Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

So, I have liked David K. Bernard on FB to see what all he has to say. I have seen several "stats" regarding growth in the UPC and different figures regarding oneness people versus trinitarians, "stats" about people that speak in tongues versus those that don't. I haven't done the sutdies on the topics he has been posting about but the number seem very off.

"Scholarly study: 'Evangelical churches are filling up with people who have never had a genuine experience of transformational conversion"


"Trinitarian Pentecostal pastors: most agree there has been a loss of spiritual gifts (70%) & gloss of Pentecostal identity (60%)" -- I presume he meant "loss" and not "gloss" but that was a direct quote.

Do any of you all follow his FB or Tweets? He seems to be giving wild info. Am I alone in feeling that way?

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

He's a very smart guy... but not a very balanced guy. I quit following him when I quit the UPCI.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

I follow him on twitter and have also found his information to be untrue.

I don't doubt this. For the most part, churches and ministers focus more on the generic "ask the Lord into your heart" prayer, which is ok as a starting point; but they fail to move forward into receiving the power of God in their lives, which is the Holy Ghost. Transformation can only happen when God indwells a person through the HG.

Jim Cymbala and others have lamented the lack of the HG in the church today. Cymbala stated there are two sides on this (paraphrase): one which is deep on Scripture, but is afraid of the experience (HG); and the other which is all about the experience, but shallow on Scripture.

I agree. A lot of churches seem afraid to promote the HG because of the negative stigma others have given it.

1) were there footnotes with sources for these stats?
2) I do believe there's been a loss of gifts; as to loss of identity...what's the definition of identity being used? The UPC version, or the actual definition?

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

I had an old Pastor who would always say don't be afraid of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, and then he would go on to say He (the Holy Ghost) is not weird but people are weird. :heeheehee

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I would sure have to agree with that sentiment. If we could get our emotionalism and flesh out of the way long enough, we might just see a real move of the Spirit. Not discounting the fact that He is moving among us (generic "US"). Just not at the level either He or We would like to see:heeheehee

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I can't stand such claims without citation from a source that has done research

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Prax I can tell that about you in your posts. Trust nothing until it can be proved. In the Navy we called it inspect what you expect. :icecream

Went to DKB's FB page and didn't find any kind of source listed, which is disappointing, considering he's authored books and should know to cite sources.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

It drives me nuts because I have asked for links to the info, study, or even a summary of the studies. Got nothing. I went so far as to comment on one them something along the lines of, "I am 100% sure that these figures aren't accurate."

I almost used a rough quote from Anchorman, "80% of the time DKB is wrong 100% of the time."

I find it amazing that people in the movement continue to get away with actions, fact stating, and flat out lies without any recourse. Now, these stats may all be accurate, but they seem very inaccurate. That is like Stoneking saying that when Pentecostals come to town that the sales on porn in hotels increases...unless he knows because he is the one buying them (TIC) there are no true facts to support the claim.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

I know, right!?!?

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The problem, as others have pointed out, is that he isn't posting sources to back up any of his assertions. He may very well have sources, but isn't taking the time to provide them.

I don't believe he's deliberately posting false information, though. That would be an unreasonable assumption. On twitter people have to keep their posts concise, so it's hard to get a quote + a citation in a single tweet. A lot of his Facebook posts are reposts from twitter, so they're going to be limited on info.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

Perhaps, but a subsequent tweet with the citation would be great, but then again many OPS don't believe in anything being "subsequent to the truth" :)

Went through all his comments about the scholarship on modern Pentecostals and in one he cites his own article in the January 2013 issue of the Pentecostal Herald as the source. I neither have the magazine nor an online subscription to it, but I'm sure he has footnotes in that article as to the real source of the statistics given.

Again, I don't disbelieve the quote mentioned at the beginning of the thread. There is a lack of gifts, a lack of true transformation, and a lack of Pentecostal identity...and I don't mean the UPC outward, extra-biblical standards identity.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

Heard Stoneking say that about porn in reference to Charasmatics. Has he really been heard saying "pentecostals"?

