Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...)
 

Off a few other threads, so no one get the wrong idea here....

We are God Fearing:

We know God, based on our factual relationship with Him.

When I say factual, I mean what we have witnessed & been shown thru Him in our life so far.

We are given biblical signs and blessings from God often enough to truly know His presence, (these signs are not taken lightly, I'm very analytical and when a sign carries such odds as 1:700,000+, to us it's a sign) when gathered around the right group of people we can feel His presence.

We are for better words ignorant in understanding scripture. (but currently trying)

We are not "saved" but are not "damned". I know the definition of a Christian and we are not, but we are not claiming such as so many we witness..... (which is worse?)

We do not openly feel that literally anyone can repent and be saved. There are evils here, there are those that will indeed suffer eternal damnation regardless of future actions.

We don't feel one can simply have an honest thought & become Christian. We feel this requires good works, discipline, respect, and a at least a life-cumulative positive balance of good-vs-evil.....

Only when we have come to a life worthy of Him can we truly accept such a commitment and receive assured salvation.

* We do not preach this to be universal truth, this is simply our honest understanding that He has shown us*
^^^ However, has He shown us everything or just a small piece of the pie? Are we seeing things clearly or half blind?

DO we wish to be saved? INDEED, and we are EVERYDAY working towards this. Since 2006 we've been working on this, and feel we are 90% there (aside from scriptural intelligence.)
^^^ Note, I do not mean 90% complete holiness, for there is a lot of further enlightenment ahead I see....

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

The last 2 signs (both relating to this Church & AFF)

Here's the 1st, 2nd to last...


One thing we learned from our time with the Menno’s is any time you need a sign you need only look in the bible. I cannot recall the scripture off hand, but it was well taught one Sunday. We both witnessed this several times back then. Sometime after it quit working, or I lost being able to clearly see the signs, or perhaps I wasn’t praying loud enough….

Things have been hard not having a home for our family since then, and I won’t go into great detail, but our family was at a spiritual breaking point.

I desperately prayed for a week for a sign on what to do, deeper than I had in a long time. So aside from that, I was sitting with Miss Misfit, and went to show her an example in the "ah but my version of the bible also shows you this" battle. I randomly flipped through it, stopping on Habakkuk 3 “The Profits Prayer”.

We'd never read this, nor ever heard any church speak from this book. Finding this odd I thought maybe it to be a sign, but the only sign I took from it was that God indeed was furious, and that didn’t do much good as God had been letting me know this for some time now.
I placed my marker there and put my bible back for further research.

Now I shared this with Andrea on Thursday, & Sunday we went to what was going to be our last hope in finding a home for such misfits as ourselves.
Then, low and behold the speaker brought up Habakkuk 3 out of about 6 different scriptures!

Chapters in the Bible: 1189
6 Different scriptures read from: 1189/6

Face odds:1 in 192

C = the number of chapters read from since last-or-next reading from Hab 3 = 20+

R = number of sermons heard since last Hab 3 reading (never, 1000+)

Sign Odds: 1 in (192RC) = 1 to 3,840,000+

The odds here are; 1 in 3,840,000+

Not only are these odds as mathematically impressive as the signs we witnessed while with the Menno’s (<this being important to an engineer), but it was as if the speaker was talking right to us, and the scripture as well!
DO I take this as a sign? Very much so!


What does this mean to me? God has delivered us there, why I don't know, but I feel it is to learn something....

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

I will say that not one person is saved until judgement day.
We only have the hope of eternal life until that day.
No matter what we believe about it.

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

I don't mean any criticism or warning, but I always caution about seeking signs. I've had friends who also prayed for a sign about various things. I even went through a time where I prayed for God to "show me a sign." I was sincere. I really wanted God to show me some sign that confirmed things in my life.

Instead I got nothing.

Did that mean God wasn't interested in me? That maybe God had me on a do not show a sign list?

Absolutely not.

