Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

This is an off shoot from the standards thread.

Usually when an apostolic is asked if they are saved the answer a lot of times is "I am striving to be saved". I think this comes from not knowing the gospel and what really happened at the cross and what Christ has done for us.

Many times Paul uses word "saved" in regards to the saints.

What think ye? are you saved or striving to get saved?

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

The mature think this way:
Php 3:7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Pliny, are you working to get salvation?

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

All my righteousness is a s filthy rags.
Interesting you apparently did not like the scripture posted.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Pliny I love that scripture. He is talking about dirty menstrual cloths. It reminds me how good our God is and great is His grace towards us. :thumbsup

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Saved.

Striving to be sanctified (some days are better than others).

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I like all scripture, now understanding them and put them together is the crux. Not sure how you get those scriptures means Paul was striving to be saved

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Amen. I was trying to keep it "G" not "PG". :happydance

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I am saved yet striving to stay saved.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

:heeheehee

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

HMMM not sure our striving can accomplish that either:

1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified , but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
KJV

1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
KJV

Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
KJV

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
KJV




Notice past tense? How can this be?


Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
KJV


"we are sanctified" not to get sanctified


1 Cor 1:30-2:1

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption :

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


KJV


Sanctification is ours because we are in Christ. This why we should only glory in the Lord for he is those things to us.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

How much striving does it take to stay saved? How do you know if your presently striving enough to say "I am saved"?

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Context.

Perhaps this will help:
JFB Commentary:
Philippians 3:11
If by any means — not implying uncertainty of the issue, but the earnestness of the struggle of faith (1Co_9:26, 1Co_9:27), and the urgent need of jealous self-watchfulness (1Co_10:12).
attain unto the resurrection of the dead — The oldest manuscripts read, “the resurrection from (out of) the dead,” namely, the first resurrection; that of believers at Christ’s coming (1Co_15:23; 1Th_4:15; Rev_20:5, Rev_20:6). The Greek word occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. “The power of Christ’s resurrection” (Rom_1:4), ensures the believer’s attainment of the “resurrection from the (rest of the) dead” (compare Phi_3:20, Phi_3:21). Compare “accounted worthy to obtain the resurrection from the dead” (Luk_20:35). “The resurrection of the just” (Luk_14:14).


There is no such thing as once saved always saved. That is lie that will send many to a devils hell.

However, no man can pluck us from the Father's hand.
The Devil has voted against us.
God has voted for us.
We are the deciding vote.


Paul strained forward towards the resurrection from the dead (salvation).
RWP
Php 3:13 Stretching forward (epekteinomenos).
Present direct middle participle of the old double compound epekteinō (stretching myself out towards). Metaphor of a runner leaning forward as he runs.

G1901
ἐπεκτείνομαι
epekteinomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to stretch out to or towards
2) to stretch (one’s self) forward to

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

The mature have this mindset:
Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Do you consider your self completely sin free?

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Pliny, I am now away from home on my phone. I will address your last post when on my PC.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Yes

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Wow, first one ever to answer yes. You walk in complete submission to God bearing fruit of the Spirit? You never get angry when shouldn't? Love at all times? Etc....

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I haven't always but now through Jesus I can say yes.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

So it's through Christ you can say yes, I agree. But i am asking in behavior/actions. Most will.say no they are not sin free. This why we need a savior.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I have been saved from what could have been.
I am saved from a life filled with sin.
I am being saved as the days go by.
I shall be saved from eternal damnation.

Pastor Williams uses the word "safe" in describing our salvation. I could use that word, but I don't see anything wrong with using the word "saved" or even "sealed".

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

My answer remains the same I am free from all sin both in behavior and in actions but this is only possible through the power of Jesus enabling me to live free of sin. This does not mean I do not need a savior rather it expresses dependence upon my savior for the power to stay clean and free from sin. It is through Jesus that I can always say no to temptation.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Can I ask you this, What is your definition of being sin free?

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I don't know why, that whey you say you can live a sin free life, people equate that with you doing it almost entirely of yourself, without the help of God..

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Until you don't. Happens every day to people you would never think.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I always wonder what circles you guys hang out in.

