Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

End of day Sunday will be 1 month visiting the Church we found, (our first Apo' Church aside from a school I went to as a teen).


So the question comes... how does one know if they are actually welcome?
(we don't wish to be those that are not)

Any good ways to test this to actually know?

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Try to start a "wave" during the sermon, and see if everyone joins in.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Most churches are actively in the business of recruiting others so they should 'want' you there. In most UPC type churches them continuing to want to keep you around will depend a lot on how well you conform to whatever they are teaching.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

LoL

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

You will likely need to conform within a certain undetermined time frame. But you will be welcome for at least a few months without doing anything. ;)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Your churches must be a lot more liberal than ours, where a pastor approached a visitor we had invited on his third visit... draped his arm over the fellow's shoulders, and within my husband's hearing, said "You see all those good men out there?... You notice what they don't have?... Yes, a mustache... and next time I see you, I don't want you to have one either." ... And Rodney, after over 20 years of his adult life wearing facial hair came back to church the next service clean shaven... Of course a couple services later he disappeared and was never heard from again... I wonder what was asked of him that time...

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

True on the conformity, we're honestly a very close match socially, at this point in time at least....

Just for interest...
Top 3 nonconformity issues that led to friction with the Menno's....
1. 24/7 Prayer covering
2. Miss Misfits CCW (Other non-defensive related areas)
3. Working on Sundays = had the job before we started attending (demanding every Sunday off = termination, from a boss who was Jewish?) and we just can't not pay the bills.


Top 3 nonconformity issues that led to friction with the Baptist...
1. Failing to be not-overactive (dead) in the Church < I know this sounds odd
2. Failure in keeping our mouths shut over Church's direction and insane financial decisions.
3. Failure to make our hearts cold enough to be accepted socially in their "non-conformist" conformity. <<<< read it 3x and it makes sense LoL



Top 3 nonconformity issue with the Apo's after 3.5 weeks....
1. Nothing ( and this is after we both openly discussed this for 5minutes+
2. Same as above
3. Same as above

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Cool! If the shoe fits :) I liked our second UPC church much better than the first... Issues there... I was already too damaged by the first to be able to listen to the evangelists that had the 'screaming preaching' style and spent a lot of services sitting in the foyer or in the bathroom to avoid it... It was still very attendance and performance based and I work long hours and have a farm.

And yes I do know what you mean about the dead Baptists... we belonged to a Baptist church that called a new preacher and within 2 weeks wanted to fire him because his wife lifted her hands during worship and they thought it as 'charismatic'... Sheesh!

Hope it works out for you! :)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I can't think of anything, nor witnessed anything in conformity we would need to change. If there is any change needed (very plausible), I would assume they are very small things.



Now there are many things that we are not a custom to, but that is in worship, not conformity...... Unless their worship is conformitive.... They've told us "We respect freedom in worship, personal preference, there is no wrong way to worship God..."

SO.... Based on what they said I would agree..... but then the Menno's used the term "personal preference" very often which was very weird - as that very term practiced led to very thick sheets of ice...

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

These are the stories that makes my heart ache for the ignorance. These men who feel they have been called of God to proclaim the gospel are going to stand before God in judgement of ignorant things they have done to come between people and God.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Well if you are Female then wear pants for a while and see if they try to change you with a "bible study" on Det 22:5 if they don't then I would stay if they do I would leave.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I fully understand the attendance, our's is a number 1 rule (but I honestly like that, even given I cannot go to Wednesday service due to evening class). Would you tell a tale of Performance Based?


Lifting hands up.... Another thing we are not a custom to...

We were both raised to do the opposite by the baptist. Honestly, simply thinking about doing anything but standing there like a wooden board brings great anxiety to both of us. The Baptist (who we were with all our youth till we moved to TX) were SOooooo judgmental that it has apparently made us extremely paranoid, to the point of causing hardships in worship...

Our middle name of the month is...
Newbie (never had freedom to enjoy worship before & don't know how to handle it) Misfits :)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

We both dress modest.... not based on Deuteronomy.... but for the needed discipline in our lives... it very much keeps us on the right place, and is a constant reminder of what our mission is, and it does work.... (learned from the Menno's teachings, even though they also include Det.)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

The test I have on hand at this point....

After our 1 month marker this Sunday, I will call my (mentor/new inquisitive friend) there Monday and tell him the following...