The Bible talks about seeking signs. The Pharisees asked Jesus for one, and He replied "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it."

The Bible also says, there will be signs which follow them that believe.

Believers shouldn't follow signs. Signs should follow believers.

Again, this wasn't meant as a slight or criticism. It's too easy if a sign doesn't come to then think we're out of favor with God and beat ourselves up over it. I don't want that to happen with you.

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Last sign

So Miss Misfit luved the Church, but had much doubt on my sign, even given the odds....

So the night before Week III service, she was researching grace. She had stopped on Psalms 84, sure enough the next morning... BaM there it was being spoke from!

I won't go thru the math of it all.... but He does give us signs!


Last time a scripture-to-scripture before this Church? Only before & during the Menno Church.


What do these say to us? Something big! lol

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

The bible speaks of Christians as being 'saved' (past tense), 'being saved' (present tense), and 'will be saved' (future tense). Each is related but has different connotations or nuances.

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

I once asked for a sign and behold, the juniper bushes brought forth juniper berries!

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

"These signs shall follow them that believe" (Mark 16:17).

Agreed, but we didn't follow the sign, the sign followed us, and showed itself to us after the fact as confirmation, not prediction. I do not try to hard to interpit any sign, just take it for what it is. ;)

So I guess we agree agree & disagree ;)

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Yes I just put up "These signs shall follow them that believe" in a thread stating we not saved, but hat does not mean we do not believe, we just don't believe everyones different views on the ease of achieving salvation.... what's that mean, were just different (misfits), and still have much to learn for ourselves. ;)

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Sorry, I read the part in bold above, which says you desperately were praying for a sign. That's what I would call seeking for a sign. :)

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Ease of achieving salvation?

On the one hand, he that has ceased from HIS OWN WORKS enters into rest.

On the other hand, STRIVE TO ENTER IN AT THE STRAIGHT GATE.

It's so easy it's hard for most (myself included).

No man shall be justified by works, for all of us have already been condemned by the law of God as sinners (lawbreakers).

Thus we must find another way to be justified. And thus God gives GRACE (pardon and undeserved favour).

Christ was made to be sin for us. Therefore, if we BELIEVE that, and throw ourselves upon God's mercy, and TRUST GOD TO FULFILL HIS WORD on the basis - not of our righteousness, but of Christ's death and resurrection - we will be saved.

The apostle said 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household.'

Our faith must rest in Him and His Work, not in us and our works.

If our faith truly rests in Him and His Work, then He will, in us, DO HIS WORK. And may we all arrive at the point where we can honestly say 'it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me'.

The chosen of God are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. We are predestined by God to think like Jesus, understand things the way He does, and live as He did in this world - a life manifesting the very nature of God through our weak flesh.

God became man that man might become God, as some have said in the misty past. In other words, God took on our nature, so that we might partake of His nature.

God is building a family, literally.

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Yes & we received them, but after the fact... I never said I wasn't praying for a sign, and to say that God (who can do anything, even what we cannot possibly conceive) doesn't answer prayers from time to time is something I'm not interested in arguing over.

We could argue this, but nothing said here nor quoted from any scripture could change the past, which is yes we received signs, we've had 8 now to date (5years) that to us were confirmed. I don't care if means I got booted from this awesome forum, or anything else, nothing could change or install doubt in what it was.

Even if saying this in front of the whole Church we are visiting meant we have to go, even though we got signs we have something to learn there, then all that would mean is that we've then learned what it was we were to learn.

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

That was a very good write up ;)


When I say the ease of salvation, this is not aimed at all or maybe even 1/2 of those that claim Christian. I know there are those out there that are Christian, by our definition, and to those that have such discipline, perhaps you understand what I'm saying even if you do not believe (which is fine, again, it's what we believe, and beliefs are simply that, they are not precise facts and they change greatly or slightly based on what we learn).

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. You mention 'christian by our definition', and include 'those that have such discipline'.

