Healing?
 

I am hearing pastors say now that Christians shouldn't suffer illness/pain. The reasoning is that in Heaven, there will be no illness or suffering, we have God's power in us and we are supposed to be building God's kingdom, so that means that we shouldn't accept sickness here in earth.

They say we should tell the devil he is trespassing, remind him that by Jesus's stripes we are healed and claim our healing.

But is this Biblical? I believe The Lord can heal, but he obviously doesn't always. And we are promised short lives full of trouble, and that we will die. How can we reconcile this while thinking we should never be sick?

My false prophet red flags are going up.

Is there something I'm missing scripturally that makes this kind if teaching right?

Re: Healing?
 

I believe that we have healing available to us through Christ, but as you pointed out, it doesn't always happen. My first reaction to sickness is prayer and confession. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Last week it worked for a very very serious, life threatening problem and I'm thankful for that.

It's up to each individual how they wish to confront illness and disease though.

Re: Healing?
 

seekerman you bring out several important things in your post. First, the Bible clearly teaches that healing is "In the Atonement." So, as you pointed out, healing is definitely available to us through Christ.

I would go further and say that it is available to us on the same basis as forgiveness of sins. (Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:17; I Peter 2:24)

For you to reach first for prayer and confession is excellent. I am a Retired RN. I was also privileged to have spent about a year working closely with Oral Roberts. He believed strongly in merging the two streams of healing and medicine. All of my "heroes of the faith," on the other hand, taught against doctors and Medicine. They saw incredible results. We want to see those kind of results again.

"we have God's power in us and we are supposed to be building God's kingdom, so that means that we shouldn't accept sickness here in earth.
They say we should tell the devil he is trespassing, remind him that by Jesus's stripes we are healed and claim our healing.

But is this Biblical?"

I would answer a resounding YES! The "failures" are on our part as ministers of the Gospel. We have been teaching unbelief for years and so we get what we preach. Turning that ship takes a long time and lots of distance.

I believe as we continue to teach a bold, positive and proactive faith. We will begin to see more and more the kind of results seekerman saw last week. We are seeing incredible results in our own group. We send out teams who go door to door in their own neighborhoods with the message of healing and deliverance. The results are humbling. God still heals!

seekerman, I sincerely pray that last weeks encounter was not your own health?! If so we are praying anyway for that situation in general.

Re: Healing?
 

So, since you both say this is biblically accurate, that Christians will be healed if all their illnesses and should not be sick in this side of heaven, can you please reference scripture that says that? I'm having trouble finding such.

Sounds a bit like the prosperity doctrine mess.

Re: Healing?
 

UH-OH... Larry, I like you... a lot. I was kind of hoping we would not wind up wrangling with this one... but here goes... Can you sincerely say that in your 20 something years of nursing that you never saw someone with firm faith for their healing progress in their disease and die?

I have seen a woman on a vent with tumor and fluid filling her lungs, with cancer eating up all her organs, writing notes to her family telling them not to give up hope because the Lord had promised her her healing... right up until hours before she died.... and others like her. This breaks my heart as we are doing nothing to help people like this understand or prepare for death.

Everyone will die, illness is a part of that... I think that teaching that illness, or the failure to receive a supernatural healing from illness, is the result of a lack of faith is a very cruel teaching.

In all controlled studies to date, faith often does give one an edge in recovery from serious illness... but ALL faiths are equal in their ability to give that advantage... Every story I've heard otherwise was strictly anecdotal.

Re: Healing?
 

If I can keep it straight I will try and answer you both. n David I do not accept the "name it and claim it" doctrine. Which brings me to the next point which is also directed to your question.

I have seen failure after failure for which I have nothing but sadness. What we do and teach is different from the typical way of praying for the sick. I won't go into detail, but that is simply not biblical. Now I realize I am opening the proverbial can of worms here, but you can go through every incident of healing in the Bible and never find a single example of the traditional practice of interceding for healing.

