Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

For those who wish to delve deeper into what the Early Church believed and taught as well as why we believe what we do, please take advantage of the following links:

Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine by Rodney Shaw 05/05/10
http://www.newlifeupc.org/resources/...sermon-archive

Series on Christianity and Pentecostalism- Why I am Pentecostal
http://www.newlifeupc.org/resources/sermon-mp3s/series

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Doc can one be considered Pentecostal and yet not be considered Apostolic??

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Yes, and I think there is much here for everyone to benefit from. You will enjoy these studies. (I can tell by the way you think....I think!:nod)

I am understanding your question in a positive sense of course.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

I was just curious. I love teachings like this. I will listen. Really within the Pentecostal world we all use the same scriptures to support what we believe to be a correct doctrine.

I am doing some course work within the Assemblies and have been reading book written by Stanley Horton. The biggest difference is indwelling and the infilling. The author in his bio said that his Grandmother got the Holy Ghost in 1880 and his mom and dad in 1906. He has a rich Pentecostal heritage.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

One can be called anything. It makes no difference what one is called.

It does make a difference what one believes and is obedient to.

To be saved one must follow what the Apostle Peter said, as he stood with the eleven other apostles.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Brother quick question can Jesus baptize one with the Holy Ghost and them still be sent to Hell for not following the plan of salvation as explained in Oneness doctrine?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Your question is one of those got you questions.
I will answer this way. God fills people with the Holy Ghost. If those that he fills do not obey the command of Peter they will go to the Lake of Fire.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

If this is true why give the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Isn't that just so sweet and nice of God to do that for some people. Fill them with the Holy Ghost and when they die, off to hell because a preacher didn't say "In Jesus' Name" when they were baptized.

Really, SINNERS filled with the Holy Ghost because baptism "in Jesus' name" is eis the forgiveness of sins.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

I dont get your question.
One does not have the Holy Ghost if they didn't speak in tongues.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

:laffatu

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

And I hate you :smack

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

What?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

:heeheehee Just kidding!

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

John 16:13 tells us that when he the spirit of truth is come, he will guide into all truth. IMHO this is why God pours his spirit out on "all flesh" to lead them into all truth. I truly believe that when person receives the spirit God will lead them UNLESS they become distracted and eventually hardened because of tradition, sin, etc. TD Jakes several years ago made a statement (wish I could find the original quote) he said basically that denominations do not tell us what you believe, they simply tell us where you stopped following God. I believe this to be very true.

When people are truly seeking after God he will lead them. But many people resist the leading of the Lord or simply disobey it because the church their in tells them it is not necessary, a family member discourages them, etc. This is true even in the "apostolic" church. The majority of members have never grown in their walk with God. Most cannot even tell you why they believe what they say they believe/dress/live/etc.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Sez who? You got a Scripture for this, I hope. What yack. Wadr.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Bishop I have heard Trintarians give a better explanation of the Oneness of God.

I guess my question is why would Jesus being the Baptizer fill somebody with His Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues if they are damned to the devils hell for not following the plan of Salvation according to the Oneness doctrine.

When I left God sent me to the Book of John and the Book of Romans when I was asking Him for guidance.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Come dear brother Yates

The UPCI suffers from the same myopia that every new denomination that came along, the Lutherans thought they were the restoration of the true church, and so did the Wesleyans and the Methodists and so on.

The UPCI is just a step back to the early Apostolic Church, the UPCI is still a long way from being the true Apostolic Church.

Their self-anointing as the Church of Acts falls short of reality.

Their illusion that they are the last step in the way back to the Church of Acts is sadly too real to them.

God is not finished yet taking us back to the original church of Acts.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

You sure it was God?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Elder I do. So you know we did not leave because we wanted to follow our flesh and thumb our noses at God.

We love the Lord and have done our best to live alive accordingly. He is our still our Lord and Savior.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

I agree :D I have heard some of the best oneness preaching by Trinitarians. Sadly, every one of them I have heard, ends up stating that while God is one he is three and this is a mystery that we cannot understand we must just accept it by faith.

As to your question, the only answer I can think of is that by giving them the Holy Ghost he has left them with NO excuse if they are lost. In other words, they cannot say "we didn't know/didn't understand" because God will be able to say "not so, you had my spirit in you and yet you refused to follow my leading." Some would read my explanation and exclaim "what a horrible God that he would give them a taste of heaven knowing they would be lost." I see it completely the opposite; what a merciful and gracious God that he would stop at nothing to reach for the soul of a man knowing that in the end the man will refuse to follow him.

