When You Die...
 

What happens when we die? What do we expect with regards to Heaven's reality? Here are a few of my thoughts...

Angels Escort the Soul to Heaven - Luke 16:22

When a child of God dies, angels might be found escorting their soul to Heaven.

The Ladder to Heaven - Genesis 28:12

The soul might see a "ladder" leading to Heaven.

The Tunnel Leading to the Light - John 8:12; I John 1:5

A soul might see a tunnel that leads to "the Light".

The Road to Heaven – Isaiah 53:8

A soul might see a road before them that leads to Heaven.

Door to Heaven – Revelation 4:1

One might see a door before them that leads to Heaven.

Life Review - Matthew 12:36-37; Luke 12:2-3; John 5:22 (Jesus is judge);

The soul will encounter a life review wherein their actions and motives are revealed and judged.

Gan Eden (Garden of God/Eden of God/Paradise) – Isaiah 51:3; Ezekiel 28:13

The redeemed find themselves standing in a beautiful and lush garden paradise wherein they are greeted by the souls of family, friends, and loved ones.

The Gates of Pearl – Revelation 21:21

The soul will be brought to the city and see gates of pearl.

Heavenly City (New Jerusalem) – Revelation 21:9-27

The soul will behold a city with a beauty that surpasses all other cities.

Throne, River, Garden, 24 Elders, Tree of Life in Heaven – Revelation 4:4; Revelation 22:1-5;

The soul will see the Throne of God, the river of life, a beautiful garden, the tree of life, all in God's Hevenly throne room.

Time in Heaven - Revelation 6:10; 2 Peter 3:8; Revelation 1:8

There will be a sense of time in Heaven, although Heaven exists outside of time and space.

Door to Gehenna Before the Throne – Revelation 14:10-11

The door to Gehenna is before the very throne of God.

Thoughts?

Re: When You Die...
 

I think a tunnel with light at the end, met by angelic beings and loved ones, ushered into the presence of Jesus and God, probably a life review.

All in all, a pretty nice place to be.

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Why do so many find it difficult to believe the truthfulness of the words which Solomon recorded in Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 concerning the intermediate state of reality which the soul experiences following the death of their physical body?

"For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

At death, when God withdraws the 'breath of life' from man's physical body, the eternal, invisible soul that is resident therein immediately enters into what might rightly be called a 'suspended state of animation,' which the Bible refers to as 'sleep.' The soul will remain in this inanimate, non-living condition of reality until it is 'quickened' (made alive again, or awakened) at that future moment of the resurrection of the dead.

There's much more that could be stated concerning this important matter, but there should be no doubt that the dead are NOT aware (i.e., awake) following the death of the body in which they dwell. Indeed, the dead are not even aware that they have experienced death! To suggest otherwise is to disregard the veracity of Solomon's inspired words about the matter.

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Uh-oh... another contradiction...

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When one dies they are dead. The Bible metaphor is they are "asleep". That's why THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD is such an important foundation doctrine. Apart from the resurrection of the dead Paul said forget being a Christian. Party. Have a good time in the world.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink ; for to morrow we die . 1 Cor. 15:32

Paul ties our eternal life to the resurrection of the dead. Like most doctrines if one studies them in a shallow way they come up with a wrong understanding.

Look carefully at the foundation teachings of Christ.

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb. 6:1-2

Note that NOWHERE is there a doctrine of eternal life or immortality for a Christian EXCEPT for the resurrection of the dead!

That's why the Apostles taught the new believers and the old that THEIR HOPE was in the resurrection of the dead.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow , that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:14-16

So Paul as a representative, apostle of Christ was not teaching anyone as soon as they died they instantly got eternal life, immortality. Rather it would be granted to them at the resurrection of the dead.

Hope that helps!

Re: When You Die...
 

Michael... we've talked about this before. You hold to JW heresy, Soul Sleep. I don't. You know that. The problem is a failure for you to be able to think categorically. You don't see distinctions in being or states of being. You can't fathom how someone's body can be dead without thought or momory... yet their soul be present with the LORD having a conscious reality. Until you can think on multiple levels at once... you'll continue to believe this error called soul sleep.

Hey... how can you explain the countless stories of people who were clinically dead upon emergency medicals arrival... who can explain who was there, what people were wearing, and what the medics did and even said??? They describe being consciously aware of themselves, aware that they were out of body, and looking down at the scene as an observer???

Are you calling all of these men and women liars???

Angels are spiritual beings that exist without an earthly body. Are you saying that it's impossible to have a conscious reality outside of having a human body? That's a bit materalistic in thinking. Not to mention, your description of death equates you to the basic teachings of Christian humanism, especially with regards to how it views death.

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In the Gospels we read...