Jesus commanded illness and demons as if talking to any normal person. He spoke to illness and it left. We do the same based on the promise that believers will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. Why do we fail more often than we succeed? I have no clue. Well, I do actually have a theory but that's all it is. I believe we have deep s eated and ingrained unbelief that we are not even aware of. It shows up in the way we pray and our songs, it's from centuries of belief that healing had passed away. Many still wonder at some level if that may be true.

Ok, I went into more detail than I intended. Bottom line is we simply take the promises and principles in scripture and act on them. It works so much better. The only time Jesus ever rebuked anyone for lack of faith was when He addressed the disciples over their failure to cast out the demon. We accept that as placing the burden fully on the one ministering healing.

Have to quit here. Errands to run. But seriously guys, there is no need to "wrangle" here. We're just sharing ideas and experience. We ca disagree without being disagreeable. I contend that only when we return to New Testament patterns, principles and priorities, will we begin to see New Testament results. Talk more later.

Re: Healing?
 

Maybe 'wrangling' was not the word I wanted. While I sincerely hope that there is something to your ideas I still believe and teach others that death is a part of life, perhaps the greatest part, as it is the end of this race. As such it can be seen as a victory of it's own, without dread, as it moves us one step closer to being with God. There is a way to die a good death, as much as possible, but it takes some preperation for most people... Something they are not getting help with, if we never admit, until they are unconcious and gasping, that they are indeed going to die.

Re: Healing?
 

Love hearing opinions, but scriptural backing is what I'm most interested in, if anyone can provide it, as I have been unsuccessful reconciling this on my own.

Re: Healing?
 

Is healing promised? Perhaps with some requirements and instructions on how to achieve it? Does it always happen? No.

Is salvation promised? Perhaps with some requirements and instructions on how to achieve it? Does it always happen? You don't know, and won't know until you die.

Just sayin'.

Re: Healing?
 

James 5:15
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

1 John 5:15
And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Re: Healing?
 

I don't recall Jesus speaking to illness. Got some examples?

Re: Healing?
 

Heard a preacher relate a story once about a man who asked the church to pray for his eyesight. the preacher looked at him and said 'Brother, you're 80 years old!'

Sometimes... well, you know...

Re: Healing?
 

^^ This exactly. If healing is for all believers of faith,how would Christians ever die? Would we all have to go in horrible accidents?

It just doesn't mesh for me. But I really want to understand where they are getting this, IF it is scripturally based. If it is based on extra-Biblical resources...ugh. I don't hold stock in those.

Re: Healing?
 

I believe in healing, I have personally been healed and have known others as well.

That being said, it is a reality that not everyone gets healed every time. It was a reality back then in bible days, too.

Sometimes we seem to forget there is more to life than THIS life.

Re: Healing?
 

Healing was a big part of Christs ministry. He said we would do what he did if we believed. He said we would lay hands on the sick and they would recover.

This used to be a much bigger thing than it is now. One thing to consider in scripture is that an Apostles anointing is greater than ours.

The saints prayed for Dorcas and she died. Peter came and prayed and she came back alive.

Re: Healing?
 

Paul's words on the connection between proper observance of the Lord's supper and sickness in the church might be relevant as well. When brethren do not fully realise we are ONE BODY and live accordingly sickness seems to be the result...

Re: Healing?
 

Nothing "extra-biblical" required. Let me see if I can briefly outline the basics of the teaching as I understand (limited as it is!).

Exodus 15:26
26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.

Here the Lord introduces Himself to Israel as Jehovah-Rapha, Lit: The Lord our healer.

Exodus 23:25
25 And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

This was under the Old Covenant. We have a New Covenant, based on better promises. (Heb 8:6).

Psalm 103:1-3
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Note the connection made between forgiveness of sins and healing of ALL diseases. (This is important).

