Just Curious
 

I read this on another forum I am part of. I would be interested in reading your responses to it. What do you think of what they have to say? Valid? or No?

"THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT CONVICT BORN-AGAIN BELIEVERS OF THEIR SINS! This is a Lie of the devil! The Holy Spirit ALWAYS Glorifies Jesus Christ and HIS FINISHED WORK on the Cross. Jesus has already been punished for Every Man's Every Sin on the Cross! God does NOT punish sins twice! If you have given your life to Jesus Christ for Him to use for HIS PLAN for you, then YOU ARE COMPLETELY FORGIVEN OF ALL YOUR SINS; your past, your present, and your future sins, now and forevermore. “I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds, I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE. (Hebrews 8:12) Jesus does not want you asking for forgiveness for sins that He has already paid for and 'Remembers No More'. Jesus wants you to be constantly aware of His Free Gift of HIS Righteousness that He Died for You to Have. “If by one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man (Adam), MUCH MORE will those who RECEIVE THE ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND THE FREE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS Reign in Life through the One Man Jesus Christ!” (Romans 5:17)

The Holy Spirit convicts Born-again Believers of their RIGHTEOUSNESS IN JESUS CHRIST, now and forevermore, because of what Jesus has done for us, and FINISHED, on the Cross! The Holy Spirit ALWAYS GLORIFIES JESUS AND HIS FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS. Convicting a Born-again Believer of sin that he is already forgiven of, sin that Jesus remembers no more, is NOT the Holy Spirit's New Ministry under the New Covenant of Grace! (John 16:7-11) The Holy Spirit does NOT CONVICT A PARDONED MAN! Born-again Believers, RECEIVE THIS GRACE. Receive Jesus Christ's UnEarned and UnDeserved Favor Toward YOU. You are the Righteousness of God In Christ! (2 Corinthians 5:21) Jesus has Taken Away ALL your sins and GIVEN you HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS! Jesus is Our Sacrifice. This is the Jesus Christ's NON-CONVICTING Good News, the Gospel of Grace! Hallelujah!"

Like I said, I am interested in your reactoin to the above. What role does conviction and repentance play in the life of a believer?

Re: Just Curious
 

Greasy grace...

Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation

Re: Just Curious
 

Sounds like something between new age and universal salvation without any judgment or accountability.

Defeats the entire purpose of the resurrection.

I understand that eternal torment for everyone who has not won the predestined lottery for the blessed alone has gone way to far............ it does not help to push the pendulum to the other extreme

Re: Just Curious
 

The author is equivocating the word "convict"

Re: Just Curious
 

The Holy Spirit is "God". Of course he convicts of sin. He is always opposing it.

Re: Just Curious
 

The Bible says,

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

We must walk in the light, the light of the Holy Spirit. If we do this, God is patient, long suffering, gracious, and merciful to us... not imputing sin... willing to change us upon prayers of repentance and confession. However, if we walk away from the light of the Spirit and depart from the way of the cross... we will eventually come out from under the covering of the blood.

It isn't easy to lose your salvation. Christ died to be a sure foundation we can depend upon in our human weakness. Grace is there for the most terrible sin. God rejoices in forgiveness... forgiving sin and cleansing from sin brings God the highest glory.

In my opinion... the only "greasy grace" is that noting of grace in which you can easily slip through God's fingers.

Re: Just Curious
 

Bad theology in my opinion.

Re: Just Curious
 

I have always agreed with the above...and just recently have begun to...well, been convicted, actually, that possibly the common (OP) opinion here...is a product of the doctrine of Original Sin, like so much else we believe. You say bad theology, but I wonder. It reflects, basically, Christ's treatment of sinners while He was here physically (which btw He prolly is anyway-Melchezidek has most likely not left the building). Christ may have admonished, and even (indirectly) 'convicted,' but think about it--even the word 'convicted' is the verbiage of the Accuser. So I wonder.

Re: Just Curious
 

Certainly a fine line....

Re: Just Curious
 

I too thought that the author was off base. I want to believe that they were sincere and simply trying to combat the sense of condemnation that many believers live under. I just think they went too far in the other direction.