The deal is we want to make sure we are a good fit and not a misfit, we want to make sure we are truly welcome.
I know this is hard for Churches to say, so I'll make it very easy for both of us.
On Wednesday night, ask & see, then if so, and only after Wednesday, call me and invite us to Church. If you do we'll gladly accept, but if not we fully understand and enjoy what time we've had. Note, we do not want any invitation out of pity.



Thoughts?

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Sure... in our churches one's spirituality was directly equated with participation in 'church'. As soon as one is deemed 'worthy' to participate by having the proper dress code and conforming to the rules (for us they were-no TV, no movies, no sports, no swimming, no dancing) then one is expected to begin working for the church. This usually meant ramping up attendance to about six days a week with two services on Sunday. Ladies prayer meeting (am), Some other prayer meeting pm, choir practices, making dinners or peanut brittle, fund raisers... all AT the church. There were many weeks I was there every single day of the week for something.

I understand that some people love this... and initially I did too... The issues came when my job got busier and the farm work picked up and I just could not do it... It was then that I had people suggest right to my face that perhaps I was waxing cold.... And I realized how much of how one is seen at church has to do not with being faithful to Jesus and His teachings but with being faithful to the church... and how much of the chruch's 'work' is about taking care of those within the church and not about reaching others with the Good News. Anyway I got burned out on it... and of course the result is that I am not in church... so I am certainly not advocating that you take any advice from me if what you are seeking is to get into a church. :)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Matt 23
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I think I am more getting your queston... So here is a better answer, maybe.

You accept the church by attending and participating.

The church accepts you as a seeker now even though you probably consider yourself a Christian... They do not believe you have 'full truth'.

They will accept you as a brother and sister in Christ when you have spoken in tongues and been baptized in Jesus name... We kind of noticed that the whole repentance part was not required as we were already some other kind of half cooked Christians from another denomination.

hth :)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

From what I'm reading, alot of you really dislike UPC churches.

There are no churches perfect, but, I really hate to see this
denomination talked about in such negative ways, especially
on an Apostolic forum.

Do not all churches have certain standards that they believe?

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

We consider ourselves God Fearing.... We know God, & do all that we can inward & outward, based on our factual relationship with Him. When I say factual, I mean just that (what we have witnessed & been shown thru Him during our life so far).

We are not "saved" but are not "damned". I know the definition of a Christian and we are not, but we are not claiming such as so many we witness do.....

Why are we not? We do not openly feel (based on our personal relationship with God) that literally anyone can repent and be saved. There are evils here, there are those that will indeed suffer eternal damnation regardless.

So we are not, as we don't feel one can simply have an honest thought & be Christian. We feel this requires good works, discipline, respect, and a at least a life-cumulative positive balance of good-vs-evil .....
Only then do we feel we can honestly begin to be saved....

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

You must not have read my post lol We LUV this UPC Church! :highfive



BTW, very funny "Half-Cooked Christian" comment Titus

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

So glad you've found a church that you can attend
and live for Jesus! :nod

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I think the worst thing I was told was required of me as a newbie was this following statement. "If you really loved Jesus you wouldn't want to smoke"

I didn't really know what to do with that! I could try to physically prevent myself from smoking, I could WANT to not want to smoke, but I didn't seem to have any control over the actual desire (both physically and psychologically). And sense there was about 6 months between my starting to attend church and receiving the Holy Ghost, it's not like I had any special power either.

I think it mostly left me feeling like a failure. I obviously didn't REALLY love Jesus, and that's probably why I didn't get the Holy Ghost either, what a loser..... (or so I felt).

For the record, I did quit after about 3 months, but during the first major trial in my life (about 3 years later) I started again for a time. It's now been almost 8 years since I quit, and though it's not constant, I still occasionally have dreams where I smoke (and enjoy it immensely).

So that was probably the absolute WORST thing to tell new convert me, because I am so like a recovering addict, the desire never went away, and the only thing that stops me in times of great stress is that I KNOW one cigarette would turn into a pack a day habit in no time.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

We've been on a church hunt for years now. There is one we attend semi-regularly but we don't consider it 'our' church by any means. A few times we've been asked to visit a UPC and we nearly did but ducked out at the last minute in each case. I told my wife that the moment we step foot into one we will meet genuinely friendly people (which will be so different from just about every other church we've visited so far) in terms of them coming up to greet us with by smiles, and probably inviting us to lunch on the spot. The issues will start within 1-2 months as we fail to attend every service and and my wife continues to wear pants and shorts. While I am sure that there are some smaller UC churches in the Phoenix valley, I do not know of any personally and the ones I DO know of actually allow their members to own TV's, attend MLB and NFL games (our teams NEED the help here!) and for the guys to wear shorts. I guess in some ways the UPC overall has come a long ways since I attended regularly during the 80's, although I will argue that 2 holiness "standards" is just as bad as 20, so even though they are more lax I have the same issues with them now as I did 25 years ago.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Hope Im not interrupting berry picking ;)


I understand holiness standards, as if the Menno's had a 100, this UPS Church has 10.