Matthew 17:3
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Now here's the kicker... Moses wasn't translated or raised from the dead. Moses was buried. And yet we see Moses standing here speaking to Christ.

Not to mention... Elijah wasn't translated to Heaven as some suppose. He died as all men do. Consider the details of this article:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Did-Elijah...th?&id=3085984

So we have two "dead" men appearing to Christ as living disembodied souls.

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Failure to use categorical logic.

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Not a contradiction if categorical logic is employed.

With regards to a person's body, we can say that they are lifeless and without thought or reason in the grave where they are buried.

Now, the soul may be experiencing a conscious reality in Heaven or Hell while the body lays lifeless and without consciousness.

Categorical logic. The categories here are body and soul. When a distinction is made... we have no contradictions.

Re: When You Die...
 

Apples and Oranges. I never said there cant be temporary resurrections. They happened in scripture. They could happen today.

What scripture teaches is that when one actually dies (unless they are temporarily resurrected for Gods purpose) they are no longer alive.

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I take it as a given that what happens after death is just more than the human mind is made to comprehend. Solomon also said "No one knows where they go when they die."

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Or maybe they consciously exist on a spiritual plane (Heaven or Hell) and God is just allowing them to interact with the earthly plane. For example, Samuel's spirit prophesied against Saul without needing to be updated as to what was going on with the nation. Your doctrine would have Moses and Elijah being temporarily resurrected, were their bodies temporarily resurrected also? Or did they have "spiritual forms" that were making themselves visible on our plane of existence? Also... your doctrine would have them appearing in either temporarily resurrected physical bodies or spiritual bodies having come from a state of unconsciousness that would have been many hundreds and perhaps in Moses' case, thousands, of years. Being unconcious and non-existant... did God raise them magically knowing what was going on? Were they disoriented needing to be filled in on what they missed the past thousand years or so?

If I'm right... they were present with the LORD and well aware of what was happening on earth. Just like the souls in Heaven in the book of Revelation. ;)

This is JW doctrine Michael. It's error. And the sad thing is... you know it.

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Temporary resurrections. Convenient. LOL!!!

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makes absolutely no sense

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Ecclesiastes. I tracked it down once...that may be the RSV or something, not sure. I'll try to go look real quick, but I'm not on a good pc for that.

Re: When You Die...
 

Ecclesiastes 5:16, alt rendering; but really, common sense. You have no idea where you are 'going' after you die, and no one on this earth has any more knowledge than you on the matter.

And, as much as most 'ordained' people might like to think that they can 'reassure' someone here, they cannot; and they contradict Scripture--which I can also find for you--when they say they can.

Thank you, God, for taking such good care of me!

'Tomorrow' is a figment of your imagination, folks; and God does not want you 'dwelling' there. All the answer you will ever get for 'tomorrow' is intentionally poetic, flowery hyperbole, because your mind is not equipped to understand the reality. Today has enough challenge in it for even you.

Re: When You Die...
 

http://i.imgur.com/oKMuT.jpg
never gets old.

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Well, it's not what Jesus said.
A born again Christian KNOWS where he goes when he dies.

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Well then, Dordt, you are just wiser than Solomon, I guess.

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You might go ahead and post "what Jesus said." You will discover that you know no better after reading it than you did before, essentially. And that both are true. Say 'heaven,' and I will say that your 'heaven' will pass away...then what? Scripture does not tell us we are going to heaven, anyway; and neither does Christ. So, where are you going, D? Or rather, where are the 'born-again Christians' going? Hmm?

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I never said otherwise. You are introducing a different concept, at "eternal life." This does not answer the question. That you cannot answer. Scripture says so. You do not know, and no one else does, either.

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But yes, I have a problem--with people who presume to answer what Scripture will not.

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I put it in, down there; but it was not meant to contradict you, I hope you understand, but to illuminate that for all your assurances, and flowery words, you have no idea what happens to you when you die. This is intentional. "You are here, and then you are not" is the best that anyone can tell you, 'born again' or not.

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Oops! You forgot to read this part.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying , Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. Matt. 17:9

They saw a vision prepared by God for their instruction.

We see a like corporate vision given to some of the women after the resurrection.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished , which were early at the sepulchre; 23 And when they found not his body, they came , saying , that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. Luke 24:22-23

Moses and Elijah appeared in a vision. Christ said so.

Also your doctrine of "disembodied souls". Where does that come from. If Moses and Elijah had no bodies in the vision how did they know who they were?

Also the "disembodied" theory fails in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

The rich man SAW Abe. He saw Lazarus. They must have had bodies in the parable. The rich man asked Lazarus to dip his FINGER in water and dip it on his TONGUE.

In the parable they ALL HAD BODIES.

