OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment??
 

In another thread I said...

I've had friends with cancer who were seriously more disturbed by the fact that chemo was going to cause hair loss than they were about the fact that it was going to make them infertile, damage their organs, or shorten their lives. And I know at least one woman who opted for a less effective chemotherapeutic agent because it did not cause baldness.

And votes are anonymous so you don't have to worry about anybody being mean to you. :) Of course you could elaborate and get in all kinds of controversy if you like that kind of thing.
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Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Ya know, my Hawaiian shirts are a "glory to me!" yet I would gladly give them up if it meant saving my life. I've certainly never waved one over an offering plate in order to bless it.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

You are too quick... my poll wasn't ready yet. :)

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

More faith in condemnation of cut hair then healing??

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

If God gave doctors the wisdom to do brain surgery on a patient who would need their head shaved in order for that wisdom to be used, maybe the hair isn't as important to God as we may have once thought.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

OK... I've read this three times... and I still don't understand it. Help?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I do not believe the Bible teaches against the cutting of hair on a woman. There is nothing in the OT to support this, there are no laws against it. The only thing is the Nazarite vow which was for a man or a woman. The only people in the Bible that had "uncut" hair were men (Sampson, Samuel).

This is the problem with our movement, we have taken one scripture and misused it for our benefit. We have done the scriptures injustice for taking this one scripture and abusing it. Not only that, we twist the Greek word to fit our model. Paul left it at "let the hair grow long" for a reason.

That being said, it is neither right nor wrong to cut hair on a woman. I have heard the question from people, "how do you define what long is?" Fortunately, I do not have to, Paul took care of that when he wrote the Greek word for long hair which means tresses of hair (or what we would call a ponytail today). Ok sorry for the soapbox stance.


God bless

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Oh you cant read incomplete english? :)

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I am sorry, meant seems it's having more faith in condemnation about hair being cut/loss then having having faith in God is our healer. Going to doctor for chemo and such but worried about hair loss and being condemned over it? But no condemnation about going to doctor?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Not cutting Hair back then was more of a cultural thing, doesn't apply for today..? Right?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

This is also how I view the issue. Good post.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Second! Good post.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

My hair is cut into a chin-length bob. But it is my longer than my husbands. (he's bald)

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I stand very strongly against women having their hair cut and it is not just from one verse rather it is from a passage and also there is an interesting verse in revelation that mentions womens hair. (I add this only because it makes a distinction between womens and mens hair by specificly saying that it was like a womans hair) When it comes to a woman losing her hair because of medical treatment this is not the same as her getting it cut. The one is an unfortunate side affect whereas the other is a choosen disregard of scripture.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I agree with you there is a difference between a man's hair and a woman's hair. Man's hair is to be "cut short" as a sheep is shorn but a woman's hair is to be long (as in a ponytail). But the concept of "uncut" never appears in scripture except for the Nazarite vow.

If we are to define long as uncut on a woman then the same definition applies to a man. Meaning, we can define short on a man as long as he continues to cut his hair as the length does not matter. As I have always been told long is not a length, it is a condition. But unfortunately we have 2 definitions of long. One for a woman which is uncut (a condition) and one for man which is short and off the collar (a length).

This is not meant to be mean spirited, but I am just making an observation. I believe if a woman decides to not cut her hair, more power to her! And I respect that. But the same applies for a woman who cuts her hair. I just don't agree with the people that says it is right or wrong to do so.


God bless

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Shouldn't she purpose to choose to avoid the medical treatments that would cause her to be disgraceful?

You mean to tell me that the jw's have a stronger conviction in their false doctrine than we do in the TRUTH of God's Word?


If the uncut hair doctrine is what we make it out to be, how can there possibly be any exceptions?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I never said that it was an exception i simply said that the difference is seen in that if a woman loses her hair because of medical treatment that is differnt than a woman going out and cutting her hair. The one as i stated is an unfortunate side affect ( that does not always happen ) where as the other is disobedience.

To give a biblical example look at David when he fled from saul he and his men ate the shew bread from the temple which was only to be eaten by the priest and no where is he condemned for this not even when Jesus mentions this story does He condemn David but rather differentiates between rebellion and necessity.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

These are my views as well.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Since you make this distinction, how about if a woman has to CUT her hair to recieve medical treatment, say radiation or surgery?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

This thread sounds like a thread to either paint people in a corner or to justify someone's sin.... Or both. I would answer if this wasn't hypothetical but rather someone that honestly needed the answer for their personal situation.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

You may have missed my opening post? This has actually happened to many women I know... They struggle terribly with condemnation over cutting or losing hair related to medical procedures when they are already sick in their bodies and often terribly afraid as death seems much nearer when one has a cancer diagnosis.

It is BECAUSE OF this burden I've seen placed on women that I asked the question. So please do answer and help me and my Christian sisters know how we should view our hair when cutting it or sacrificing it for medical treatment might save our lives.

JD made a great point in that the JWs are, almost to a man, willing to refuse blood...at least until death is near, then a family member usually consents while the patient is unconscious. It's this little niggling doubt that they have that says 'what if I'm wrong and I kill my parent, sibling, child by not allowing them to have blood, even if I would refuse it for myself?'

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

They always say "in the mouths of two or three witnesses, let every word be established".....until they want to command no hair cutting. And, really, it never even says that once.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I have never heard of anyone in my short few years of life feel condemned about losing hair, cancer or not.......