Some people use the words "cheap grace." I personally don't like the term for grace cost Him everything. But it makes the point.

Re: Just Curious
 

Larry l. Yaes is the most stupid person to have a thd and a phd.
But he has sifd.
Yahushua in the o. T. In ezekiel 18:-24 makes you err in tt which you tate.
When a righteous man sins (god) yahushua does not remember any of his righteousness.
Then all our fuure sin could not be forgiven.
None are for given unless we repent [ turn from the life we are living, ding all those abominations listed in the scriptures] that yahushua states thru the prophets.
As the cutting down a tree and putting gold and siver and the star on it.
You do know the star of molech and remphan.
We are taught to do the same traditions that the israelites were doing when yahusua put them in captivity for seventy years doing according to isaiah, jeremiah and others.
Why do you think we have to change our ways for?
If the son died for all my sins past present and future i could live any way i want to and still go to heaven.
Remember repentance is to change directions.
Not ask for, forgiveness.
I cold go on but this is enough for now.

Re: Just Curious
 

Thanks Precis! That made my night. I appreciate the correction but those were not my views I posted. It was written by someone on another forum. I was simply asking for various reactions to it. I happen to agree with you. Well, not the stupid part.Thanks for adding you thoughts.:thumbsup

Re: Just Curious
 

The best thing about the internet is that you can see people who can't spell, can't form a good sentence, and use horrendous grammar post their thoughts about how other people are stupid.

Re: Just Curious
 

Like "Why do dumb people have Smart Phones?"

Re: Just Curious
 

I just always assume they are typing with their thumbs from some dinky keyboard on a phone... 'cause that's what my posts look like when I try to do them from my iPhone, ROFL!

Re: Just Curious
 

That is exactly what every believer should be hearing from the Holy Spirit. And out of that belief and fact, there will be an outflowing of righteousness. Believers biggest problem is that they don't know who they are!!! Therefore, they wallow around in unbelief and doubt, and not living up to whose they really are. :highfive

Re: Just Curious
 

We don't have a problem going TOO far with Adam's curse, now do we???
Why are we so afraid to trust the work of the cross???? Maybe the church should try preaching the GOOD NEWS, it has not worked very well to preach the BAD NEWS.

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he!

Re: Just Curious
 

Crak, I agree with you on that. I think the greatest problem facing the Church today is a dominant "sin consciousness" as well as the failure to understand the finished work of Christ and who they are In Him. Our whole ministry is based on teaching those truths.

That being said however, it is a mistake to tell someone that as a believer the Holy Spirit will not point out their sins and they can just go merrily on their way with unconfessed sin in their lives.

God does forget our remmitted and confessed sins. But the scriptures are clear that He remembers quite well the sins we fail to confess. If anyone doubts that just read Revelation2:4, 5 ,20 and 3:3, 15-18.

We are Sons of God, but those whom God loves He chastens.

Hebrews 12:7-9
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had and confessed earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?

Re: Just Curious
 

Yup...this, to me, is the direct and intended result of the doctrine of Original Sin. I feel convicted when I even contemplate sin, as a believer; but I don't think that it is the Holy Spirit convicting me, but my conscience. Looking for relevant Scripture for this...got any? Ty

Re: Just Curious
 

I do believe that the Spirit will continue to convict us of our sins. However, it will not indict us of sins that have been covered by our sincere repentance. If we have reject our past sins and turned from them, then we should not be under any conviction or condemnation because of them. However there is a danger to this individuals doctrine because the writer of Hebrews says, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb. 6:4-6)

Re: Just Curious
 

That doesn't mean that...

Re: Just Curious
 

Actually, it does mean exactly that. Those who blatantly commit sin, and will not repent will eventually find themselves in this exact position, and I have observed it.

Further, the writer lays additional stress on this thought by saying, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, 'Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord.' And again, 'The Lord shall judge his people.' It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:26-31)

He is very specific as to the group that he is addressing. These are those who are have been filled with the Holy Ghost, baptized in Jesus' name, but are living in unrepented sin. These then fall under the judgments of God. There are many other passages that reiterate this same theme. Among them are Romans chapters 5 and 6.