Isaiah 53:4-5
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
(Again, note the connection between forgiveness of sins and healing).
This was a prophecy give under the Old Covenant and is sometimes referred to as a description of the "suffering servant." We encounter it again in the New Covenant.

1 Peter 2:24
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
This is a direct reference to Isaiah 53. Note once more the distinction between forgiveness and healing and their link. Also, notice that Isaiah looking forward to the Cross said we "are healed." Peter looking back at the Cross says we "were healed." One a prophetic future tense, the other a fulfilled past tense.

(Those much better at Hebrew than I will demonstrate that the very language of the entire passage of Isaiah 53:4 is referencing bodily healing).
These two verses prove that healing is "in the atonement," on exactly the same basis as forgiveness of sins. Many contend that Peter is speaking of "spiritual healing." But look closely at another Scripture; this one from the life of Jesus. After the healing of Peter's mother-in-law, we find a most significant passage:

Matthew 8:16-17
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

The physical (not spiritual) healing was a direct fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 53.

This is a brief introduction to the Scriptural foundation for the teaching that healing is part of the finished work of Christ at Calvary. There is much, much more!

The scriptures clearly link forgiveness and healing. Why are we so willing to accept the one, yet so quick to reject the other? It is because we have been taught wrong for centuries. The legacy of the Pentecostal Movement as a whole is one of the restoration of healing as well as the many other contributions.

Most people, including me, are guilty of a tragic error concerning Scripture. When our experience doesn't match the Word of God, instead of bringing our experience in line with the Word, we explain away the Scriptures to accomodate our experience.

Our contention is that there are really only two things we need to resolve in our minds concerning healing:
1. Is healing the will of God?
2. Did God command believers to heal the sick?

If we could remove past experiences and teaching that negates the Scriptures, there would be no more hesitation or "doubt" about healing and deliverance than there is about "salvation."

(More information can be found at: http://www.jglm.org/index.php?option...=60&Itemid=161).

Re: Healing?
 

You bring up an important point! Unity IS vital and we do not have it yet!
Acts 2:42-46
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

They knew something we have forgotten. You are right to point this out.

However, let me throw something out there for your consideration.

Paul's words that you reference are found in: I Corinthians 11:23-30

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

There is much here that we could chew on all night and it would all be good. But allow me for a moment to consider this. There are two elements in the "Lord's Supper." The wine/blood and the bread/body. Now, I am in no way negating what you said above. I think it to be both valid and important.

But why two elements? Why Body AND Blood? It is His Blood that cleanses us from all sin. We all accept that without question. But what about the Body? What does that represent? The "Body of Christ?" Perhaps. That's certainly what is taught; what I have always believed. But the Church didn't even exist on the night of His betrayal and wouldn't come into existence until the day of Pentecost. Moreover, the Body of Christ, while certainly fragmented, it was never "broken FOR them." The "Body" which was "broken" for their benefit and ours, is the physical body of Jesus which was broken for us at the whipping post. Hence, Peter could say "by His stripes ye were healed."

Sin/sickness; Blood/Body; two problems/two solutions! Some of the old timers referred to it as "the two-fold cure." By not "discerning the Lord's Body" i.e., not properly understanding the healing provided by the Lord's
"broken body," many are weak and sick and a number have died.

Re: Healing?
 

I do quite a bit of Hospice work. You rightly point out that death is indeed a part of life. but how tragic that it so often comes through such awful means.
23 years I spent in the ICU and the Trauma Center. Death is a familiar part of my life as yours it would seem. I praise your work with those you help. I am sure you make a tremendous difference. That is awesome!

Consider something with me for a moment. (Bear with me, I'm not so good at this).
Death was never God's plan. It came as a result of sin! Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Earlier in the same Chapter he writes:

1 Corinthians 15:24-27
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

The Scriptures describe death as an enemy which will eventually be destroyed. We accept it as a natural and inevitable part of life. But it was never meant to be that way.