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Really? I've met several women who had hair growing back in after chemo... first words out of their mouths to me (because I have 'the look') is something to assure me that they DID NOT cut their hair off.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

You must not have known any women who had been conditioned to believe they were going to hell if they didn't have "long" hair - whether uncut or not. I

have known several that went through losing their hair either to chemo or another physical condition. Some even wore wigs that were "long" hair so that it would appear they hadn't cut their hair. I know one particular minister's wife who had very expensive extensions put in her hair so that it would appear "long."

It has broken my heart to see the condemnation that some women have felt from this.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Very true Sweet Pea. I had several sisters in our last church that, for whatever reason, just did not grow amazing hair... whether it was just not very long or was sparse. Since all adult women were required to wear their hair up actual length could not be seen... But because they did not have the 'big buns' or fantastic updos of many of the other women, they would add hair pieces. Hair that clips into the natural hair or hair that is attached to a rubber band was cheap and easy to get and used to make hair look fuller and longer to enhance the 'Pentecostal' look. Of course that was just aesthetic and not related to illness but shows the mindset.

When my friend got colon cancer MOST of the talk between the women included whether or not she would lose her hair with treatment. She was Very concerned about it and was unwilling to cut it if it started to fall out with chemo. She had a plan to very tightly braid it and wait for it to all fall out together (sounded horrible to me) and then wear a wig. But the point is that this was even on her mind when she was facing losing her life (stage 4 so very possible) and should have been focused on so many other spiritual things.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I know someone going thru chemo now and she has had comments directed to her that since she trimmed her hair before all this, she did not have God's covering over her and protection so that is why all this is happening. So sad that we think this way, that God brings sickness on people because of cut hair?


God bless

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Some women get alopecia too. That would be a bad thing to have in the UPC.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

That's exactly what the 'uncut hair' folks believe!! LOL!

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I know a couple of women with this. Instead, they wear sinful wigs.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

My wife trimmed her hair, it was to her mid calves. She had painful knots on her neck from the weight. After trying massaging, We went to the dr, and he said get rid of the weight by cutting it. After 6 months of prayer towards it, she decided to cut it to lower back. Met w pastor and explained it all, he took her out of teaching Sunday school teen girl class, after teaching around 10 years. It helped a lot, and she continues to trim it primarily because of the knots, and has never been able to teach since. Few years ago.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I would take my wife and family and leave that fellowship.

Why haven't you done that yet?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

What would be your answer if this wasn't hypothetical?

If you were a Pastor and one of your female saints needed to shave her head for the sake of a brain surgery that would improve the quality of her life, what would you advise her to do?

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

If it were my wife needing the surgery...I wouldn't hesitate to say cut it off. I need my wife, cut hair or not.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

Pastor should have had no say in this matter, this was a decision for you and your wife. It was a health issue, that did not need the pastor's input, as was clearly displayed by his actions to remove her from teaching, etc. However, the OP doctrine had him in a no win situation. Too bad, reason and wisdom couldn't reign in this matter.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

The Greek verb, komao, had more than one meaning, depending upon the context of the reading passage, but the UPCI omits the definitions of a general "long" length in measurement and bases their doctrine against women cutting their hair (any length) on their preferred definition of "let the hair grow" found in Thayer and Smith in speaking of the Nazarite vow. In the context of a vow komao meant "uncut," but komao is NOT the Greek word for "uncut" hair. In both Latin and Greek there are 2 different words for "long-haired" and "uncut" hair. The Latin capillati (plural; -us, sing.) means "long-haired," and the Greek for this is kome the noun out of which komao is derived, also the synonym trixia. The Latin word for "uncut" is intonsi (-us, sing.) and the Greek for this is akeiroskomes, which is an epithet of Apollo and used by Homer in the Iliad in reference to the "long-haired Achaeans," the soldiers that destroyed Troy. They were famous for "long hair," but they CUT SOME OFF IT to honor the dead, which was a common practice of ancient Greek (and Roman) people. They still had komao even though they CUT it.

In my view if it were such a dreadful "sin" to cut our hair God wouldn't permit us to get cancers, period. And if it were such a "sin," why did God permit Roman authorities to cut the hair of early female Christians when Christians were under persecution? Such was the case with an early Christian martyr called Crispina. Also, the Greeks and Romans routinely shaved or shorn the heads of their female slaves. Only FREE women could grow long hair. Female slaves were recognized by their short cut hair -- the kepos -- to the jaw or cheek. Slaves were abundant in the Empire, and many slaves became Christians. If growing long hair were a requirement for salvation, how could a female slave have been saved?

Go here for the meaning of komao as defined by Greek language experts:

http://studyholiness.com/doc/Komao_blog.pdf

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

By your reasoning then a rape victim is guilty of fornication because she/he had premarital sex of if they are married then they gulity of adultery becuase they had extra marital sex. This is absurd no person can force you to sin by their actions against you. If christians women as slaves were forced against their will to be shaved then they committed no sin they did nothing wrong just as the rape victim is not guilty.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

:thumbsup

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

:happydance
Good for this pastor for removing her.

Thank God for real men of God who will stand for truth and not be swayed.

Re: OK to cut glorious hair for medical treatment?
 

I don't see the uncut hair supported by scripture