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

It strikes me as being a bit off is that 70% feel the gifts are lacking, but only 60% feel there is a loss of in the Pentecostal Identity area. I would think that would be the other way around... I would think that more would feel the indentity is different than the lack of gifts. I could be wrong...

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

I would like to read this article.

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These "so called moves of the spirit" or folks receiving the HG among oneness ranks....my last several years of witnessing this around oneness circles was often a shallow event. There was a lot over zealousness at times. Not to be confused with the real thing.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

I would say that charasmatics are pentecostals so... I wouldn't know if he feels the same, but when I heard it I understood it to be pentecostals in general. Regardless, he is a nut as far as I am concerned and cannot be trust with stats of any sort - that is my opinion. I appreciate that his ministry touches people's lives, but not mine.

This isn't about Stoneking, but just the misuse of misinformation. I don't know that DKB would blantantly lie. In fact, I hope he isn't. I would just like to see the proof. This is a reason I don't watch ANY of the political shows because they rarely show proof of any sort aside from biased info. Fox shows info obtained from conservatives almost exclusively and while others use biased opinions too.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

I know the man is very smart. So are a lot of leaders trying to promote their own cause. And probably smart enough to back up his numbers with the data he chooses. Nothing new there.

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*IF* Bernard's posts are not true, would this make him a liar, deceiver and false teacher?

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Stats can be manipulted. Think about it. If Stoneking is right and porn purchases increase when charismatics come to town then one could argue that he could ask another charismatic if they bought one, they say yes and immediately he has a stat that he can use... when charistmatics come to town the porn purchases increase. He is a snake oil salesman so far as I am concerned.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

Only if he knows they aren't true and pushes them as truth anyway.


DKB and LS don't belong in the same category.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

Ok. :)

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

The once talked about "Jewish Revival" in Nebraska, or wherever it was supposed to have been, was a lie since people talked about it without ANY knowledge or confrimation of it happening. And now we know that it didn't happen. Thus, the people that passed that one along knowing it didn't happen lied. So if DKB is passing off lies as truth... then there ya go.

I heard someone else say about the same thing about men who attended Promise Keepers also visiting strip clubs. A club owner in Tampa Bay was quoted as being excited about the Republican convention being in TB. He claimed business boomed at the local strip clubs when PK was there, and he felt "family values" men were just as fond of strippers as others, if not more so.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

Another pet peeve is citing your own works or citing another..associate in the same group who probably quoted him first. Conspiracy and prophecy nuts do this

Jewish revival....ugh.

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Which is a crying shame for many reasons, but in particular because there may be ten or tens of thousands of people showing up for PK and there may indeed be a half dozen who frequent his establishment, but to him those half dozen now represent ALL of the rest. (Sort of like how Timothy McVeigh represents ALL white conservatives in many liberal minds.)
I have no basis for those numbers (tens of thousands or half a dozen) but regardless I am sure the % is microscopic.

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The "jewish revival" was probably an exaggeration

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I am sure there might be some truth to it, anything is possible I guess. I just find it tough to believe that Bernard and Stoneking have all the statistical answers. LOL

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It was an outright lie by someone that was attempting to stay relevant. Fail.

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So not a single jew was saved?

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So a lie isn't a lie unless you know you're lying. Got it!

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How many Jews are in Nebraska?

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Not an exaggeration

Yep.

Not as was widely claimed. I'm sure somewhere a jew was saved, just not the way this district official claimed.

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Actually I think she meant a liar isn't a liar unless they know they are lying

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The Jews weren't in NE. That'd be too easy for people to verify. No, these Jews were in Cali, NY, and Israel. A private jet was involved. It was a fascinating lie.

Re: Dkb tweets & fb statuses
 

So then it was an exaggeration....