Re: Just Curious
 

Well, "...those whom God loves, He chastens" would seem to be pretty clear; but I see God taking 'credit,'--if you will--for things that we would say were self-inflicted; Egyptian deaths @ the first Passover, etc., and I am brought to mind of how someone very close to God might 'convict' someone who is not--just by being in the room...

Re: Just Curious
 

At the least, "...Judge not, lest you be judged" would seem to over-arch here? It is def God's job, and not mine, to convict someone else of a personal sin; or for that matter, a, public one, @ "turn to him the other cheek also."

Re: Just Curious
 

This is good ^^^

,,,,,,,,,,, "and the swine that was washed returns to her mire"

Re: Just Curious
 

No, Jay. The writer of Hebrews was addressing those who turned their backs on Christ to return to the law.

Re: Just Curious
 

Actually, the first portion of my last post refutes your position. "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins...." (Heb. 10:26) This is clearly stating that there was one sacrifice for sin, but it will not cover those sins willfully committed after the initial salvation experience. The Bible says that if we fall, we then have an advocate, but this is to deliberately stray. At that time, there is no covering until there is a renewal of repentance.

Re: Just Curious
 

Well; so was their 'sin' in returning to the (ceremonial) law, then?

Re: Just Curious
 

My post is directed to "Jay" - I'm not a Bible scholar and I have no information regarding your Biblical knowledge - however, if you are familiar with Dr. Daniel Segraves, (in whom I have the utmost confidence in his study of the Bible) - you might want to study his commentary on Hebrews. Paul was actually speaking to those who wanted to return to the law and offering sacrifice.

If you really believe it like you are coming across - then are you saying that a backslider cannot return to the Lord? :foottap

Having said all that: I do not believe that grace allows us to live any old way we want after receiving salvation and I do believe that the Lord will "convict" us (for lack of a better term) when we sin and we do need to repent over it. All it takes is a sincere, "I'm sorry, forgive me, Lord" and the work is done. He ALREADY paid the price for ALL our sins.

JMHO

Re: Just Curious
 

No. He is still addressing the same thing.

All sins are deliberate. Quote me.

Re: Just Curious
 

Their sin was returning to the law. To return to the law is to turn one's back on Christ. What they are saying is that the blood of Christ is a common thing. That is why there is no sacrifice for their sins. I'm sorry. I said that I was going to leave and not discuss this kind of stuff.

Re: Just Curious
 

You are right, mostly. Where I disagree is at repentance. I only believe in one act of repentance at conversion. To repent is to turn around. As mich as some people sin, they would be spinning in circles.

I don't believe that when most believers sin that they are turning away from God, requiring a turn back to Him. I believe that they were going forward and fell (sinned), requiring a confession of sin.

Re: Just Curious
 

Okay I'm done.

Re: Just Curious
 

Hmm; have to think about this one...the semantics kind of get in the way here.

Re: Just Curious
 

I can see where you are coming from and re-reading my post, I should have used "confess" instead of "repent"; however, I do believe that at that confession you need to ask for forgiveness.

There is a difference is "living in sin" or "continuing in sin" and "committing a sin" - or "falling and getting back up".

Re: Just Curious
 

Purchase eye salve so that you can see.

Re: Just Curious
 

No.

Some sins are done out of ignorance


1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief

God even made special provisions for sins done out of ignorance

Lev.4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;


In Heb 6 it is speaking of those who despite having tasted of the power of the Holy Spirit have returned to sin as a dog that returns to his vomit, God is not going to through guilt and conviction lead them into repentance and "Godly sorrow for their sins. Consequently they "crucify Christ afresh" in their heart by despising God and returning to sin

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death

God is the one who leads us into repentance but for those who prefer to fall back the lusts of their flesh he lets them have what they wish for

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Blessings

Doug

Re: Just Curious
 

:lol well come on; 'sinning' is 'turning away from God,' in a very real sense...