If you do not go & see, how will you know if you have the same issues?

Surely not wanting to put on modest atire is stopping you from finding a home? I'm not gonna preach to you (who am I to do so?) but no Church is perfect like everything else in life, and just like everything else you have to compromise this-for-that. ;)

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

No, not wanting to put on costumes is. And it is not a question of how MUCH a costume is put on, but anything is "too much". If the ONLY standard was something small like "all members must wear this pin on their collars" it would be too much.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Don't worry... the conformity issues will arise sooner or later.

By the way, the sabbath is the seventh day, not sunday, so your job poses no problem with God. :icecream

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

To become a Christian requires a person to come to God honestly and sincerely, with humilty and genuine sorrow for sins.

God promises to empower such a one to be a manifestation of God's Eternal Life in this world.

Please don't confuse a lack of faith with 'humilty in not wanting to boast about salvation'.

It isn't 'Gee, look at me, I'm SAAAAAVED!' it's more like 'Gee, look at God, He chose to save such a worm as I'.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

We are fixing to test the waters leaving our UPC church of over 10 years and see whats out there? We are going to start out at an Assemblies of God church and go from there

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Did God tell you to shop around and find a church that you like? Just wondering, being serious here, not trying to debate or anything.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Acually my wife who is a Sunday school teacher for over 10 years in the UPC church we attend, approached me with the idea and Pentecost is all she knows..I think the whole dress code thing is weighing on her, plus its not a big church and not very many kids in our sunday school classes for our kids to be with..

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I agree, over the time before the Menno's and the Apo's, we still dressed modest when visited churches the did not & that brought more humility than when we first became friends with the Menno's not dressed modest. Again, our decision is not based off Det. as you & I both agree it was different times & people take Det out of context/meaning.

But then why haven't you gone to a church that doesn't "require" this?



We expect it, as with any Church there are always differences. I'm just saying we are not expecting anything major.



You see this Often in Baptist Churches, only after your comment I would add 'but only on Sunday's 10 to lunch'

Perhaps witnessing so much of this is where we came to the conclusion that one cannot simply ask...

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Great Avatar BTW lol


We have yet to see for ourselves, but how strict is your current Church on atire?

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I always wondered if he stutters in real life. :slaphappy

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Let me be blunt.

Are you saying that you have seen too many people claiming to be 'saved' who give little to no evidence of a genuine CHANGE to a more Biblical, Christ-like life? That you have seen many people claim to be 'christians' who, to put it bluntly, aren't really LIVING FOR GOD? And by 'living for God' I don't mean they keep various church standards in dress or no tv or whatnot, but over all they just don't seem to be ON FIRE for God, not seeking God in everything they do, not taking God SERIOUSLY enough? Kind of like God and Christianity is just one more thing added into their already busy lives, as opposed to being the center, source, purpose, and point of life itself? And therefore you conclude that 'being saved' or being a 'true Christian' can't possibly be as simple, low-brow, low-cost, cheap and generally unremarkable a thing as what you see so commonly demonstrated by millions of professing "Christians"?

Am I getting closer to a correct understanding of where you guys are at right now?

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

I keep hearing cheesy 80s music in the background everytime I see his avatar.

:icecream

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Well I have tried to address it with some of the members,but they don't want to go there on it, I really think they really can not back it up thats why they do not want to go there,plus I have had conversations on Facebook with some ultra cons about "dress code" and they kind of got a little unchristian like and started calling me names and my wife saw it, which I did not know till the other day and she really did not like it.

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

All that over an 80s tv icon for an avatar?

:bigbaby

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Everyday can be Halloween!! Who doesn't like Halloween??? :happydance

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Oh, I hope you don't end up in a Lakewood-ish church... unless that's what you're looking for. :throwrock

Re: Any "Are You Welcome" tests out there?
 

Not exact but close enough in a messed up world you might be our neighbor lol