I believe in what you are saying. But to me (and maybe it's just me), it is simply an accommodation to our ignorance of how to walk in the authority and dominion that is ours as Children of God, In Christ. wish I had more answers. I wish everyone I prayed for on a vent or in a coma would wake up and breathe on their own. But that's not my reality.

I do know this however, since we have started ministering healing in this manner, as opposed to the way we were taught, our successes have increased dramatically.

In my own life in the past six months I have personally witnessed three absolute miracles. One woman was completely healed of thyroid cancer. A man in our Church was healed of Lymphoma. And Wednesday I received a call from a woman we had prayed with. Her sister has chronic COPD and was bedridden on oxygen and unable to walk with out a walker and then only for a few feet at a time. Two days after prayer she was standing at her sink washing dishes with neither oxygen or her walker. Her doctor's were "amazed."

I want this to be routine not "extraordinary." Unfortunately, I still have much to learn and there is still too much of ME in the way.

John 3:30--Now hangs over my desk:
He must increase, but I must decrease.

Re: Healing?
 

Sorry to be so long in getting back to you. Life encroaches at times:nod

Here is perhaps the best known passage:
Luke 4:38-39
38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.

The Greek word translated here as "rebuked," is epitimao. It means to censure or admonish; to straitly charge or rebuke. It is a verbal command. Jesus spoke to the fever, just as He would a person and it obeyed Him and left.

There are numerous other example of Him speaking to the demonic spirit causing the illness and when the demon left the person was healed.

Matthew 8:16
When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

The most familiar example, perhaps, is:Matthew 17:16-18
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

The disciples failure to properly deal with this encounter, earned them the strongest rebuke Jesus ever gave them. We are told to "speak to the mountain" instead we tend to speak to others and to God about our mountains and thus they remain.

Hope this helps some.

Re: Healing?
 

Good stuff, Larry! Thanks for sharing!!

Re: Healing?
 

Thanks. I'd forgotten about that fever.

Any other examples of Jesus speaking to illness? Are all the other cases speaking to demons that cause illness?

Do you speak to demons, when you are trying to heal someone?

Is it incorrect to ask God to heal someone?

Re: Healing?
 

T2W, maybe my mind works crazy here, but in cases like this, I wonder if the Lord looks at healing another way.

If the dictionary reads that healing literally means to make whole, perhaps the passing saint could be termed 'healed'...they are finally whole and at rest.

I think our perception of things is often based on our level of understanding and the teaching we have had.

Maybe if we could pause when God speaks a promise and consider that the answer may not show up quite like we think.

I don't know...maybe I'm off on this...just my thoughts...

Re: Healing?
 

I realize your post was addressed to T2W not me, but I feel strongly that this quote is worthy of repeating. You have said a mouthful with this.

If we as believers can ever grasp the Finished work of Christ and who we are in Him; What is ours as sons and daughters of God, we can change the world around us. Our little sphere of influence would become very different.

Thanks for a truly quotable post!

Re: Healing?
 

Timmy, off the top of my head I can't think of an example that didn't involve a demonic spirit but I will see what I can find later.

Yes, I often speak to demons if I believe I can truly identify that as the problem. Not all sickness is directly demonic in origin. Many times however, you can command the spirit of infirmity to leave and see dramatic results. Most of the time it's a gradual thing not a "miraculous" event.

As for asking god to heal someone? There are simply no examples of this in Scripture. god has given US the commission to bring salvation and healing to the world. It's sort of asking God to do something he has already told us to do. does that make sense?

Re: Healing?
 

It's false doctrine, and I believe, very hurtful and harmful to the body of Christ.

Re: Healing?
 

I fail to see how believing and acing on the Word of God can possibly be false doctrine?! Healing is as much a part of Scripture as Acts 2:38 and it is anything but hurtful and harmful to our Church and Community.

I admit, I am a bit surprised that such a comment would come from an Apostolic Leader.