To me this is no different than the man/woman who is sick in the hospital and the doctors have said there is no hope, death is imminent. A believer goes to the hospital and the dying man/woman says "if God will heal me, I will serve him the rest of my life." God does.....and the person NEVER even darkens the door of the church or acknowledges God in any way. Why did God heal them.....he knew before he did it that they would never serve him.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

I understand where you are coming from and I mean no disrespect but on some we will just have to agree to disagree. The church is much bigger than many of us will ever understand and God works in ways that are higher than our ways.

We at best see the things of God through a dimly lit mirror.

Faith in Him moves the heart of God.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

That is highly exclusionary? You have never heard xenoglossy in your life, am I correct? And yet you would define 'speaking in tongues,' or glossololia, as a prerequisite for having the Holy Spirit...on what basis, sir?

The Scriptures that indicate groanings in prayer in association with having the Holy Spirit seems precious little to deny another on. I'm sure you might admit that 'getting' the Holy Spirit without glossololia surely, but even xenoglossy, so obviously given--3 times, once in the Upper Room, once to a crowd of Jews, and once to Gentiles--for a type, is possible?

If not, then thank you, at least, for this opportunity to set the record straight. Anyone who feels compelled to add to Scripture, specifically at Acts 2:38 in this instance, in order to exclude others, is lying to you.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

The verse is perfect just like it is, ty.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

What is the ONE sign or manifestation that is universal to all who have received the spirit?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

My understanding its the initial evidence.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

What is the initial evidence? Is it tongues/glossolalia ........or something else? At what point does one receive the spirit baptism (or is it automatic upon believing) and what is the universal sign/manifestation that EVERY believer will experience as assurance of said baptism?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Even in the AG we believe the initial evidence is tongues.

It is not upon believing but upon faith asking for the Promise of the Father.

However it is not to be confused with the indwelling Spirit that one gets at believing.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

What if the minister said some traditional formula, yet the individual was crying out to God in the name of Jesus in their heart?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Amen. A sad state of affairs for the "institutional church". :(

I come from the house church side of the tracks. We don't believe that buildings, "sermons", pews, programs, salaries, offices, or positions are NT requirements. We meet in homes, coffee houses, parks, and other venues. We have "elders" who are spiritual mentors, or spiritual fathers, not suited and licensed religious agents of the state with ecclesiastical authority. The the church gatherings are more like family renunions. Gives a whole new meaning to being "brothers and sisters" in the LORD.

It breaks my heart how the Apostolic movement stopped following God upon getting licensed and incorporated. :(

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Well, it seems to me that since the tenets that the movement were instituted by, basically, attrition, they can be un-instituted the same way (An ordained minister needn't publicly deny it--just stop teaching it!). I was raised to believe in the glossololia experience, also, as the sign of the Holy Spirit--I had one, myself--but an important point, too, is that this does not mean that the HS just automatically stays with you forever...just ask Moses!

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Or, what if they did not know the Name, "Jesus," and instead referred to Christ by one of His--many--other Names?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

:bump :popcorn2

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Just to be clear......the AG and many other Pentecostal based groups teach that Holy Ghost baptism is distinct from and subsequent to salvation. Which is why nearly all of those groups believe that one is saved regardless of whether or not they EVER receive the spirit baptism or not. It is according to their teaching, something EVERY believer should seek for (to receive power) but not something they MUST have to be saved.

Also it is true that most Pentecostal based groups teach that speaking with tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

My question is......is there any other (initial) sign that one has received the Spirit? Or more directly, is speaking with tongues the ONLY biblical and universal (initial) sign or manifestation of one receiving the Holy Ghost?

And secondly, is there any biblical evidence that one can receive an indwelling presence/spirit separate/distinct from being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

What's a matter.....You skeered?......:heeheehee

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

I accept prophecy... that was the initial evidence in the O.T.

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Ha! No, I'm going with 'ignorant, and curious.'

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

LOL

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

Bump

Re: Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine
 

#1 - Yes. Tongues is the only biblical evidence given for Holy Spirit baptism.

#2 - Ephesians 1:13