I can't recall hearing an Apostolic say that. I am not striving to be saved.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Short answer, missing the mark.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

1.to exert oneself vigorously; try hard: He strove to make himself understood.
2.to make strenuous efforts toward any goal: to strive for success.
3.to contend in opposition, battle, or any conflict; compete.
4.to struggle vigorously, as in opposition or resistance: to strive against fate.
5.to rival; vie.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

It's actually a common answer when asked if saved.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Not sinning.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I agree that is a sad possibility. Please note that I am not saying that I cannot sin or be tempted but that through the power of Jesus I do not.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I go with Saved.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Present tense reality and actual possession.

G2192 ἔχω echo (ekh'-o) (including an alternate form scheo skheh'-o; (used in certain tenses only)) v.
1. to hold (such as possession, ability, continuity, relation, or condition)
{used in very various applications, literally or figuratively, direct or remote}
[a primary verb]

Salvation in Scripture is in three tenses: past, present and future.
We have been saved from our sins.
We are being saved from the present dominion of sin in our lives, and
We shall be saved from the actual presence of sin.

I am a firm believer in the Finished Work of Christ and the reality that we are New Creations, the Righteousness of God In Christ. However, we are obligated to "walk in a manner worthy of your calling."

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I die daily and let Christ live in me on a DAILY BASIS.. so yes, i am saved thru Christ and not striving to get saved

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I think it's already saved, and striving to stay that way.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Have you ever read scripture that you are referencing as to dying daily? When read in context it does not mean in a spiritual sense to die to your flesh every day.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Why would it be shocking for a Christian to be without sin? Everywhere I look in scripture that is considered NORMAL. Anytime a Christian has sin in their life that is ABNORMAL.

I am INITIALLY SAVED. I have been saved.

Yet there is FINAL SALVATION that we must attain through abiding in Christ, overcoming sin, and enduring to the end.

Yeshua said he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Obviously all our striving is by the mighty power of God.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

Are you saying once you are saved you are always saved?

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

I seem to come up with very differing ideas or examples than most, but here goes anyway.

I feel our walk with God is like a marriage. You loved your wife or husband, when you got married. If one of you get upset or angry with the other, does this mean you are no longer married? If one or the other commits adultry, does this mean you are no longer married? Of course in todays society many would just get a divorce. God does not divorce us.

Put this in a family setting, can a son or daughter ever not be a son or daughter? Jesus uses the story of the prodical son to emphasis this. Even when the son was sowing his wild oats he was still a son.

Once we become a child of God, we are always a child of God from that time forward. Hence Paul spends a great deal of time instructing us on the grace of God. Why then would he make the profound statement, "what shall we continue in sin that grace may abound, God forbid". Paul goes on to say in a later chapter "they that walk after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but they that walk after the spirit do mind the things of the spirit".

The fact is not anyone that is walking after the spirit can commit sin. It was a favorite expression my pastor used in my youth, " It is harder to live a life of sin than it is to live for God" I have found in my life that is a true saying. One does not just fall into sin or accidently sin when one is walking after the spirit. There is a detailed process, as James states " Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This brings us the question, can one become lost after one is saved? This must be followed by the question, do we have the right to judge if one is saved or not? This is where we get ourselves in trouble, we have the tendancy to look on the outside, with our list of what we concider right and wrong. The fact is God knows the heart, he looks on the inside.

Lets take one example, church attendance, because we have one verse in the whole bible that says "forsake not the assmebling" we feel we have the right to say, If you miss church your sinning and on your way to hell. Many quote the next verse in Heb. 10 "for if we sin willfuly" and reference the church attendance, but never go to the preceding verse that says, "that we are to provoke unto love and good works" This is what Paul is refering to when he says sin wilfuly, not church attendance.

Is it any wonder so many leave our churchs when all we do is harp on the non essencials as to how long a womens hair is to be or how long her dress should be. We think if we don't tell a women not to run around in a bikini she is going to go run around town in a bikini.

It seems to me we just don't think the Holy Ghost is as powerful as we think it is.

Re: Saved vs striving to be saved??
 

you are seeking to be judged worthy in the end or faithful to be rewarded eternal life. Salvation is multi faceted.