my brethren
 

Excellent post!:thumbsup

Re: You are my brethren
 

I can't speak for the sword that is flaming but for me I DO care if someone is gay because unlike the beard and other man made "standards" he referred to in his post homosexuality is something explicitly prohibited in the bible. So we should love gay people but not say we "don't care" if one is gay. We do. We want them to not engage in this sin.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Amen!

Re: You are my brethren
 

I was speaking more to the exclusionary nature of the post. In this case I will say... my bad, because he alludes purely to Pentecostals, not humanity as a whole.

Flaming's definition of brother/sister only extends to members of this particular creed, mine goes somewhat beyond it to encompass... well everyone.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Amen. I was going to say that the orig post started with a really big word; If...

While the past couple of years of study have caused me to see more doctrine of Original Sin at work there, a plainer way to put it might be that Christ ate dinner with lepers; a death sentence in that age. While I understand the If, I can't empathize, only sympathize, wadr.

Re: You are my brethren
 

But, props for not adding to Acts 2:38!

Re: You are my brethren
 

Well... I love you no matter who you are... sinner, saint, butcher, baker, candlestick maker. Even if you are gay... your sexual attractions are none of my business but even if they were, like all struggles and temptations in other's lives.. I'm sure they hurt you a lot more than me... and well... I've got my own issues.... and I'm working those out, with fear and trembling... but if I can help you let me know because I believe that is the reason, really the most important reason, I will drow my next breath. To be there for you if you have need of me. I believe it's the reason we are all here at all.

I can't even address the 'send you to hell' business because it's so alien to me anymore... literal hell... the idea that someone could have or would want the ability to 'send someone there' in thought or word... just too horrific... I avoid contemplating it at all...ever. I am not sure I could even sit somewhere anymore that they expound on it...

Maybe I'm a greasy grace girl now... or maybe when God sees where I'm at now... He smiles... and I like to focus on what makes God smile.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Universal reconcilliation? (if so you guys save a ton of money since you don't need to send missionaries to spread the gospel!)

Re: You are my brethren
 

This statement to me sums up why there is no fear of God left almost anywhere.

After all did not Christ preach about Gehenna Fire? He meant it as motivation to turn from sin and obey him. Nowadays people seem to think the devil invented Hell.

Now as far as burning in flames for billions and trillions of years indeed that is false. The Gehenna Fire is meant to destroy evil souls not let them have eternal life. Rather it ENDS life.

Todays Churches and "Christians" have no credible message of eternal judgment. And indeed practically no one preaches it anymore at all. Yet most who think they are going to Heaven will actually be going there.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I meant "going there" as to Gehenna or "Hell".

Re: You are my brethren
 

I do not agree that my stance is why there is no fear of God or at least for me. I do not fear God because I am a blood bought child of the King and have nothing to fear from my Heavenly Father.

Theologically I do not believe in an eternal tormenting hell because I do not believe in an immortal soul except as it is given, as by far the largest gift, to people upon being filled with the Holy Spirit. Without the infilling of the spirit all humans will face a final destruction, not an eternal tormenting hell... but hey have it your way, I'm easy.

I simply refuse to play the game where we all spend significant energy trying to figure out who will wind up annihilated (or in hell) for theological beliefs different than our own... A) Because it's not up to me. B) Because it a huge waste of precious time. C) Because it is depressing as hell. D) Because it causes extreme damage to the Kingdom by being divisive. And lastly because it just makes people sound pompous and stupid. I am not Jesus and neither is anyone else here.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I wonder if you don't both agree, when MTD's word 'eternal' is redefined in the light of "Understand I AM;" and T2W's word 'fear' (more doctrine of Original Sin, there) is redefined "unique respect?"

Re: You are my brethren
 

Perhaps...

Re: You are my brethren
 

Baptized with the baptizor intoning Jesus....check.

Received the Holy Spirit.....check.

Believe in one God....check.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I like what Johnny James would say: "You may be my cousin, but you're not my brother unless you have His name." :lol

Re: You are my brethren
 

Awesome post!! :thumbsup :yourock

I believe a few here are missing a key point. This is not a general statement about people, this is specific about who is considered a brother or sister.

Just as I would not consider a murderer, thief, adulterer, etc as a brother/sister in Christ; so also I would not consider a homosexual as a brother/sister in Christ. The "in Christ" being the key phrase. They are in sin, not in Christ.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Hummm... lemme see... how do I know you as my brother or sister in Christ?

1. You profess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life and are able to give an honest testimony of how the Holy Spirit changed you. 2. Your actions do not belie those words. 3. If you slip you are quick to repent, be reconciled, and move back to your right place on your journey, in Him.

Lots of other things are bonus and make you more interesting to discourse with and more trusted for counsel as you mature in your walk... Some of those things are submission to believers baptism, giftings, correct theology, a solid knowledge of the Word, good works... I like 'em all... but the basics are listed above. :)

All the rest is you as a person and I really appreciate the diversity of God's handiwork. The colorfulness of our differences makes planet earth a great place to hang out for a lifetime and learn about each other. :)

Re: You are my brethren
 

Ok, well then how does being 'in Christ' (with you, supposedly) change your attitude/actions toward...me, say, as opposed to if/when I were not deemed to be 'in Christ,' and how is this...judgement made, exactly? Ty

Re: You are my brethren
 

Or, to rephrase; you wouldn't be caught dead eating at a leper's house?

Re: You are my brethren
 

Mmkay. Thanks.

Re: You are my brethren
 

:lol ya. I'm reminded of how child molesters are treated in prison, by the rest of the convicts; as though they were more guilty, or something. It's just human nature, and Christians do it, too.