Which brings another point. If they already had bodies (and this is not a parable) why would they need a resurrection to yet ANOTHER BODY?

Wouldn't their "soul body" be sufficient? And the contradiction in this error is evident. Neither Abe, Lazarus, or the rich man are ever said to be "disembodied souls".

Re: When You Die...
 

Um, you might try an alternate reading of the Scripture I quoted; I have seen it written as I quoted it. Surely you are aware that more than one translation of Scriptures exists...

Maybe you should stop pontificating to people about things you are clueless about. It is as clear as mud where Christians "go when they die-" or BAM, enlighten us. You better have a postal address.

I am not interested in your twisted ejaculations of my view of the Gospel, which btw has nothing to do with where a believer goes when they die. To eternal life, of course. "Into the arms of Abraham," tra-la. None of these refute Solomon in Ecclesiastes, nor were they meant to. Sorry if you do not see that there are many more, and expanded, definitions of life after death than your provincial little seminary could inculcate. Deal with it.

Re: When You Die...
 

I grew up believing what I guess most Christians believe. That upon death I would pass from earth to heaven where there would be some kind of accounting of my life (maybe at those pearly gates) and then I would hear 'enter in' and go to get my robe, crown, mansion, and walk on streets of gold. Of course there would be loved ones and friends, and some kind of useful work to do but at the end of the day I could just float on the clouds and play the harp. I think at one point I believed (as many decently educated people still do) that I would get wings and maybe even BE and angel.

My first hint that this was not how it was came when my son came home from the church school and started talking to me about the new Jerusalem, about the millennial reign and about about the Resurrection. Of course on some level I already knew about these things, I'd heard about them, I'd read about them... but I'd never sat through a funeral where they did not say the dearly departed was 'in a better place' or 'with God' or 'an angel now'. I was and still am very confused.

At this point I don't think I believe that 'to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' because if it were there would be no need for the trumpet that will cause 'the dead in Christ to rise and meet him in the air' unless God is going to pluck us out of heaven and stuff us back in the grave.

This is one (of many, many, many) that made me start to see the bible as more a compilation of stories inspired by God than the 'Infallible Word Of God' (deep booming voice for that quote please)...

So I like hearing what others believe but I don't like people saying that a different opinion is the 'doctrine of devils' or any of that... Honestly, it's pretty easy to extrapolate either message out of what is available in scripture so I think charity should rule in this topic. :)

Re: When You Die...
 

a big amen.

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Lol, that's cute.:thumbsup

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Right on.

Charity should always rule. However there is such a thing as doctrines of devils and there is such a thing as actually understanding the truth of a matter. Yeshua was very strong about what he wanted men to believe but he was always operating out of love.

When Jude spoke of "contending for the faith" he was not promoting strife. Yet the Spirit knew the huge confusion that can be caused by the teaching of error.

Have I ever been in error? Yes everything I started out believing in 1974 has turned out to have error except just the simple fact Yeshua is the Son of God and we can be saved. I have had to relearn and change it all.

Better to do that tho than to reject light when it is shone!

I have found it true that some people need to be told a little stronger than others. One might accept a truth easily when shown gently. Others may need sharp rebuke to be sound in the faith. Its ok if it brings forth truth and leads to charity in the end.

Re: When You Die...
 

This is SO important to consider!

In 1 Corinthians chapter 15 there are 58 verses and its ALL about life after death. In all 58 verses we can see the theme is the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

In the ENTIRE CHAPTER.......there is not one single mention of being instantly in Heaven upon death!

How devastating to the immortal soul doctrine! Read it again in that light.

Remember the resurrection is a FOUNDATION DOCTRINE of Christ. The immortal soul doctrine if it were true would be more important and powerful than resurrection. Yet it is nowhere among the foundation doctrines of Heb. 6

It is NOWHERE to be found in the whole of 1 Cor. 15 among all 58 verses teaching about life after death!

It is like the Trinity, or like pre trib rapture. It is arrived at by putting verses together that do not fit on the foundation.

There are actually a lot more scriptures that teach the resurrection than instant Heaven. But when you are "stuck" in an idea sometimes you don't notice that.

Re: When You Die...
 

Jesus said many believers would be surprised to find out where they're going.

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Ahem... Yes, in fact He did. :heeheehee

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The guys on here talking about a soul coma have their theology twisted. When Jesus died on friday, was the world without God for 3 days? Wasn't His spirit ministering in Hell according to Peter? And the Abraham/ Lazarus parable? Don't we gain eternal life, pass from death unto life on accepting Christ? And the thief on the cross? And what about the souls of the dead saints in revelations 6: 9-10. Y'all can believe whatever you want but im pretty sure to meet with my Lord after my days here on earth are over!

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:thumbsup

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Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.