Are you saying that a 'Christian' then involves a certain amount of 'discipline'? Things like 'take up your cross, deny yourself', that sort of stuff?

Are you talking about entire sanctification?

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

By "our definition" I mean how myself & Miss Misfit see it, not all God Fearers or Christians.

What is a Christian by our definition you ask? < If that is what you are asking...<
One that lives by what he believes and what he testifies to, and is truly saved and not simply claiming it. Everyone is different, so there is NO exact ground rules in my book, and no one is perfect. It is a rare thing that we've found those that honestly do this, even behind closed doors. What is often found is those that might be God Fearing or not, but based on different factors are clearly putting on a front for many different reasons claiming Christian.

I don't want this to go into judging, as I'm not, I'm being factual. Becoming a Christian (to us) takes time, scriptural knowledge, discipline, respect, patience.... all things we still need more of & I'm sure more things we are not even aware of due to the lack in the list above.

If we leave here before we reach that point of being able to fully understand and commit to the works of God's teaching thru Christ, then we both will be placed before The Judge and only then we will truly know our fate.


.. but then we are not anything to a scholar or even a first year preacher or even granny, so how do we know we're right... we don't.... all one can know is what he has learned to be truth.... and again we have a lot of learning to do :)

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

You are a dork! :laffatu

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

If your saved, your saved now.

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Hmm... I don't see how a person can be a 'God fearer' and not be living for God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is also to hate all evil. One cannot hate all evil if they still play with it, can they?

I would say your definition of a Christian is pretty much Biblical. A Christian is one who truly has been regenerated, and who truly is led by the Spirit, and who truly is living for God (ie God is truly living in their life).

I do believe sometimes Christians backslide, in which case they are disobedient Christians. And I do believe if they die in that condition they will be lost.

But I also believe if they have truly been regenerated, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY they will persist in backsliding. If God can drag a sinner kicking and screaming to a place of repentance (as in my case), then surely he can draw a wayward son or daughter back to a place of right standing.

Anyways, I agree - there are too many play-actors and not enough real-deal believers. And I confess there have been times I have been both, to my own shame.

But God leads His dear children along, sometimes putting hooks in their jaws...

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Very well said! :thumbsup

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Very good write up, well said!

As to whats above...

I am a God fearing man, this fear also brings with it being quite scared of not being right with Him. With this, I strive to do right, I strive good works, I strive to respect Him through putting as much discipline into my daily decision as my maturity with Him allows.

Compared to the average of claiming Christians we know, we would assume we are well above par, but who are we judge others, but we can judge ourselves... but "we" still feel we have a ways to go to be able to receive salvation thru the Holy Ghost and honestly be a true Christian.

You are right about evil and still playing with evil & I agree, however, in sinning, many times you don't see the sin in the act until further evaluation or education.
Much like your drivers license:
You know it is bad from the get go to drive down the other lane, Your gut tells you it's bad to drive over the speed limit sign, but unless you read the book and learn all the smaller laws you have no idea what a round-a-bout is, or how to handle it until after you've gone thru it & then you can better understand it...... Hope that came across right ;)

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

Isn't this what all Christians are to be doing? 'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'?

Well, 'comparing them among themselves they are not wise' or something like that. We should compare ourselves to God's standard, not man's performance. Which can be scary some times... lol

Have you received the Holy Ghost?

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

..

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled."

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

I haven't read all other threads NewbieMisfits.

Please update me.

You stated, "We are not "saved" but are not "damned". I know the definition of a Christian and we are not, but we are not claiming such as so many we witness..... "

Is this about you? About ("Mennos") Mennonites? Are you Mennonite?

PM me if you would rather.

**EDITED

OK... nevermind. I am reading some of these answers in the other threads...

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

yeah Hoovie, heading to bed but it's an interesting read...

not we are not Menno, we only attending a Menno Church for some time... we're Misfits :)

Re: Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...
 

What type of Mennonites were they, do you know?