Re: You are my brethren
 

:bump

Re: You are my brethren
 

Has nothing to do with my statement.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Hmm; I don't see how it possibly could not; but understand that while this might seem personal, you espouse a popular pov. I am just asking you to (try to) defend it. This Q, below, might be more to the point.
and, good luck :lol

Re: You are my brethren
 

Sorry, the question is a bit murky, but I think I get the gist.
1) what's the difference in my attitude/actions between those I consider brothers/sisters in Christ and those who are not;
2) how do I make a judgement of who is 'in Christ'?

Let's start with the second question. I didn't make the judgement, the Scripture did.

About 'in Christ':

Rom 8 describes being 'in Christ' as "those who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit."

2 Cor 5:17 says "if any man be in Christ, he's a new creature. Old things are passed away and all things are new."

Being 'in Christ' is as described in John 15 -- thru salvation, we are grafted into the vine.

A person in sin, whatever the sin is (murder, theft, adultery, homosexuality, etc), cannot, by scripture be 'in Christ.' Sin separates mankind from God, there is no fellowship. Because of that, a person who is in sin cannot be a brother/sister of a believer. It's not possible.

About attitudes/actions towards a brother/sister vs one who is not:

Paul said don't be yoked with unbelievers. 2 Cor 6:14-15 "What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Fellowship. Communion. Concord (agreement/harmony/treaty). Agreement.

These words express being united for a purpose, or having a shared view or goal. Paul's word picture is of two beasts being yoked together to walk together, one would assume to work together for a common purpose.

My attitude or action changes only with regard to the common goal or purpose. Paul says to let your speech be full of grace, seasoned with salt; and in another scripture he says to speak the truth in love. I am friendly with everyone, believers and non believers; but I do not have a common purpose or common goal with a non believer or person living in sin. This is why I say that someone who is not 'in Christ' cannot be my brother/sister.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Ok, well answered; but we have come a ways from the days when 'church' was the community we lived in. Practically speaking, we are in a different world now. So I'm curious how you might judge a stranger with whom circumstances have thrown you together, with this model? What I see happening in reality is that folks with this mindset tend to exclude all as brothers until some arbitrary, and usually pointless, benchmark is perceived to have occurred in the part of the other; rather than the other way around?

Re: You are my brethren
 

"I thank you, God, that I am like the rest of men."
Thomas Merton, Bystander

Re: You are my brethren
 

As Apostolics we have to establish a common ground as to what constitutes an apostolic.
Everyone needs to define for themselves who is acceptable as a brother, how much difference can someone have before he or she is not longer considered an Apostolic.

I am fully aware that within the Apostolic ranks there is a wide diversity, and some brethren lean too far this way or that way.

There are some apostolics that are so strict in their definition of who really is an apostolic, that they basically only consider brethren those who only are in their same denomination or even just those in their own church.

However I am of the point of view that Apostolics is more than just a single denomination, my kind of Apostolic beliefs encompass brethren that are from different denominations and even some that others would consider almost heretical.

Re: You are my brethren
 

Hmm, well I would say that it is precisely this that you cannot successfully do...

Or, what is the practical end result of this? Turning away from those that the Holy Spirit has put in your path.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I come from one of those churches that believes that they are really the only ones going to heaven. It's a huge reason that I left.

My view of God and His desire to see all saved and His ability to accomplish His desire has really changed. Its not that I think much differently doctrinally, It's that now I think God can get around my doctrine and everybody elses just fine to see His will done.

Re: You are my brethren
 

The Apostle Paul warned us of false "Christians" those who pretend to be Christians and are instead ravening wolves who bring in damnable heresies, and to stay away from such.

We have an abundance of false "Brethren" even within the Apostolic Camp.

They come in a saying they believe the Acts 2:38 message but then they start undermining it. They say they believe in one God, but pretty soon they are starting to talk like Trinitarians.

Those wolves come in in sheep clothing, they pretend to be pure believers but in time they little by little reveal themselves by deviating from the path of truth and taking others along their crooked path.

Re: You are my brethren
 

If you are born again through the Acts 2:38 message, I call you my brother or sister. I don't care if you've identified yourself as gay, bi, or straight. In my eyes, you're a human being in need of the Saviour just like me. And there is far far more to you as a person than your sexuality. I'll continue to love you and to share Jesus with you. I will warn you (as I would any brother or sister in Christ) of the dangers inherent in many sins. I'll encourage you to lay down all the works of the flesh that hinder you spiritually and keep you from feeling God's love. I will not cease to love you should you fail to understand some things or have questions. I will not cease to love you should you struggle or fall. I'll encourage you to confess any sin and to go boldly to the throne of grace. I'll encourage you in the way of Christ as best I can, knowing and openly admitting that I too am a fellow traveler on this journey, having my own sins and weaknesses to confess before the throne of Abba Father.

Re: You are my brethren
 

I call all who confess Christ as their Lord and Savior my brother/sister in Christ. For we all have fallen short of the Glory of God. In my walk I still believe Apostolic's our my family in the Lord even if they consider me a backslider.

I lose sleep when I eat a hamburger to late in the evening but I don't lose sleep over the judgment of man in my walk.

Don't kid yourself we all look through the dimly lit mirror. I have seen and been part of the power of God in those churches that you guys would not call your brother in Christ.

Religious snobbery on both sides!

Re: You are my brethren
 

AMEN!

How can a person who identifies themselves as gay or bi be born again through the Acts 2:38 message? It doesn't work.

Repent: if they're still identifying themselves as gay or bi, which both are in conflict with the Word, repentance is not complete.

Be baptized: anyone can be baptized, to be sure, but without the aforementioned repentance being complete, baptism is just a bath and remission of sins undone.

Ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost: if repentance was not done, and remission not complete, I don't believe the Holy Ghost can fill them.